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RE: Misogyny and BDSM - 1/4/2010 10:48:52 PM   
OrionTheWolf


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Well I do usually have a lot of patience, but everyone has limits. My comments will hopefully be latent landmines, that I do not look for any return on, but maybe some day they may benefit Psychonaut23. When I read, meet, or hear about people like him, it reminds me how I may have turned out had I made different decisions when at certain crossroads. Again it is likely a manifestation of the Mentor in me, or I may be just be deluding myself and satisfying my own ego. Not as deficit as Aswad, but insomnia seems to be common among certain groups of people, and I am one of them. I am having to re-read my words to make sure I am being clear. During these times though, during meditation I often come upon some pretty profound stuff. At least it is profound for me, since it is often introspection.

Have a great day!


quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1
You are more magnanimous than I, but perhaps you just have more patience with fools than I do. :)


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RE: Misogyny and BDSM - 1/4/2010 11:31:43 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
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From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Psychonaut23

I haven't done anything extraordinary to deserve to be ganged up on and given the treatment.

You know what I think I did wrong?  I think I'm guilty of being new and not wanting to play forum bitch for the amusement of this small group of extra nasty collered subs who seem to think they have to prove they are only submitting to one man by attacking any self-proclaimed dominant male who doesn't treat them like Dommes.

Slightly.

You're abrasive. Aggressively abrasive with a penchant for direct prods. Now, that can work when you're invariably always right...but not if you're just mostly right. Only one person I've ever encountered on an internet forum anywhere could actually pull off being quite as indifferently direct with precision snipes as you have been and that man was a flat out genius in every manner I can conceive of (anyone interested can feel free to Google "Victor Danilchenko").

And even if you are right all the time, being right must also include the understanding that your debate style will inherently push people in uncomfortable ways. I, myself, probably have a relatively decent reputation of being incisive from time to time but I probably balance it out with enough silly irreverence to keep from causing too many problems. Plus, I genuinely enjoy making real friends with intelligent people and eventually, being in that situation (as is the case in any social community) one develops enough friendships to where, even in the worst of times, you're not the only figurative chick in the gang bang.

If you care about how this website can be of any functional use to you, develop the art of finesse when it comes to being able to flatly demonstrate someone's flawed logic without resorting to direct insults and/or develop the discipline to secede from unwinnable discussions (whether they are so for logical or emotive reasons) and/or focus on more positive repartees with posters who give you enough leeway to plow into more pleasant territory (I've seen this come about with a discussion you had with Elisabella, for instance).



< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 1/4/2010 11:34:22 PM >


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I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
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RE: Misogyny and BDSM - 1/4/2010 11:54:27 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
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From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Psychonaut23

I hear what you're saying, thanks for the advice.  I'll consider it.

For what it's worth (concerning the "precision snipes"), you're pretty damn good at it.

Now, it's certainly not a PC thing to say...just as remarking at the quick-draw skills of an old western shooter might not have been since, ethically, you're praising him for his ability to swiftly kill or maim people (doesn't score well on the ethics tests), but there is a certain art form to it.

An old message board I use to be a part of actually held a mock "Flame War" elimination tournament once where people, in good fun, got to show off those types of talents and viewers got to vote the participants to the next round. Every now and then I think to myself that it would be fun playing in one of those again...and this side-discussion popped a reminder in my head.


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"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
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RE: Misogyny and BDSM - 1/5/2010 12:04:43 AM   
Aynne88


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Psychonaut23

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf
I never figured you were gone, just hid your profile, and pulled a dramatic flounce. Your communication skills still need some work, because if you are in a medium, that you are supposedly a professional at (writer), you are failing to convey what you actually mean.


I find that a very useless criticism.  I don't think anyone is really making any effort to understand what I mean, and I think many people are very intentionally reading my posts with malign intent, seeking to distort, twist and ridicule everything I say.

quote:

BTW, you are failing as a psychonaut as well, because you are creating an internal image, rather than discovering what is there. You seem to cast no "shadow", but in fact we all do. You have created the "Wise Old Man", when in fact the "Fox" is prevelant within the Wise Old Man's guise. This is at least what I am seeing from your posts, which sometimes is not a true measure of a person, but often it is what they really are without filters. If you are truly interested in being a soul sailor, might I suggest a bit of ego death to assist you. Some may not understand what I have said in this last paragraph, but if you are as educated as you portray yourself to be, you will know exactly what is being said.


I do understand what you're saying, but I think you're entirely out of line.  You don't know me, and to assume you have the sort of deep insight into me that you would need to tell me that I'm "failing as a psychonaut" from internet posts that you are reading with a fair amount of prejudice is an act both condescending and pompous. 

The problem is that if I act from an egoless space on an online forum, you know what happens?   It's called lurking.  Forever.  Everyone here has some bit of their ego on the line, and not a single one of you would enjoy being treated like I'm being treated.  And I'll believe you'd deal with it better when I see it happen to you.  I'm really not any more pompous than anyone else here, Mr. I Can See Into Your Soul Through The Internet.   I'm not any more sexist or crass that Aynne and her lovely "Psychotwat" monkier.  I'm not any more long winded or a posuer than Anwar.   I haven't done anything extraordinary to deserve to be ganged up on and given the treatment.

You know what I think I did wrong?  I think I'm guilty of being new and not wanting to play forum bitch for the amusement of this small group of extra nasty collered subs who seem to think they have to prove they are only submitting to one man by attacking any self-proclaimed dominant male who doesn't treat them like Dommes.

And I think there's a lot of dickheads here, like Ebony Wood, that know they can look dominant by attacking once the forum hags have selected a target.  It's whole lot of very obvious social politics and monkey-mob mentality.  And the people who got caught up in it should be far, far more embarassed and ashamed at joing in with a mob frenzy than I should be (and am) at getting defensive when I'm actually being attacked by a mob.

I want to be able to use this site for what its intended, and I want to be able to participate in the forums  -- and be just as snarky, stupid, and often wrong as anyone else -- so that I have an increased chance of meeting someone.

But I'm just a human  being.  If people here are going to choose to make me the forum bitch and start mocking me all the time over every piddly thing I say just because it's "funny" to make someone a pariah, then I'm pretty much fucked, aren't I?  I can't compete against a dozen people determined to make me look like a fool.  Just the fact that they agree with each as part of the process makes it appear true, and often the appearance of truth has more effect than what is true.

I just wish people would be aware of how they are acting collectively.  Not organized, but still collectively.  How would any of you feel being treated like this?

And fuck the first person who tries to say that a mob ganging up on one person for utterly piddly shit is fair or right.  You're a fucking creep if you think that.




Well, you did call me an unethical dumb bunny just for starters. Crass? Sure can be. Especially in the face of your bullshit. Hag? Please. That one I can't take, I am far from hag. I am also not a "collared sub" You insulated every woman on here by implying we were intellectually inferior and then you cry? Not a fucking chance that's going to fly. Nor is calling EbonyWood a dickhead trust me he just went out on you because you had it coming, not to impress "the forum hags." We already are with him because unlike you, he likes women. A lot.

Perfect night for insomnia, I log back on and you are talking about how you only do breathplay by special request. I'll never sleep now.

_____________________________

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)



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RE: Misogyny and BDSM - 1/5/2010 12:04:53 AM   
Lucienne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: Psychonaut23

I hear what you're saying, thanks for the advice.  I'll consider it.

For what it's worth (concerning the "precision snipes"), you're pretty damn good at it.


I'd like to thank you two for having this conversation on the forums and not via PM.

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RE: Misogyny and BDSM - 1/5/2010 12:05:21 AM   
EbonyWood


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Psychonaut23

[And I think there's a lot of dickheads here, like Ebony Wood, that know they can look dominant by attacking once the forum hags have selected a target. 


Thank you.
 
To be fair, I had you pinned as an obnoxious twat well before anyone needed to point the way.
 
I just gave you a chance is all. (I even addressed you directly in a separate thread, but you didn't respond).
 
And yet time after time after time with each posting you became more obnoxious, abrasive, self aggrandising and paranoid. You claim foul after painting a huge target on your back and now you are crying "Why me?"
 
Of course people have picked on you - you deserve it. You even argued through any number of posts that you didn't call someone an idiot when you clearly had. What a gutless wonder.
 
It takes one post to tell you that you are an idiot and this is it.
 
Anyone who can say that a police force by it's very existence is unethical but cannot see that that same police force stops, or tries to stop someone from sticking a knife in your throat, is, frankly, an idiot.
 
I personally think you have had a life of rejection that has fostered some thinly disguised hate at any number of institutions, which you try to rationalise into some kind of pseudo intellectual stance. It doesn't wash, Chuckles, and stinks from a mile off.
 
Frankly you've had more chances to come across as anything but a total asshole and people have been as tolerant as they need to be, given some of the shit you've posted.
 
So, put your Darth Vader suit on and go and try and get yourself a subbie. If she can get a word in between your vacuous babbling then consider yourself a lucky man.
 
I don't give a flying fuck if you respond to this or what you say if you do.
 
Dissect the crap out of it and post little comments to each section. It's a weird hobby, but whatever fucking rocks your boat.

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RE: Misogyny and BDSM - 1/5/2010 12:12:26 AM   
Aynne88


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Careful. He get's all crazy when you call him "twat". .

What's up Ebony? I have insomnia, tell me a bedtime story, about a parlor, a spider, and a fly. Oh and a bad little redheaded girl with a big can of raid. Can you spank me while you tell it? lol.

_____________________________

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)



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RE: Misogyny and BDSM - 1/5/2010 12:13:35 AM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucienn

I'd like to thank you two for having this conversation on the forums and not via PM.

Your infatuation with villainizing is only going to bolster his position in this debacle.

Unless you were trying to help him by showing how someone can make a rude comment under the table and not get the reaction he's gotten from his snipes. In which case, kudos!




_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees


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RE: Misogyny and BDSM - 1/5/2010 12:15:52 AM   
NihilusZero


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From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88

He get's all crazy when you call him "twat". .

If he gets even more aggressive and starts calling people names again, you've got a point.

If he points our how it's yet another example of hypocrisy, however...


_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees


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RE: Misogyny and BDSM - 1/5/2010 12:21:04 AM   
WyldHrt


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I was going to attempt an explanation of why certain new folks melt right in like they've been here since Day 1, and others encounter the difficulties Psycho implied that he has had on the various forums he has joined, but it would be a waste of keystrokes that would likely generate a reply about "ass kissing" or some such thing.
As he seems to be listening, or at least considering, what Nihilus has said, I will just leave it be.
~ Forum Hag Wyld


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RE: Misogyny and BDSM - 1/5/2010 12:21:06 AM   
Aynne88


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Nihilus, I get you are truly trying to help him, and you are a better person than I. I don't give a fuck anymore, he insulted far too many of my friends here repeatedly and went after me with a creepy vengeance, I'm with EbonyWood and SexyRed on this one. I don't give a fuck. Sorry, well not sorry, but yeah, no olive branches for him. He needs some therapy, and soon before he turns into Michael Douglas' character in falling down. Issues galore and anger...wow. It's scary. The sad scary kind.

_____________________________

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)



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RE: Misogyny and BDSM - 1/5/2010 12:22:41 AM   
Lucienne


Posts: 1175
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucienn

I'd like to thank you two for having this conversation on the forums and not via PM.

Your infatuation with villainizing is only going to bolster his position in this debacle.

Unless you were trying to help him by showing how someone can make a rude comment under the table and not get the reaction he's gotten from his snipes. In which case, kudos!





Nope. I just think it's sweet that you're stepping in and mentoring him on the finer points of being a socially acceptable (dare I say adored) pompous ass. If only you'd intervened earlier, you could have saved him so much drama.

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RE: Misogyny and BDSM - 1/5/2010 12:25:57 AM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
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From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88

Nihilus, I get you are truly trying to help him, and you are a better person than I. I don't give a fuck anymore, he insulted far too many of my friends here repeatedly and went after me with a creepy vengeance, I'm with EbonyWood and SexyRed on this one. I don't give a fuck. Sorry, well not sorry, but yeah, no olive branches for him. He needs some therapy, and soon before he turns into Michael Douglas' character in falling down. Issues galore and anger...wow. It's scary. The sad scary kind.

I'm not even saying you owe him anything or that you are wrong to have made any personal decisions you have. I get into snippy debate skirmishes every now and then but I nearly always try to make clear that I do not enjoy and have no intention of actively and aggressively belittling people.

And I guess you must be kinda right...since I always felt awfully bad for and mostly sided with Michael Douglas' character in that movie

Although, I don't think I'm necessarily trying to "help him" any more than I "help" other forum posters in threads where I try to offer sincere advice.


< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 1/5/2010 12:30:49 AM >


_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees


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RE: Misogyny and BDSM - 1/5/2010 12:28:37 AM   
EbonyWood


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88

He get's all crazy when you call him "twat". .

If he gets even more aggressive and starts calling people names again, you've got a point.

If he points our how it's yet another example of hypocrisy, however...



History has already condemned him on that point NZ. Even a cursory examination of previous posts shows that he went that route WAY before anyone else, usually when he was flapping around in a quagmire of an argument of his own making.
 
FWIW , I posted to him a week or so on another thread almost identically to what you have here, reasonably pointing out abrasiveness etc. Blind Freddy could see he was heading for the cliffs with his attitude and manner.
 
My final point on this whole fucking mess is - Didn't he throw the toys out the pram and state he was done? I think that says something for the masochist theorists, and the validity of his word.

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RE: Misogyny and BDSM - 1/5/2010 12:34:30 AM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EbonyWood


History has already condemned him on that point NZ. Even a cursory examination of previous posts shows that he went that route WAY before anyone else, usually when he was flapping around in a quagmire of an argument of his own making.
 
FWIW , I posted to him a week or so on another thread almost identically to what you have here, reasonably pointing out abrasiveness etc. Blind Freddy could see he was heading for the cliffs with his attitude and manner.
 
My final point on this whole fucking mess is - Didn't he throw the toys out the pram and state he was done? I think that says something for the masochist theorists, and the validity of his word.

I've been a quiet peeker of your comments before and know it wouldn't likely be a normal thing for you to get that frustrated with someone. I'm not in disagreement with your points.

And I wasn't here a week ago! Excuse meeeee for being fashionably late.


_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees


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RE: Misogyny and BDSM - 1/5/2010 12:41:08 AM   
sophiesback


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*swoons*  i love it when You fellas make sense n stuff

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RE: Misogyny and BDSM - 1/5/2010 12:43:25 AM   
WyldHrt


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quote:

I'm not even saying you owe him anything or that you are wrong to have made any personal decisions you have. I get into snippy debate skirmishes every now and then but I nearly always try to make clear that I do not enjoy and have no intention of actively and aggressively belittling people.

As someone who has been in debates with you, IIRC sometimes snippy , I can say that I never felt personally attacked, and was never called nasty names. I don't believe I did so in your direction, either (well, maybe in my head when you zinged me a good one, lol). All in all, I'd be more than happy to meet up and go for a beer and good conversation if we were in the same area. To me, this is the mark of productive debate with other forum members- the ability to disagree and maybe argue, but still recognize the other's opinion as valid.
People here on both sides of the kneel are judged by not only what they say, but how they say it.


_____________________________

"MotherFUCKER!" is NOT a safeword!!"- Steel
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RE: Misogyny and BDSM - 1/5/2010 12:51:38 AM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WyldHrt

...but still recognize the other's opinion as valid.

Now, now, now...don't get people's hopes up! I'm not freely considering anyone's opinions valid.

Doesn't mean I can't still happily hang out with them and have a drink, though.

(P.S.: You have a CM message!)



< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 1/5/2010 12:53:52 AM >


_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees


NihilusZero.com

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RE: Misogyny and BDSM - 1/5/2010 12:55:16 AM   
WyldHrt


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quote:

Now, now, now...don't get people's hopes up! I'm not freely considering anyone's opinions valid.

Damn, thought maybe that would slip by you.
quote:

Doesn't mean I can't still happily hang out with them and have a drink, though.

Anytime you find yourself in SoCali!


_____________________________

"MotherFUCKER!" is NOT a safeword!!"- Steel
"We've had complaints about 'orgy noises'. This is not the neighborhood for that kind of thing"- PVE Cop

Resident "Hypnotic Eyes", "Cleavage" and "Toy Whore"
Subby Mafia, VAA Posse & Team Troll!

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RE: Misogyny and BDSM - 1/5/2010 1:04:10 AM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Status: offline
quote:

I find that a very useless criticism.  I don't think anyone is really making any effort to understand what I mean, and I think many people are very intentionally reading my posts with malign intent, seeking to distort, twist and ridicule everything I say.


No. I was actually focusing on responding and refuting what you were saying up until the "Truthfully I only implied she was an idiot" BS. That was when I gave up.

Reading that you think that implying someone's an idiot is any nicer than saying the exact phrase "you are an idiot" I lost all will to try to play nice.

(in reply to Psychonaut23)
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