RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman

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vincentML -> RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman (1/1/2010 7:07:54 PM)
quote: To the submissive men, have you ever felt torn about this? Have you ever honestly felt you were over fetishizing a Domme? Why do you think that was? How did you work through this? If applicable, how did a Domme help you work through this? For me, Lady Angelika, the question overflows with accusations and guilt. With all respect to you it is like a woman asking why do men look at my breasts when there is so much more to me as a human being? I have skimmed through many of the posts and they seems to fall within the parameters of expectations you declared in your OP. I would like to suggest that the question can be more readily dealt with not within the psychosexual realm of human relations but as a problem of communication of meaning. My thought is we do not communicate ideas only by linear language set in print. First impressions and even lasting impressions both in advertising and in BDSM are conveyed most powerfully by graphics - by drawings and photos. To keep this short and to the point, it strikes me that you are asking the wrong question. I think it is a given that submissive men are by the nature of their brain construction and cognition quite naturally attracted by various images of Dominant Women and that Dommes in turn quite naturally (having the same congition structure as men) advertise themselves by employing those images. I am not suggesting that this is a form of seduction to which men are victimized, although I find that a rather lovely thought. "Too weak to break the chains that bind me, I need no shackles to remind me, I'm just a prisoner of (D/s) love." lol I wish to suggest it is the way the mind works. It is very powerful and economical to send meaning by graphic symbols. I am suggesting that over fetishization is an improper characterization for a normally accepted means of advertising. Once that premise is accepted, the question then becomes how do the Domme/sub couple get beyond the wants and expectations created by the advertising (again, which I view as normal and economical) to communications where they can build a mutually satisfying acceptance of each other's humanities, exceptionalities, flaws, etc and establish a relationship in which love will endure?

VeryMercurial -> RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman (1/1/2010 7:09:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pollux quote: ORIGINAL: seekingOwnertoo Have W/we asked a different question .... if a man was soooo hungry .... wouldn't he learn to become a better hunter? Good question... And the same could easily be asked of the women here, too. I wonder how many threads & posts we've had from female dominants bemoaning the fact that male subs aren't interested in them as human beings? And always -- ALWAYS -- 100% of the blame lies with the men. "Help! My inbox is filled with email from horny wankers!" "Help! The men I date don't see me as a whole person!" "Help! My sub only sees me as a life-support system for their fetish!" You'd think after a while that they might consider that the problem may not lie entirely with the men. Heaven forfend the women turn inward for a nanosecond, and consider changing themselves, or their strategy. [sm=yourock.gif]

LadyPact -> RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman (1/1/2010 7:13:32 PM)
OK. A different take on the 'how they look in the photo' part. I don't exactly use this as a dating site. I do, however, use it as a connection site. That means that I meet all sorts of people in various locations. When I can, I go to BDSM clubs. I also attend rather large events that have been held in major cities. We're talking multiple hundreds, and in the case of Folsom, thousands of people. For major events, it's not unusual for other folks from CM to be going to the same place. That's how I've met a lot of folks from here. Now, is it easier to try to find a person who is in a crowd with a rough description (5'2", red hair) or is it easier to say I'll be wearing that outfit?

LadyAngelika -> RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman (1/1/2010 7:18:55 PM)
quote: I wonder how many threads & posts we've had from female dominants bemoaning the fact that male subs aren't interested in them as human beings? And always -- ALWAYS -- 100% of the blame lies with the men. "Help! My inbox is filled with email from horny wankers!" "Help! The men I date don't see me as a whole person!" "Help! My sub only sees me as a life-support system for their fetish!" You'd think after a while that they might consider that the problem may not lie entirely with the men. Heaven forfend the women turn inward for a nanosecond, and consider changing themselves, or their strategy. I never said the problem is entirely with the men. Time and time again I wrote through out this post that I don't think the problem lies only with the men. In my OP I said we shouldn't consider that men are wankers because they are seduced by beautiful pictures. Did you not read any of this? No, you are on the same rant you were 5 years ago when I crossed you on these forums: Oh the evil succubus that are the Dominant women. And when I asked you back on post 121 for your perspective in PM on how I might adjust the writing in my text to convey the fact that I was a naturally dominant woman, demonstrating willingness to adapt, to consider the other's point of view and to a certain degree opening myself up to critique, you responded in post 123 with an open attack on my avatar. So I guess maybe you just don't read period. You didn't read my request for a private critique and you didn't read the words in my profile and got caught up all in my profile picture. This speaks volumes!! - LA

PeonForHer -> RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman (1/1/2010 7:19:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact Now, is it easier to try to find a person who is in a crowd with a rough description (5'2", red hair) or is it easier to say I'll be wearing that outfit? I tied a blue balloon to my ex-GF's bra-strap at a rock concert once, LP. I had no trouble spotting it above the heads of everyone in the crowd. Not relevant to your point, I know, but I think this trick might be helpful to you in the future.

LadyPact -> RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman (1/1/2010 7:25:43 PM)
LOL and Happy New Year, peon! I think My problems with that would be: 1) Being in the environment where too many sadist with toys about (ready to pop said balloon). 2) Exactly how does one tie a balloon to a corset? I would have to think by the strings in the back, but that's almost as bad as trying to tie the corset by yourself.

LadyAngelika -> RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman (1/1/2010 7:26:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: To the submissive men, have you ever felt torn about this? Have you ever honestly felt you were over fetishizing a Domme? Why do you think that was? How did you work through this? If applicable, how did a Domme help you work through this? For me, Lady Angelika, the question overflows with accusations and guilt. I admit, it might have come from a place of some frustration. But I let the OP sit with me for a few days before posting in order to refine the question in the hopes that it would inspire solutions and not rants. My apologies to you if this came across with accusations and guilt. I hope that you will feel my sincerity when I tell you that it was not my intention. quote: With all respect to you it is like a woman asking why do men look at my breasts when there is so much more to me as a human being? I have skimmed through many of the posts and they seems to fall within the parameters of expectations you declared in your OP. Because this debate goes beyond BDSM and extends itself to the world at large. quote: I would like to suggest that the question can be more readily dealt with not within the psychosexual realm of human relations but as a problem of communication of meaning. My thought is we do not communicate ideas only by linear language set in print. First impressions and even lasting impressions both in advertising and in BDSM are conveyed most powerfully by graphics - by drawings and photos. While that is a fairly accurate statement, many put a lot of value into words. Most of the compliments I get from intelligent men here are on the things that I write. quote: To keep this short and to the point, it strikes me that you are asking the wrong question. That is entirely plausible. I never claimed to know all the answers, even less all the questions ;-) quote: I think it is a given that submissive men are by the nature of their brain construction and cognition quite naturally attracted by various images of Dominant Women and that Dommes in turn quite naturally (having the same congition structure as men) advertise themselves by employing those images. I am not suggesting that this is a form of seduction to which men are victimized, although I find that a rather lovely thought. "Too weak to break the chains that bind me, I need no shackles to remind me, I'm just a prisoner of (D/s) love." lol I wish to suggest it is the way the mind works. It is very powerful and economical to send meaning by graphic symbols. But when it comes to real life, the ego will keep the id in check because life goes on and we have to find life partners that we can live with. quote: I am suggesting that over fetishization is an improper characterization for a normally accepted means of advertising. Once that premise is accepted, the question then becomes how do the Domme/sub couple get beyond the wants and expectations created by the advertising (again, which I view as normal and economical) to communications where they can build a mutually satisfying acceptance of each other's humanities, exceptionalities, flaws, etc and establish a relationship in which love will endure? Agreed. - LA

WyldHrt -> RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman (1/1/2010 7:29:02 PM)
quote: Being in the environment where too many sadist with toys about (ready to pop said balloon). It would be a wicked target [:D]

LadyAngelika -> RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman (1/1/2010 7:30:17 PM)
quote: I don't exactly use this as a dating site. I do, however, use it as a connection site. I see it as both. It is primarily a match-making site because you have the whole "Actively Seeking:" section, which I guess you can leave blank or set to Friends Only. I have however made many friends here and for that I'm totally grateful! - LA

CougarStud -> RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman (1/1/2010 7:40:37 PM)
What if women only did the same grooming and personal care that males traditionally did. Why do women dress up, wear make-up and high heels and men do not wear cod-pieces or other adornments? And whose fault is it that a young male has a experience with a female that is "dolled up" and starts to develope a fetish or sexual objectifiaction of females in an over exaggerated example of the female style of dress? Is it a childs fault that something got sexualized while it was yound and no it is a sexual triger? I mean who the heck designed that male mind and way of being??? Maybe thatt is who we should blame instead of the men! .

LadyAngelika -> RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman (1/1/2010 7:42:47 PM)
Peon! <growls all Domly like> I think you need to change that profile picture of yours because when I look at it, that smooth tanned back, the curves over those firm buttocks, I forget all the intelligent things you ever posted and simply see you as a hunky beatable piece of man meat! - LA

PeonForHer -> RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman (1/1/2010 7:43:16 PM)
ORIGINAL: LadyPact LOL and Happy New Year, peon! And to you, LP. I hope it's a good one for you. [;)]

PeonForHer -> RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman (1/1/2010 7:46:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika Peon! <growls all Domly like> I think you need to change that profile picture of yours because when I look at it, that smooth tanned back, the curves over those firm buttocks, I forget all the intelligent things you ever posted and simply see you as a hunky beatable piece of man meat! - LA Thank you, Lady A blush. Maybe, one day . . . Unfortunately, though, I'm still single and beating my own meat. [:(]

omkfY -> RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman (1/1/2010 7:55:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika And when I asked you back on post 121 for your perspective in PM on how I might adjust the writing in my text to convey the fact that I was a naturally dominant woman, demonstrating willingness to adapt, to consider the other's point of view and to a certain degree opening myself up to critique, you responded in post 123 with an open attack on my avatar. I think Your profile is quite clear in describing the type of male submissive You seek, and my inclination is that any misunderstanding probably lies squarely on the shoulders of the men who fail to read it (which would indicate that they probably would never be good matches for You). How many of these undesirable men send first messages containing "krimson?" If You are hoping for less of these incompatibles to write in the first place, my only suggestion would be to tone down the kink slightly (an example would be simply removing "as well as tying up my submissive partner, torturing him to my delight with a variety of instruments, including canes, whips, clamps, my hands and teeth even"). If You leave it in (and I think You should), I would just suggest fixing the minor grammatical mistake that follows: "he can't take no more."

LadyAngelika -> RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman (1/1/2010 7:55:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer Unfortunately, though, I'm still single and beating my own meat. [:(] Oh you nasty little chap!! ;-) - LA

LadyAngelika -> RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman (1/1/2010 8:02:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: omkfY quote: ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika And when I asked you back on post 121 for your perspective in PM on how I might adjust the writing in my text to convey the fact that I was a naturally dominant woman, demonstrating willingness to adapt, to consider the other's point of view and to a certain degree opening myself up to critique, you responded in post 123 with an open attack on my avatar. I think Your profile is quite clear in describing the type of male submissive You seek, and my inclination is that any misunderstanding probably lies squarely on the shoulders of the men who fail to read it (which would indicate that they probably would never be good matches for You). Thank you very much for this feedback. quote: If You are hoping for less of these incompatibles to write in the first place, my only suggestion would be to tone down the kink slightly (an example would be simply removing "as well as tying up my submissive partner, torturing him to my delight with a variety of instruments, including canes, whips, clamps, my hands and teeth even"). Nope. Wankers will come even if I have a blank profile. I'm quite good with the delete/block function and I'm thick skinned. It doesn't even phase me at all. The point of this thread was not at all in any way shape or form a complaint against things I cannot change, ie: wankers. It is about the things that I hope can change and to which I want to contribute to, which is 1) how do we get passed the supercial side of BDSM and get real images of real Dominant women out there that don't compromise their desire to express their sexuality, sensuality, personality and intelligence and 2) is there are way to work with men who are still in the immature stages of viewing this as pure fetish and helping them grow. quote: If You leave it in (and I think You should), I would just suggest fixing the minor grammatical mistake that follows: "he can't take no more." Thank you. French is my first language and I didn't study in English until University. While I think I have a good vocabulary, I have inherent flaws in my grammar. I will see if I can find someone to give it a good edit. It has been in a state of flux the last few weeks as I mull over it. - LA

SDFemDom4cuck -> RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman (1/1/2010 8:14:18 PM)
LA I do editing for a living freelance at the moment..if you would like I can help you with that. Just PM me.

LadyAngelika -> RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman (1/1/2010 8:46:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SDFemDom4cuck LA I do editing for a living freelance at the moment..if you would like I can help you with that. Just PM me. Thanks Jo! When I'm happy with the overall message, I'll surely send you a little note. I truly appreciate the help. For the moment, I'm still working on it. - LA

omkfY -> RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman (1/1/2010 8:57:19 PM)
quote: 1) how do we get passed the supercial side of BDSM and get real images of real Dominant women out there that don't compromise their desire to express their sexuality, sensuality, personality and intelligence and 2) is there are way to work with men who are still in the immature stages of viewing this as pure fetish and helping them grow. 1) As has been mentioned earlier, I think it's primarily a maturity issue. Things could be helped (if only slightly at first), but the collective reminder by Dommes that they are not objects and, like all people, are multi-faceted. The temptation to just ignore the offending party and move on is high, but I see it more like someone telling non PC jokes in the workplace. A stern "that is not acceptable" will often quickly change the behavior (and eventually thoughts), where ignoring the issue just seems to lead to the "emperor has no clothes" phenomenon. 2) As a relatively young member of the site, I would love to think so. But the cynic in me thinks that most of the time it will probably involve a lot more effort than most Dommes are willing to put in, so unless there is something otherwise extraordinary about the immature man, it might be best to point out the unacceptable behavior/attitude and leave him to his inevitable failures. He will either grow tired of trying (a testament to the depth of his submissiveness), or he will actively seek out ways to improve himself (with ample information & opportunity offered here on CM).

seekingOwnertoo -> RE: The Over-Fetishization of the Dominant Woman (1/1/2010 9:09:11 PM)
Frankly Lady Angelika ... i am enormously impressed by Your command of the English Language ... i would have never known it was Your second Language! Moreover, i am thinking ... Your profile is clearly written ... and communicates a lot more ... than pure kink. The typo's ... if they really exist ... would require an expert to nail down .... because i have seen a lot of profile's that are really badly written ... by people who speak English as their only language ... (and yes, i just misspelled English ... LOL ... and had to correct it). That said ... does anyone realize the ubiquity of a certain Winged Wheel emblem ... began in a Montreal Health Club? Yes, that is off topic on this thread ... but i would like to see the English majors respond ... LOL and ROFL ... Because in this case ... i think ... the Lady has a well written and articulate profile ... one that puts others to shame!

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