'Breaking' a Dominant

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Mercnbeth -> 'Breaking' a Dominant (1/2/2010 7:11:21 AM)
My lovely beth came back from getting coffee this morning and said she noted a trend on the CM boards. Most of the time when a person comes to the boards identifying themselves as 'submissive' relaying a tale about being forced to do something they don't want to by a dominant or an occasion when a dominant exceeds the boundaries of the authority the submissive has granted them and 'safe-words' out of a situation; they are given support and suggestions. They are told that overstepping limits abdicates the need to obey their dominant and that a 'good' dominant doesn't 'break' a submissive but instead facilitates their submission. beth noted that the same consideration is rarely, if ever, been given when a person comes in with the same problems from the dominant side of the relationship. A person who says their submissive partner wants them to exceed their abilities or desires (limits?) for lifestyle activities is told anything from "act like you like it", to "you are lazy!". The dominant is told they must change themselves, their physical desires, and maybe most importantly - their philosophy of what a relationship entails. They must break from their beliefs of how they define 'love' and how it's personified. They must break from their attitudes, break from how they define sex, break from their comfortable non D/s persona. To fulfill their partner's expectations for their relationship they must break. Appreciating, from personal observation, that this is a submissive orientated 'lifestyle'; why is it bad to advocate 'breaking' a submissive yet 'breaking' a Dominant - encouraged? Is it representing gender bias? "Act like a man!"; has been said with some seriousness behind the poke. While acting like a 'man' has been deliberately repressed in society from childhood since the late 60's, is the 'lifestyle' a place to go in the hope of bucking that trend? Yet even then, generally accepted is that it is the submissive who sets the governing parameters, limits and safe-words, bound by the most sacred of lifestyle words - 'TRUST'? The needs of the submissive partner seem to supersede that trust to not ask a partner to do what potentially can 'break' them. I think, if it's possible to do so, I hijacked my own thread in the first post with that last paragraph. However I hope you'll focus on the main subject - the encouragement of 'breaking' a person to be 'dominant' in a relationship when they don't want to, don't need to, don't like to, or have no interest in being the live version character of their spouses 'romance novel' inspired fantasy.

osf -> RE: 'Breaking' a Dominant (1/2/2010 7:14:37 AM)
i tend to gloss over such public displays of dirty laundry, i think it's in bad taste and doesn't speak well of the speaker my relationship problems are just that mine

Underumam -> RE: 'Breaking' a Dominant (1/2/2010 7:18:50 AM)
Is there a handbook anywhere that shows subs how to break a dominant? Hmmmm.....lol.

Jeffff -> RE: 'Breaking' a Dominant (1/2/2010 7:21:07 AM)
If they don't wish to be dominant, why are they asking for help? Many of the posts are men looking for help. If you add the fact that men by there nature are problem solvers, that might be the answer. How many of the men here have had a woman say, "I just want you to listen". When a man asks another man a question, he is more likely to be looking for a solution. Of course. tough love is the favored form of advice here..:) Jeff

Lucienne -> RE: 'Breaking' a Dominant (1/2/2010 7:29:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth . However I hope you'll focus on the main subject - the encouragement of 'breaking' a person to be 'dominant' in a relationship when they don't want to, don't need to, don't like to, or have no interest in being the live version character of their spouses 'romance novel' inspired fantasy. Could I see an example of this dynamic in action? Link to one of the threads beth is thinking of or something like that? Because I'm not sure I understand precisely what you are talking about.

UniqueRaven -> RE: 'Breaking' a Dominant (1/2/2010 8:12:05 AM)
For some reason reading your post this morning made me think of a wolf going into a henhouse. He might snatch himself a tasty hen off the perch, but he's sure going to get pecked a lot first. But the wolf gets what he wants, so i imagine all of those "pecks" really don't matter that much to him - and they shouldn't. And i'm sure he'll be back for more. But the hens, well, they're all a-flutter now, right? i may need more caffeine, but this is the best way i can think of this right now........will be back later.........stumbles off for tea julie

DesFIP -> RE: 'Breaking' a Dominant (1/2/2010 8:15:49 AM)
One of the differences is that a new dom can often need encouragement to break long term societal conditioning in order to discover if he really dislikes something or just is uncomfortable at this point. Men are taught not to hit girls. Giving your partner a small spanking will not break you. It will not do lasting harm. Same with women who are asked to accept this by a partner. It can be a momentary pain but it will not break you. So we encourage people to try it once or twice before they decide categorically not to do anything. However if you do already know that you find this distasteful and unpleasant, then you know that you don't belong in such a relationship. And someone who says they don't want any of this doesn't qualify as dominant or submissive and needs to learn how to communicate better so they don't get into another wrong relationship in the future.

Phoenixpower -> RE: 'Breaking' a Dominant (1/2/2010 8:16:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jeffff men by there nature are problem solvers men are what??? So far in my experience they are more problem creaters [image]http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/10/10_3_6.gif[/image]

littlewonder -> RE: 'Breaking' a Dominant (1/2/2010 8:17:58 AM)
I've seen this as well and never quite understood the reasoning behind it. I'm of the opinion that if something isn't working for you, if you are uncomfortable in the situation and it's not part of your makeup and personality then you have two choices...stay and try to come to a compromise within the relationship by both of you sitting down and talking and figuring out what will make you BOTH happy or....moving on and finding someone who does make your life happier. The minute you try to be something you are not that's when it's time to rethink the situation you are in.

osf -> RE: 'Breaking' a Dominant (1/2/2010 8:19:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littlewonder I've seen this as well and never quite understood the reasoning behind it. I'm of the opinion that if something isn't working for you, if you are uncomfortable in the situation and it's not part of your makeup and personality then you have two choices...stay and try to come to a compromise within the relationship by both of you sitting down and talking and figuring out what will make you BOTH happy or....moving on and finding someone who does make your life happier. The minute you try to be something you are not that's when it's time to rethink the situation you are in. hear hear

LafayetteLady -> RE: 'Breaking' a Dominant (1/2/2010 8:22:16 AM)
I am pretty sure I know at least one of the posts you are writing about. I very much noticed the same thing although I don't know that I see it exactly the same way. I have seen other posts where someone's SO is looking to be dominant and the person writing didn't really want that kind of relationship either, although granted it is much less frequent. To me, it has felt more like a "cult" type of mentality where everyone is trying to "encourage" the non-"kinky" partner to read, learn and try to find a way to please their partner in a way that will "work" for them. It is all under the "disguise" of trying to work out a relationship. Often, as with the post in question, the main context seems to fall by the wayside and people offer suggestions on how to "discover" their dominant persona. In the post in question, everyone made the assumption, against the given information that the wife wanted full time dominance. I don't know if it was based on what the OP said she was reading, but the OP was also pretty specific that it was only when she read this material that she seemed to want that "kind" of play. While there is certainly nothing wrong with being a full time "lifestyle" person, neither is it wrong if people only want to have this kind of relationship on occasion or limit it to bedroom activities. But there is definately the attitude that the latter makes someone "less" than the full timers. I think that far too often encouragement is given to someone to change their way to be more accepting of their kinky partner. Perhaps it is the subconscious frustration and thinking that BDSM is unacceptable, but things will often come off as judgemental in many ways. If a sub comes in questioning her partner's desire for other partners, everyone will immediately jump in discussing what negotiations took place in the beginning making the assumption that the sub needed to bring this up and the fact that the dominant never brought it up either is irrelevant. Meanwhile, many people who are new don't think that there are times when someone might want to have multiple partners so they don't bring it up. I mention that because as I said, often there are various things that everyone wants to jump in and "blame" the OP for their own problems. Someone is not particularly interested in being dominant? Well, there must be things they can do to satisfy their partner's need for dominance. Someone is not interested in a poly situation or having a partner who plays outside their relationship? Well they should have negotiated that in the beginning. It doesn't matter that the OP makes statements that indicate their partner is wanting these kinds of activities only on an occassional basis or that both people should be stating what their expectations in the relationship are. I don't see it as necessarily encouraging the "breaking" of what type over another but more a matter of everyone keying in on only one portion of a question while ignoring the rest or making speculations and assumptions that dismiss those other parts of the issue at hand, almost as though there is something wrong with someone who doesn't want it "all" or want things full time.

Icarys -> RE: 'Breaking' a Dominant (1/2/2010 8:22:57 AM)
quote: Appreciating, from personal observation, that this is a submissive orientated 'lifestyle'; why is it bad to advocate 'breaking' a submissive yet 'breaking' a Dominant - encouraged? Hey Merc. Happy New Year to you both. Would you mind expounding on this for me? What do you mean "submissive orientated lifestyle"?

CaringandReal -> RE: 'Breaking' a Dominant (1/2/2010 8:23:49 AM)
I know this is meant to be a general discussion. I'm not interested in picking on specifics, but I want to be sure I know what you are referring to. Could you list a couple of threads that exemplify this? I remember one thread in which a dominant described having a very bratty "little girl" style slave who would throw temper tantrums and even break his posessions if she wasn't in constant contact with him. He had, in my opinion, spoiled her early in an attempt to be kind and parental and was now living with the consequences. In that thread the advice was mixed, as it always is in a diverse group, but the majority of responses seemed to be of the "dump the bitch" variety. Some, mine too I think, suggested discipline. That thread wasn't a "break the dom" example, obviously. But what is an example of one that would be?

Jeffff -> RE: 'Breaking' a Dominant (1/2/2010 8:23:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phoenixpower quote: ORIGINAL: Jeffff men by there nature are problem solvers men are what??? So far in my experience they are more problem creaters [image]http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/10/10_3_6.gif[/image] I didn't say we were good at it. I said it's what we do...:) Jeff

osf -> RE: 'Breaking' a Dominant (1/2/2010 8:26:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CaringandReal I know this is meant to be a general discussion. I'm not interested in picking on specifics, but I want to be sure I know what you are referring to. Could you list a couple of threads that exemplify this? I remember one thread in which a dominant described having a very bratty "little girl" style slave who would throw temper tantrums and even break his posessions if she wasn't in constant contact with him. He had, in my opinion, spoiled her early in an attempt to be kind and parental and was now living with the consequences. In that thread the advice was mixed, as it always is in a diverse group, but the majority of responses seemed to be of the "dump the bitch" variety. Some, mine too I think, suggested discipline. That thread wasn't a "break the dom" example, obviously. But what is an example of one that would be? lately i've been leaning toward conditioning and habituation, i kinda like the concept

xssve -> RE: 'Breaking' a Dominant (1/2/2010 8:37:17 AM)
It does occasionally become a question of the dom setting the limits - in some sense, that is the doms "job" so to speak, to allow the submissive to act out on their fantasies and desire, to satisfy their needs without it becoming self destructive (and presumably has their need gratified in the process) - the ID unleashed is a powerful thing, and sometimes requires external controls if internal controls do not appear to be sufficient. And, to some extent, to be submissive is to accept external limits, it's the definition of the dynamic - ultimately and ideally, one hopes to evolve a pattern of behaviors within the dyad that are mutually gratifying - in some case that may mean the sub accepting limits, on other it may mean the dom may have to step outside their comfort zone if they wish to gain a better understanding of their counterpart. Again, this the ideal - many will say dom is dom and sub is sub, period, others will tell one or the other of the respective partners to abandon ship, dissolve the relationship and seek elsewhere. So, it sort of depends on what and how much you value your partner, what can you live with - and we're back to square one.

osf -> RE: 'Breaking' a Dominant (1/2/2010 8:41:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: xssve It does occasionally become a question of the dom setting the limits - in some sense, that is the doms "job" so to speak, to allow the submissive to act out on their fantasies and desire, to satisfy their needs without it becoming self destructive (and presumably has their need gratified in the process) - the ID unleashed is a powerful thing, and sometimes requires external controls if internal controls do not appear to be sufficient. And, to some extent, to be submissive is to accept external limits, it's the definition of the dynamic - ultimately and ideally, one hopes to evolve a pattern of behaviors within the dyad that are mutually gratifying - in some case that may mean the sub accepting limits, on other it may mean the dom may have to step outside their comfort zone if they wish to gain a better understanding of their counterpart. Again, this the ideal - many will say dom is dom and sub is sub, period, others will tell one or the other of the respective partners to abandon ship, dissolve the relationship and seek elsewhere. So, it sort of depends on what and how much you value your partner, what can you live with - and we're back to square one. in the end the ultimate motivator for her may be the knowledge you will only put up with so much, if you accept more than that the relationship is doomed anyway my opinion,

xssve -> RE: 'Breaking' a Dominant (1/2/2010 8:51:36 AM)
It depends on what it is; I'll usually try anything once, but that's me. But if I don't like it, or it's compromising me in some way, I'm not going to keep doing it. I have fairly well established priorities, and there are things I simply can't afford to be flexible on - they are non sexual for the most part, but d/s takes time and energy, and I only have so much of that to go around.

hardbodysub -> RE: 'Breaking' a Dominant (1/2/2010 8:52:22 AM)
quote: To me, it has felt more like a "cult" type of mentality where everyone is trying to "encourage" the non-"kinky" partner to read, learn and try to find a way to please their partner in a way that will "work" for them. It is all under the "disguise" of trying to work out a relationship. Often, as with the post in question, the main context seems to fall by the wayside and people offer suggestions on how to "discover" their dominant persona. Where's the disguise? When a person in a relationship has a need or strong desire, and tries to get the partner to understand and help fulfill that need/desire, how is that a "disguise"? What do you consider the "main context" that seems to fall by the wayside? Maybe I'm just misunderstanding you, but I view it entirely the opposite. I think that the disguise is "helping my partner discover his/her dominant side" when the real goal is "getting my partner to fulfill my need to be dominated", which, like any other need, if not met, can lead to problems in a relationship.

osf -> RE: 'Breaking' a Dominant (1/2/2010 8:54:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: xssve It depends on what it is; I'll usually try anything once, but that's me. But if I don't like it, or it's compromising me in some way, I'm not going to keep doing it. I have fairly well established priorities, and there are things I simply can't afford to be flexible on - they are non sexual for the most part, but d/s takes time and energy, and I only have so much of that to go around. yes try talk explain , try to get her on your side, many don't realize that can work or understand what it is

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