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RE: Is your D/s disposition mostly rooted in you Id, yo... - 12/31/2009 2:01:10 PM   
sweetsub1957


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
So let me bring this to WIITWD. I ask the following questions: Is your D/s disposition mostly rooted in you Id, your Ego or your Super-Ego?

I'm not sure if I'm understanding this right or not, but I will try.  If You are asking where my submissiveness comes from, insofar as I understand those terms, I would answer all three.....but my submissiveness is such a strong inborn drive in me that it comes from my Id.  Then my Ego finds ways for me to act on & carry out my submissiveness, and my Super-ego causes me to be as perfectionistic as possible about it. 

All I know is that submission is a need & a craving from deep within me and I am consciously trying to find the right Person to give it to.

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RE: Is your D/s disposition mostly rooted in you Id, yo... - 12/31/2009 2:03:56 PM   
sweetsub1957


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


Its a little counter-intuitive to think that anyone's sex drive would be commanded by the super-ego.

D/s and bdsm about more than just sex though........at least for some of us.

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RE: Is your D/s disposition mostly rooted in you Id, yo... - 12/31/2009 2:09:04 PM   
Dominasola


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetsub1957

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


Its a little counter-intuitive to think that anyone's sex drive would be commanded by the super-ego.

D/s and bdsm about more than just sex though........at least for some of us.


And some people have D/s relationships that are completely platonic, too.

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RE: Is your D/s disposition mostly rooted in you Id, yo... - 12/31/2009 2:21:14 PM   
AAkasha


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An interesting topic!   I've done so much self-analysis about why/how I am kinky and "femdom"  - yet sometimes I still don't really understand it all.  I don't know how it is for other kinky people, but a wrench in the analysis is simply that my mood toward kink may vary on a day by day basis (how much I want/need/lust for it), but my "dominant demeanor" remains consistent.  My personality, and my preference to be in a "woman-led" relationship is core to my personality, separate from my sexuality, and I sometimes wonder if it is absolutely UNRELATED to my kinkiness.

My sadistic urges are cyclical, primal, predatory, physical, sometimes arbitrary and often times outright compulsive.  When I am at a peak of my "femdom hunger," my conscience keeps me in check.  My lusts to see a man helpless, surrendering, bound & helpless, suffering (willingly) for me are very strong; if I didn't have ethics, morality or self preservation, I could see myself responding to these lusts in a variety of unhealthy ways.  These kinds of behaviors are repulsive to me, though, so I keep it all in check without much angst - and, over the years, I have found that "not scratching the itch the moment I have it" doesn't do anything more than frustrate me a bit, and make it EVEN BETTER when I get it.

If I believed in such a thing as vampires, I'd think I was one in a past life (another thing I don't really believe in.)   Case in point, on any given day I could be sitting in a room full of men I find attractive on some level, and I think nothing of it.  Put me in the exact same room on a day where my "femdom engine is revving," and I am hopelessly distracted by the scent of a cologne, the way a man moves his hands, how his breathing looks beneath his tailored shirt, how his hair falls slightly into his eyes, every time he licks his lips - you name it - and it all ties back into urges to have him submit to me, wondering what his surrender would look/taste/sound/feel like, and other things.  A man that I may one day just regard as "pleasant and handsome" becomes "hot prey" and I have to check myself to not act on any urges (or, alternatively, if appropriate, start the process of seeing if I can actually get him to submit - and I can be patient about that).    Why on earth is this "mood" a shifting one? I have no idea.  I just know it's more prone to happen when I am not getting enough sleep, under a lot of pressure or deadlines, feeling stress over something impending -- and, it's further magnified by "the last time I exercised my femdom urges." 

And when I "exercise them" - the more thoroughly and intensely I do so, the more the urges subside for some time until the cycle starts all over again. These lusts are very compulsive and primal, but are kept in check by my conscience and self preservation, as well as my empathy for other people.

I have no idea if that make sense :)

Akasha


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RE: Is your D/s disposition mostly rooted in you Id, yo... - 12/31/2009 2:22:36 PM   
wisdomtogive


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Sex can very much be part of the super-conscious, or even ego, it can transcend..and it usually does. At least been my experience. Be it vanilla or kink, it always transcends consciousness to a new level. That is the greatest thing for me about it. ....smiling here big time

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RE: Is your D/s disposition mostly rooted in you Id, yo... - 12/31/2009 2:39:47 PM   
xssve


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


Its a little counter-intuitive to think that anyone's sex drive would be commanded by the super-ego.
It's pretty much the norm in Narcissism and sexual psychopathy - the former is about validation of the superego through sexual conquest, the latter may possibly be revenge on a distorted and punishing superego that has suppressed the Ego (paleomammalian cortex), at least when it comes to acting out on their impulses. These people are often very selective about their victims.

Also very handy for marketing Viagra, and anything else that promises to make you even incrementally more attractive to the opposite sex for that matter.

In fact I'd say most peoples sex drive is pretty tied up in their superego identity, to a greater or lesser extent - this would include Vanilla of course.

So much of sexuality is tied to social identity, GLBT people often struggle with substantial self loathing, and tend to have disproportionally high suicide rates during the individuation phase.

Presumably, they get over it eventually, but it can be very stressful to take on the superego and all that social conditioning, not everybody wins.

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RE: Is your D/s disposition mostly rooted in you Id, yo... - 12/31/2009 3:22:24 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
I have no idea if that make sense :)


It does make sense (you know we share a brain so when I read you, I recognise myself!)

So if I interpret what you're saying, and what many others are saying, you cycle through various states of Id, Ego and SuperEgo?

- LA

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RE: Is your D/s disposition mostly rooted in you Id, yo... - 12/31/2009 3:54:04 PM   
xssve


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Ego is the only aspect rooted in reality, the Id is pure hormonal surges through the Limbic system, the Superego is a purely abstract, symbolic construct - so, if we assume we are dealing with relatively rational people here, the real question is whether your motivation arises from a physical or a psychological need.

I'd have to say I'm pretty physical, although I feel more comfortable if there is some sort of emotional connection, otherwise it's mostly just pheromones and friction - not bad, but still.

So I'm claiming Ego-Id predominantly, though I'd be forced to admit that occasionally, my Id is just dragging the others along for the ride.

And that damned Ego, constantly: "are we there yet"?

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RE: Is your D/s disposition mostly rooted in you Id, yo... - 12/31/2009 3:58:16 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

I'd have to say I'm pretty physical, although I feel more comfortable if there is some sort of emotional connection, otherwise it's mostly just pheromones and friction - not bad, but still.

So I'm claiming Ego-Id predominantly, though I'd be forced to admit that occasionally, my Id is just dragging the others along for the ride.


I would tend to agree with you on this.

And I don't mean this as a slight at all, but I re-read you post of the super-ego (a few posts up) over and over again and I feel like I almost understand what you are getting at, and I know you are on to something, so would you mind elaborating please?

- LA

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RE: Is your D/s disposition mostly rooted in you Id, yo... - 12/31/2009 4:02:13 PM   
AAkasha


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
I have no idea if that make sense :)


It does make sense (you know we share a brain so when I read you, I recognise myself!)

So if I interpret what you're saying, and what many others are saying, you cycle through various states of Id, Ego and SuperEgo?

- LA


I think so.  Basically the more intense the urges are when they hit me, the higher they end up on the priority list.  I've never compromised my morals or put myself in a dangerous place from a professional standpoint (ie, seducing a hot young intern when in a position of power, so I could have a one night stand with a lot of bondage and S&M only to tell him to keep quiet about it).  But if I had less morals, less concern for my professional reputation and less empathy for the man on the other end, my "ID" would tell me to:

* Go out to clubs and seduce unknowing guys with the promise of sex, only to instead give them a night of S&M on my terms and never see them again
* Get guys drunk and take advantage of them
* Pretend to be a man online to seduce gay boys and make them do videos and pictures that I could masturbate to
* Pay a man to do a photo shoot or video and call it "art" but it's just an excuse to tie him up and gag him and make him feel really helpless and objectified (my ID has been close to telling me this is ok, lol)

..the list could go on.  If I was raised differently and wasn't relationship minded and ethical, I'd treat men like a drug and just go through cycles of using them to get S&M and then not seeing them again - forget the fact that a) it's really unfair to the guy and b) it's dangerous and could get a woman raped or killed.  If I were raised in a dysfunctional family, I might have gotten into drugs out of self hatred, and then used drugs or alcohol as an excuse to engage in these kinds of dangerous/bad behaviors.  If my urges were really "compulsions" then I would be a sex addict; the fact that they feel dangerously close to compulsions is sometimes a bit crazy, but I can honestly said I have never compromised myself or another human being in a bad way in order to get a "fix" - it's always safe, sane and consensual. 

Because my urges are cyclical, even though the cycles may run close together, I also know that what sounds like a FABULOUS idea today because my femdom engine is revving high ("Hey, I will start a femdom porn company!" or "Hey, I will start a gay bondage production company, I'd get an endless stream of men happy to be tied up and tortured on film!" or "Hey, I will go meet this really hot guy who lives an hour away, and not tell my husband because it's better to keep it a secret and he'd never know, and it's easier than trying to navigate the sometimes difficult road of an open relationship"), will ultimately be seen for a knee-jerk, half cooked idea that I should perhaps pursue when more level headed.

And, finally, because in a pinch, I can calm (but not eliminate) the urges and distractions through fantasy (sometimes), writing (more often), viewing good male bondage porn (more often), engaging in phone domination (with the right guy) or online/phone play (with the right guy) -- all of these things I liken to a "vampire", for example, feeding on animal blood instead of human blood. It satisfies the lust a bit, maybe fans the fires at the same time (making me want the real thing), fills the belly, eases the compulsion -- but clearly, it's just a band aid until I get what I really need.

Akasha




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RE: Is your D/s disposition mostly rooted in you Id, yo... - 12/31/2009 4:27:02 PM   
sweetsub1957


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quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve

so, if we assume we are dealing with relatively rational people here, the real question is whether your motivation arises from a physical or a psychological need.

If that's the question, then I would say that the deepest craving/need of all, for me, is psychological, because it was always there, even before I knew anything about bdsm or D/s.  The physical is all hawt too though.  It's the icing on the cake.  Oh, I don't know.  It's all good!   

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"That's not just a chip on her shoulder, that's the whole potato!" ~Lady Angelika~

In lowering yourself to talking behind my back, you're perfectly positioned to kiss my ass.

An it harm none, do what ye wilt.

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RE: Is your D/s disposition mostly rooted in you Id, yo... - 12/31/2009 4:40:42 PM   
sunshinemiss


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~FR to the OP:

I would like to thank you for not making this an either / or kind of question.  It's refreshing to see the word "mostly" in the title.

Best,
sunshine

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RE: Is your D/s disposition mostly rooted in you Id, yo... - 12/31/2009 4:50:26 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

And, finally, because in a pinch, I can calm (but not eliminate) the urges and distractions through fantasy (sometimes), writing (more often), viewing good male bondage porn (more often), engaging in phone domination (with the right guy) or online/phone play (with the right guy) -- all of these things I liken to a "vampire", for example, feeding on animal blood instead of human blood. It satisfies the lust a bit, maybe fans the fires at the same time (making me want the real thing), fills the belly, eases the compulsion -- but clearly, it's just a band aid until I get what I really need.


Like TrueBlood.

Much like you, I'm pretty happy that my Ego, and perhaps Super-Ego, hold my Id in check.

- LA

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RE: Is your D/s disposition mostly rooted in you Id, yo... - 12/31/2009 5:01:41 PM   
xssve


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The cerebral cortex deals mostly with abstraction, linguistics, and other forms of  abstract processing - nobody is exactly certain how, but it does appear to create some sort of cognitive map, whether it's linguistic, holographic, or emotional, all three appear to contribute to varying degrees.

Most of your "feelings" appear to derive from the anterior cingulate cortex which appears to mediate between the limbic system and the paleomammalian cortex - I tend to think of the limbic, Reptilian brain as the Id, the mammalian cortex as the ego, and the cerebral cortex as the Superego, roughly speaking.

The mammalian brain contains all the mammalian social adaptations that reptiles largely lack, including dominance and submission (which help mediate competition that might otherwise lead to violence and injury), nurturing, grooming, courtship behaviors, etc.

This all appears to funnel through the anterior cingulate cortex, which leads to the expression of a particualar set of hormones and neurotransmitters depending on the stimulus, which generate emotional responses: fear and attraction, and their various analogs ranging from love and hate to fondness or suspicion, etc.

It's basically the pleasure principle, serotonin plays a significant role, and it amplifies the effects of some of the other hormones, in a manner of speaking - I don't fully grasp all of the complexities, it's an active field, but we tend to assign an abstract set of values to the resulting behaviors in terms of social or individual utility - both Id and Superego being essentially irrational, too much of the former and we call it poor impulse control, too much of the latter may result in delusions of grandeur, or conversely delusions of worthlessness (or both alternating, typical of pathological Narcissism), and are basically neurotransmitter surges that are out of sync with whatever constitutes a balance - not necessarily that easy to define, as what is adaptive under one set of conditions may be less adaptive under another.

There is always a tug of war in evolution between conformity and divergence, even on the genetic level - some percentage of a given population is always trying to be more alike, another percentage is always trying to be different (DRD4, possibly) while the bulk stay in the middle to see what works - the Law of the Observant Herd, as David A. Smith calls it.

Anyway, the upshot is, we all want to be different so as to attract potential mates, but not so different that people will stare at us and say rude things which might scare those potential mates away, and this is fairly easily abstracted via linguistic influences - i.e., we typically express approval or disapproval linguistically, and language is processed by the abstract, irrational portion of your brain, it's up to your ACC to determine whether those words "feel" right or not, or you can consult other abstract models in order to try to assign a value to them, you may value an acquaintance with the speaker more than an acquaintance with whoever or whatever they're referring to, etc.

It's complicated of course - if you have a fear of heights for example, no amount of safety precautions are going to reassure you - no matter how much you can prove you're safe rationally, you're still going to be extremely uncomfortable.

Anyway, naturally, fear is a great motivator, a fear of heights is what keeps us from jumping off of buildings without a parachute or a hang glider, it's essentially a very rational fear, when controlled - but one can instill irrational fears, particularly when a given individual or a population of individuals is prone to evaluate their self worth through external validation - you hear subs mention it, attention slut, etc., which is fine, it's being honest, we all crave at least a little validation once in while, it's all part of that conformity/deviation feedback loop, but a pathology of it can be exploited - you don't use this kind of Shampoo? Loooos-er.

It's a reasonably effective marketing strategy, if you don't use a particular good or service you will be socially shunned and publicly mocked - if that sort of thing doesn't actually turn you on, you may rationalize the purchase.

It's a very common marketing strategy in politics, i.e., if you aren't voting for our team, you're a Pinko, commie, nazi, child molester, etc., etc. i.e., incentivizing conformity out of fear of being socially ostracized, social death.

At the same time, it triggers a fundamental mammalian defensive behavior, the centripetal defensive response with is a group response to a group threat - foreigners, global communism, the gay agenda, Muslim terrorists, etc., and you are expected to do something about it RIGHT NOW.

In some case, there may some legitimate threat, but rational risk assessment really isn't the point: the point is to blow it out proportion into an immediate threat to your safety, which of course, the person warning you about can take care of for you if you vote for them, send them your social security check, etc.

i.e., now, not only are you shunning the target, you desire the active destruction of the offending deviation from whatever you have determined to be the norm - or at bare minimum, the short term utility of the fact that at least they aren't giving you the stinkeye.

I hope I didn't overdo it, I might be a little aspie myself.

< Message edited by xssve -- 12/31/2009 5:04:23 PM >

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RE: Is your D/s disposition mostly rooted in you Id, yo... - 12/31/2009 5:17:16 PM   
xssve


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The Superego is the internalized abstract model of ideal behavior, appearance, etc. if this model happens to be inhumanly and irrationally perfect, a great deal of cognitive dissonance may result, an inability to validate yourself, leading to emotional distress, and attempts to alleviate that pain through external validation - Narcissism.

Again, very handy from a marketing standpoint.

Fortunately, being a psychological condition - there appears to be no physiological or neurological markers - it can be cured: love is the antidote.

< Message edited by xssve -- 12/31/2009 5:18:26 PM >

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RE: Is your D/s disposition mostly rooted in you Id, yo... - 12/31/2009 6:34:07 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


Its a little counter-intuitive to think that anyone's sex drive would be commanded by the super-ego.


No, but it can certainly shape and inform the relationships that we form around the BDSM framework.


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RE: Is your D/s disposition mostly rooted in you Id, yo... - 12/31/2009 6:38:36 PM   
Lucienne


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Dominance comes from my Id.

Submission from my Super-ego.

My ego is just confused. :)

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RE: Is your D/s disposition mostly rooted in you Id, yo... - 12/31/2009 6:43:48 PM   
RealSub58


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I do not see D/s in the definition.... me, myself and I are confused.
 
disposition   [n ]

1. a person's usual temperament or frame of mind2. (Psychology) a natural or acquired tendency, inclination, or habit in a person or thing3. (Business / Commerce) another word for disposal 4. (Philosophy) Philosophy Logic a property that consists not in the present state of an object, but in its propensity to change in a certain way under certain conditions, as brittleness which consists in the propensity to break when struck Compare occurrent5. Archaic manner of placing or arranging

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RE: Is your D/s disposition mostly rooted in you Id, yo... - 12/31/2009 8:19:23 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

I hope I didn't overdo it, I might be a little aspie myself.


In all honesty, I read it a few times and though I understand the need for individuals to balance their own desire with a certain degree of conformity, I'm having a very hard time seeing the link to the OP. I mean it might be there and I might just not be seeing it. But I want to see, so can you show me? :-)

Re: aspie comment, real or joke?

- LA

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RE: Is your D/s disposition mostly rooted in you Id, yo... - 12/31/2009 8:23:17 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve

The Superego is the internalized abstract model of ideal behavior, appearance, etc. if this model happens to be inhumanly and irrationally perfect, a great deal of cognitive dissonance may result, an inability to validate yourself, leading to emotional distress, and attempts to alleviate that pain through external validation - Narcissism.


One's own perception of perfect or in alignement with the ideologies of the cultural hegemony?

quote:

Again, very handy from a marketing standpoint.


This would suggest cultural hegemony...

quote:

Fortunately, being a psychological condition - there appears to be no physiological or neurological markers - it can be cured: love is the antidote.


Is this like when a guy has won over the woman of his dreams, he lets himself grow a beer belly? ;-)

- LA

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