RE: Misogyny and BDSM

RE: Misogyny and BDSM (Full Version)

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LadyAngelika -> RE: Misogyny and BDSM (12/29/2009 8:35:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Loki45 quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol Il a peur de sa maman. Non, je juste n'aime pas les chiennes françaises stupides qui pensent qu'elles sont meilleures que le pays qu'elles se sont déplacé à. Wow Google translation garbled that up for you huh? Honnêtement, les enfants, soyez un peu plus sage!! ;-) - LA

Elisabella -> RE: Misogyny and BDSM (12/29/2009 8:36:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aynne88 Kittin here is the link to that thread before the cries of evil mean feminists were threatening to shoot people and callling Elisabella a Nazi. The whole thing was ugly, and poor Elisabella the helpless was quite free wheeling with the ad hominems as it were. I have always advocated the worst mysogynysts are fucking women themselves. Not all, of course, those ones. Of course just to be clear that I am talking about you Elisabella in regards to that particular thread , so you don't have to call me a "dumbfuck" and a "wierdofuck" again for not addressing you directly. Such odd insults. Whatever. Anyway kittin, it's quite a read. Almost as entertaining as the "tap tap tap" thread except for the tragedy that some women actually believe that there is no gender inequality, and no longer a need for evil feminism. Phylis Schafly woud be so proud.[:-]. http://www.collarchat.com/m_2847809/mpage_32/key_shaktisama/tm.htm#2888210 Except I'm neither Gorean nor a man. So for Kittin to say that it was the Gorean men who were coming in and blasting people for their beliefs is simply incorrect. The majority of people blasting each other for their beliefs were women. Feminist women and non-feminist women. There was a small percentage of men, both feminist and non-feminist, who were also criticizing the opposite side's views, but to say that thread is an example of misogyny is laughable.

kittinSol -> RE: Misogyny and BDSM (12/29/2009 8:38:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika quote: ORIGINAL: Loki45 quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol Il a peur de sa maman. Non, je juste n'aime pas les chiennes françaises stupides qui pensent qu'elles sont meilleures que le pays qu'elles se sont déplacé à. Wow Google translation garbled that up for you huh? Honnêtement, les enfants, soyez un peu plus sage!! ;-) - LA Oui Madame[&:] . N'empeche que c'est un vrai con[8D].

Elisabella -> RE: Misogyny and BDSM (12/29/2009 8:40:06 PM)
PS "misogyny" is not an antonym of "feminism" regardless of what some people might think. Feminism is a specific belief system that purports that in the public sphere men and women should be treated identically and have the same social expectations. Misogyny is hatred of women. One is about liking or disliking a gender, the other is about social and cultural perceptions of gender. One does not have to believe women are inferior to men to disagree with modern feminism.

RedMagic1 -> RE: Misogyny and BDSM (12/29/2009 8:41:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol Online translator failure. Heh. Did you see the thread where he tried to Wikipedia-calculus me to death? Sorry, Loki45, but I just don't appreciate when people perpetuate those misandristic stereoypes that men are dumb, pigheaded, and refuse to admit when they're outclassed. You wouldn't want to give any more ammunition to the feminists, now would you?

LadyEllen -> RE: Misogyny and BDSM (12/29/2009 8:42:47 PM)
Je souhaite que je pourrais comprendre meilleur la langue franglais.... E

Loki45 -> RE: Misogyny and BDSM (12/29/2009 8:43:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika Wow Google translation garbled that up for you huh? Doesn't matter to me. I'm not the one that said my eyes bleed from reading that.

Aswad -> RE: Misogyny and BDSM (12/29/2009 8:44:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aynne88 Apparently they missed the common philos memo because there is more infighting there than a Republican convention for fuck sake. Infighting? I fail to see how debating different approaches to a reasonably shared belief can be seen as infighting. Have you seen Catholics and Protestants go at it with guns and bombs? That's infighting. We are simply challenging each other with regard to our respective views on a particular flavor of belief, which is the typical male way of doing things, so you might expect the men- at the very least- to pick that particular way of debating in a subculture that thinks those instincts (and their feminine counterparts) should be valued. There's a fair bit of common ground, but the details vary, of course. As they should. No two humans are alike. Health, al-Aswad.

Loki45 -> RE: Misogyny and BDSM (12/29/2009 8:45:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol N'empeche que c'est un vrai con[8D]. Funny, I think the same thing every time I see you post.

Loki45 -> RE: Misogyny and BDSM (12/29/2009 8:47:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aynne88 Oops. I just want to get the same pay as his other management team ... While getting more time off, more coddling for failures, less layoffs, etc. Of course, I understand. quote: ORIGINAL: Aynne88 ...and not have to hear about my tits at the workplace. Oh of course. You don't want to hear about your tits because it interferes with commenting on a guy's ass. You also don't want to see bikini calendars because they clash with your half-naked men calendars. As I said, feminism is no longer what it started out as. Women don't want to be equal. They want their turns as oppressors. Kinda petty, if you think about it.

CaringandReal -> RE: Misogyny and BDSM (12/29/2009 8:48:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol quote: ORIGINAL: lally2 i think citing Gor as mysogeny is a bit wrong though, sorry. its their belief system, their kink and if theyre subs and slaves are happy who are we to question their Masters. They think there is a natural order for women to be underneath men. They also think that a woman hasn't found her own true nature until she is the servant of a man. They deplore progress and lament feminism: Gor is the ultimate in misogyny. Well, I've been reading the Gor forums recently, and to be fair, I think this is an overly general stereotype. For a group of people that supposedly think a woman "hasn't found her own true nature until she is the servant of a man" there is an awful lot of dicussion about (and from!) the "Free Women" Goreans. Were that subculture as deeply misogynistic as your imply, there would be no place for free women, I would think, nor would they be as respected as they clearly seem to to be. I believe there is a thread over in the gor subforum about free women in which many such individuals participate. It might be eye opening to read it if you genuinely believe a Gorean woman's only "role" is as a slave.

kittinSol -> RE: Misogyny and BDSM (12/29/2009 8:48:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RedMagic1 quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol Online translator failure. Heh. Did you see the thread where he tried to Wikipedia-calculus me to death? No, but I can only imagine too well - I actually think the guy's a masochist who gets off on trying to piss people off [8D]. quote: LadyE franglais Les chiens aboient, et la caravane passe :-) .

Loki45 -> RE: Misogyny and BDSM (12/29/2009 8:52:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol No, but I can only imagine too well - I actually think the guy's a masochist who gets off on trying to piss people off [8D]. Even if that were true (which it isn't), that would be better than a woman who gets off on speaking in other languages trying to appear somehow better than the rest......or a married woman who hands her number out to strange men on the internet while her husband is away. But I'm just sayin'....

Loki45 -> RE: Misogyny and BDSM (12/29/2009 8:53:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CaringandReal Well, I've been reading the Gor forums recently, and to be fair, I think this is an overly general stereotype. For a group of people that supposedly think a woman "hasn't found her own true nature until she is the servant of a man" there is an awful lot of dicussion about (and from!) the "Free Women" Goreans. Were that subculture as deeply misogynistic as your imply, there would be no place for free women, I would think, nor would they be as respected as they clearly seem to to be. I believe there is a thread over in the gor subforum about free women in which many such individuals participate. It might be eye opening to read it if you genuinely believe a Gorean woman's only "role" is as a slave. I think you're wasting your time. She's not going to open her eyes.

CaringandReal -> RE: Misogyny and BDSM (12/29/2009 8:54:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol quote: ORIGINAL: CaringandReal I don't know about the badge part. In other generic kink forums people with misogynistic leanings come and go. They are usually not well accepted by mainstream bdsm groups. I don't think what you're observing is particular to collarme. Remember, a couple vocal people on any topic can make it look like there's a lot going on, when it's really just a couple vocal people. But the fact that some men with misgynistic leanings are attracted to bdsm relationships and to submissive women is not new at all. For some it's an outlet for anger or tensions. Others are drawn to the submissive personality, which, even when she's relatively aggressive or "strong" is quite different in expression from the modern free woman's personality. Or both. The trouble with misogyny is that even if you hate the other gender, if you're straight, you're still sexually drawn to them, and you've got to come to some sort of compromise. The compromises can take many forms, of course. What you're seeing in this forum at the moment is a pretty mild and toned down expression of misogyny. There are places online, clubs sort of, where it's a lot more strongly expressed. If it makes you uncomfortable, well, be glad this is a moderated forum! :) That was spot on, actually. Thanks. :) Please don't take offence about what I said next about Gor. It's just what I have observed recently. I had similar beliefs (that a woman's only role in that cultue was as a slave) and was surprised to discover how prominent "free women" actually are in that subculture.

AnimusRex -> RE: Misogyny and BDSM (12/29/2009 8:54:53 PM)
FR to nobody in particular- You know, the nice thing about feminism, is that the word means pretty much anything one wishes it to mean. For instance, it is wielded by Sarah Palin, Jenna Jameson, Kate Millet, and Phyllis Schlafly with equal ardor and stridency. Each of them has a different meaning, and definition of it. The only possible common denominator is that women have wonderful unique qualities, and are deserving of respect. I say all this, only to show that ginning up a big "I hate teh feminazis" rant is as foolish as it is impotent. Yes, some feminist scholars are cranky men haters. Just imagine them locked in a room with Rush Limbaugh, and go about your day. I have written a few posts discussing my quarrels with classic First Wave feminism, but it hardly makes a ripple. Locking yourself in a battle with a phantom army of bra burning women's libbers just makes one sound angry and fearful. Pointing out a specific target is a bit more productive.

kittinSol -> RE: Misogyny and BDSM (12/29/2009 8:59:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Loki45 I rest my case: you're a troll of the highest order - my husband's absolutely fine with my talking to people from online, by the way (not that it's any of your business). Unlike you, I have nothing, but NOTHING, to hide :-) .

mnottertail -> RE: Misogyny and BDSM (12/29/2009 9:01:07 PM)
There are even Female slaveholders in Gor....not as common but they exist. And you might be surprised at who they are. Kajira: female slave Kajirus: male slave Just as in this Male dominated society, strong Females shine thru, so it is in that little slice of the cosmos. And misogyny has absolutely nothing to do with real Goreans. Goreans love them some women. Dirty little secret? (eat this post after you read it because the Goreans are going to kill me) but there are HOMOSEXUALS in Gor. Fuckin A!!!!! Go ask!!!! BTW search for dcnovice in gorean forums, that was a fucking hoot, everybody loves him, I don't know why he doesnt go back there, in fact thats gonna go in the best threads ever if I can find it. Ron

kittinSol -> RE: Misogyny and BDSM (12/29/2009 9:02:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CaringandReal quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol quote: ORIGINAL: CaringandReal I don't know about the badge part. In other generic kink forums people with misogynistic leanings come and go. They are usually not well accepted by mainstream bdsm groups. I don't think what you're observing is particular to collarme. Remember, a couple vocal people on any topic can make it look like there's a lot going on, when it's really just a couple vocal people. But the fact that some men with misgynistic leanings are attracted to bdsm relationships and to submissive women is not new at all. For some it's an outlet for anger or tensions. Others are drawn to the submissive personality, which, even when she's relatively aggressive or "strong" is quite different in expression from the modern free woman's personality. Or both. The trouble with misogyny is that even if you hate the other gender, if you're straight, you're still sexually drawn to them, and you've got to come to some sort of compromise. The compromises can take many forms, of course. What you're seeing in this forum at the moment is a pretty mild and toned down expression of misogyny. There are places online, clubs sort of, where it's a lot more strongly expressed. If it makes you uncomfortable, well, be glad this is a moderated forum! :) That was spot on, actually. Thanks. :) Please don't take offence about what I said next about Gor. It's just what I have observed recently. I had similar beliefs (that a woman's only role in that cultue was as a slave) and was surprised to discover how prominent "free women" actually are in that subculture. Hey :-) . I think that "Free Women" are still not seen as men's equal, but I could be wrong - it's true that most of what I know of Gor stems from what I have read on the boards of this very website. I still find the whole thing ridiculously misogynistic; but thank you for being civilised about it :-) .

kittinSol -> RE: Misogyny and BDSM (12/29/2009 9:03:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail Dirty little secret? (eat this post after you read it because the Goreans are going to kill me) but there are HOMOSEXUALS in Gor. Fuckin A!!!!! Go ask!!!! They obviously don't have enough hair salons over there - from the Gor novels covers, it looks as though the people seem to suffer from serious hirsutism. Time to get snippin', boys!

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