quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Real, no. The people in our govt are the hired help, not the management.
We are "citizens" not "subjects."

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

This is true, but it's fair to say that if you voted for anybody (and I mean anybody) since turning 18, then you have consented to the whole rule by elected (or even unelected between 200 and 2009) representatives thing. If you're not on the electoral register, then fair enough.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

If you're voting in an election, that's a pretty fair statement that you regard the election as a legitimate process and whoever wins as a legally elected representative of whatever it is you're voting for, surely?

quote:

If you didn't, you wouldn't have bothered voting in the first place (as I believe a lot of Libertarians don't).

quote:

Did you consent to be governed?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

So:

Have you consented to be governed?

I would place my bet on all of you did!


That being the case why all the whining about what your fearless

"leaders" are doing et al when they use the blank check you gave them?

Would you all deny that when you join the club you have to pay the club dues and follow the club rules?

This does not make sense to me.....Why not just be happy and let them govern for you in accordance with your agreement per the contract?

quote:

ORIGINAL: cpK69

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

If you're voting in an election, that's a pretty fair statement that you regard the election as a legitimate process and whoever wins as a legally elected representative of whatever it is you're voting for, surely?

Hmmmm… So not what I was thinking the last time around.

quote:

If you didn't, you wouldn't have bothered voting in the first place (as I believe a lot of Libertarians don't).

Are you referring to me as a Libertarian? I can’t tell. I have no idea as to what they do.

The first time I voted, back in '04', I hadn't yet learned that the 'game' is rigged. In '08', I more or less, cast a statement, instead of a vote; I knew it wouldn't be counted as a vote.

Looking back, it was more of a personal statement, to myself; but felt like I was saying it outloud.

Kim

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


No, I'm not calling you a libertarian, Kim.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Acer49

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

So:

Have you consented to be governed?

I would place my bet on all of you did!


That being the case why all the whining about what your fearless

"leaders" are doing et al when they use the blank check you gave them?

Would you all deny that when you join the club you have to pay the club dues and follow the club rules?

This does not make sense to me.....Why not just be happy and let them govern for you in accordance with your agreement per the contract?

With that "consent" comes expectations
Those who govern us, must have unquestionable ethics
Those who govern us must be free of hidden agendas
Those who govern us must act in a fiscal responsible manner
Those who govern us must truly know what is best for the people of the country and impliment it.

These are some of the rules of the game, This is what I consented to.
Those who govern us

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

Have you consented to be governed?

What do you mean by being governed?

I mean as stated in the law books.  see definition below

I've consented to abiding by majority rule providing the government act as a referee in resolving individual disputes.

I haven't however consented to the Prime Minister lying to Parliament and engaging the country in an illegal war as per international law. So - if you mean have I consented to absolutism and Machiavellian ideas that it is acceptable for the state to lie to the people because the state knows what's in the interests of the people - then the answer is no.

People do not consent to their a-tturn-on-me making a back room deal with the judge or adverserial party either but its done all the time.  WHY?  Because you gave consent and giving consent is no different than giving power of attorney!!

I'm more than happy to give up a small portion of my salary (i.e. taxes) so that we can invest in schools and hospitals and maintain a society that can co-exist in some sort of economic and social harmony. I've certainly consented to that.

Sure a number that "I" choose to give for the services that "I" choose to use and it ends there.  In that erspect I agree.

I'm not so happy about paying taxes to fund war - any war - but then I've agreed to go with majority rule so win some lose some.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

That being the case why all the whining about what your fearless

"leaders" are doing et al when they use the blank check you gave them?

Perhaps some people are moaning; others see a dangerous situation where our political framework is being ridden rough-shod because our Prime Minister thinks he knows best and we'll thank him for it later. The most galling thing about it is that Britain is a secular nation where the majority think the notion of divine intervention is absolutely ludicrous (yet our ex-Prime Minister ignores that and goes running round on some Christian mission in a place we know nothing of and care less still).

well dont forget that one of your earlier monarchs gave all the possessions of england and all chattels to the catholic church.  Now rome has never been taken by england by conquest and I have no knowledge that those contracts have ever been broken as in agreed to by both parties.  So that is quite conceivable imo.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

Would you all deny that when you join the club you have to pay the club dues and follow the club rules?

Absolutely. The whole point of the rule of law and government is that everyone knows where they stand - you have an appeal but ultimately you abide by the rules.

As per the above - our ex-Prime Minister didn't play by the established rules.

Well rule of law and statutes are entirely different animals.  So he may have been in conformance with rule of law which is structured to protect the monarchy from the rules. so to speak.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

This does not make sense to me.....Why not just be happy and let them govern for you in accordance with your agreement per the contract?

I'd agree to an extent. You can't please everyone all of the time - but you can play by the rules. Tony Blair is under investigation as we speak and it seems that the evidence suggests he committed a series of minor crimes under British law. It's a good sign that he has being forced to explain himself - let's see if the law holds him accountable and locks him up.

One thing that you will find very very as in really fricken interesting.... if you go through out brit history and pay attention to the major acts thay passed and then look what happens in america within 10 years.   heh heh    Now that is a major kick in the balls for those who think all the "stuff" they think about history! LOL

quote:

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Real, no. The people in our govt are the hired help, not the management.
We are "citizens" not "subjects."

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

Did you consent to be governed?

Did I grow up here, take advantage of free education, military, police and fire protection, clean water, safe food, the freedom to speak as I chose, worship as I chose, to pursue career interests as I chose?

Yup. I consented to all of it. I even participated in the process, as a voter and as an activist.

I'm still proud to do so.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Do they let you run freely, or are you required to call in periodically?

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirAldwyn

neither apply, if you are born into the system.  so only people who moved here legally or illegally have a choice

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Do they let you run freely, or are you required to call in periodically?

I would have thought that being scammed like that would have outraged you? 

Do you take the position then that anything beyond physical monitoring is freedom is that it?

Restraining someone from movement or the requirement to call in is what they force people to do on probation or in jail.

The 14th says that everyone is a US citizen and all those who are, are subject to the jurisdiction thereof.

I think it is pretty clear that citizens in america are not free at all but slaves under the government in which THEY created?  (or did they?)

Doesnt that strike you as being a bit wrong?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Do they let you run freely, or are you required to call in periodically?

I would have thought that being scammed like that would have outraged you? 

Do you take the position then that anything beyond physical monitoring is freedom is that it?

Restraining someone from movement or the requirement to call in is what they force people to do on probation or in jail.

The 14th says that everyone is a US citizen and all those who are, are subject to the jurisdiction thereof.

I think it is pretty clear that citizens in america are not free at all but slaves under the government in which THEY created?  (or did they?)

Doesnt that strike you as being a bit wrong?

Have fun storming the castle!