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Aswad -> RE: Misogyny and BDSM (12/30/2009 8:47:45 AM)
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ORIGINAL: Lucienne
Well, that's just a load of hogwash. A google search didn't show much use of the terms.
Probably correct. I may have accidentally coined the terms. But they're short and to the point, and as far as I can tell, they have conveyed what I intended by them to most readers. Will you argue that the terms are inaccurate, as coined, or that they aren't descriptive (under the premise that the cultural divide exists, of course)?
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Are there any remotely academic papers that approach gender socialization as different "cultures"?
Dr. Deborah Tannen has published a series of academic papers on this, yes.
It has been one of the main points of her articles, as well.
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Interesting, but still more hogwash. As for internet forums, at least on forums heavily populated with americans, the default assumption is that a poster is a straight white male unless otherwise indicated. (I believe there actually has been studies of that, but I can't find one at the moment.)
You may be right. I will not contest this point.
The offline aspect is not so easily dismissed, however.
It remains the case that, in pretty much every respect, social interactions with her present among men take on the character of men socializing with other men, not that of men socializing in a mixed group. She does not display the competitive instincts, which indicates those are a character trait, whether gender covariant or not. The resounding inability to comprehend the nuances of an all-female social interaction, and naturalness in an all-male interaction, is overall indicative of a cultural component. And she is not the only woman I know to whom this applies.
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Do I really post "like a man," or is there something else going on here?
Closer to it than many, I would say. You didn't register as any specific gender to me, which I've come to associate with women who are comfortable with- and understand- men and their way of interacting. If I had to guess, I would've said female. The different posters do register differently, though, and generally correctly. And, yes, I used to browse with the avatar pictures disabled, as those loaded from the personals server, which was frequently laggy or down.
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The ways that women build social bonds are not lost on me. I have close female friends. I suppose this means, by your thinking, that I've not fully assimilated "androculture." I think it means that I was raised as a feminist, encouraged to be comfortable with who I am, relate to people as people, and not get overly caught up in gender expectations.
That is what I've been advocating, as well. The gap between androculture and gynoculture is larger than what can be accounted for by actual gender differences, and I think it would be a good thing for the two to grow closer to each other, leaving behind the differences instead of the legacy. I think it's a positive thing that you have assimilated traits from both cultures, and are comfortable with both.
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I see that you have good intentions. But I disagree.
Disagree all you like.
It is arguably one of the most mature ways I have seen to address and defuse the recurring issue of who is right and who is wrong. And, as I'm sure you're aware, a lot of feminist literature has taken the stance that the male approach is inherently wrong. Just as a lot of male chauvinist literature has either taken the stance that the female approach is inherently wrong, or simply taken the male approach as the default to which the female approach is contrasted and compared- the yardstick if you will.
As an aside, unlike Kim, I do see the Gor books as male chauvinist literature, with a touch of gynophobia beneath the satirical elements (which are the origins, I would presume, of the notion that the books advocate misogyny; the satire originating with the contemporary feminist idea that marriage is slavery and that indeed sex is tantamount to it). Those books are the source of an interpretation, however, not representative of it. The Gorean subculture here on CM is a different beast than the literal cultures (plural intentional) of the books.
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Asian. Not "oriental." Using "oriental" makes you sound either really old or mildly uneducated. I have made friends with people from different cultures. It's really not even close to the experience of interacting with men of my own culture.
Pardon my use of an outdated expression in a second language. I take it your Norwegian is perfectly up to date?
And, obviously, while the example was exaggerated, if you have assimilated elements of both "sides" of the culture, you're going to find it about as easy to interact with either side as someone coming from a dual-ethnic background would find it to interact with their parents' cultures (leaving aside any issues of racism and prejudices against mixed heritages, which has been a real issue in some cultures).
I could quip that men are more forgiving in interactions with the opposite sex, of course. [:D]
Health,
al-Aswad.
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