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RE: If you were a terrorist..... - 1/5/2010 3:53:20 PM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
What say you?


That you have sick fantasies, but whatever rocks your boat, man. Just... don't jizz on the walls.


Also kitten, Homeland Security is supposed to be planning for contigencies. Dept of Homeland Security. Remember them? The system worked just fine folks.



Yes, threat level aquamarine...I say again, threat level aquamarine.

out.

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Profile   Post #: 21
RE: If you were a terrorist..... - 1/5/2010 4:03:02 PM   
EbonyWood


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


[Give account, Ebony, that the weapons carried by Joe the Plumber are totally ineffective against military style weapons used in Mumbai. I suspect the real get away problem would be the logistics of transportation. To what terrorist friendly country could they flee after the attack? Pakistan is too far away and inconvenient. Vermont perhaps? (oh lordy, just kidding)


That's my point Vincent, that Joe the Plumber would be way down the list, unless they watch too many Hollywood movies. I would think transportation would be the biggest hurdle. As getting away with it implies well...getting away.
 
As for Joe's weapons, I would say these guys probably put it into the acceptable risk category (if they are hoping for some kind of 'escape'). I don't think they are planning diamond heists and believe they will all get to the French Riviera unharmed.
 
And, as if you say, they are totally suicidal, Joe isn't going to come into the equation. He, along with them, will most likely be blown skyhigh before he can act.
 

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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: If you were a terrorist..... - 1/5/2010 4:16:37 PM   
NYLass


Posts: 409
Joined: 12/30/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
What say you?


That you have sick fantasies, but whatever rocks your boat, man. Just... don't jizz on the walls.


Also kitten, Homeland Security is supposed to be planning for contigencies. Dept of Homeland Security. Remember them? The system worked just fine folks.



Yes, threat level aquamarine...I say again, threat level aquamarine.

out.


I'd like a lavender level.


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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: If you were a terrorist..... - 1/5/2010 4:49:58 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: EbonyWood

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


[Give account, Ebony, that the weapons carried by Joe the Plumber are totally ineffective against military style weapons used in Mumbai. I suspect the real get away problem would be the logistics of transportation. To what terrorist friendly country could they flee after the attack? Pakistan is too far away and inconvenient. Vermont perhaps? (oh lordy, just kidding)


That's my point Vincent, that Joe the Plumber would be way down the list, unless they watch too many Hollywood movies. I would think transportation would be the biggest hurdle. As getting away with it implies well...getting away.
 
As for Joe's weapons, I would say these guys probably put it into the acceptable risk category (if they are hoping for some kind of 'escape'). I don't think they are planning diamond heists and believe they will all get to the French Riviera unharmed.
 
And, as if you say, they are totally suicidal, Joe isn't going to come into the equation. He, along with them, will most likely be blown skyhigh before he can act.
 


Ebony, for me "suicidal" presumes no way out. The attackers would go in with that knowledge and accept their fate just as the 19 did on 9/11. It need not be a single explosion to have traumatic effect. That is the lesson of Mumbai for me. Additionally our DHS is so focused on attack from the air, it seems only logical that some alternative method and target would be the choice, some event that would really scar the American psyche. I wonder what the security defenses are around Disney World. Can you imagine young fanatics shooting their way into Disney, creating carnage, and having to be flushed out by local swat teams and military special ops? Frightening beyond measure.

< Message edited by vincentML -- 1/5/2010 4:51:22 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: If you were a terrorist..... - 1/5/2010 5:42:51 PM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

How often does any crime of violence get interrupted by armed citizens? What are the percentages? Why would any terrorist make a strategic decision on target selection based (even in part) on such an infinitesimal possibility?


Clarify please, Panda. Are you saying suicidal fanatics would not select a target if there were a small chance of someone firing back?


I doubt it would be a go/no-go factor in their target selection. Why would it? In most states that have legalized concealed carry, far fewer than 1% of the citizens of the state are licensed to carry a weapon. The chance that a terrorist is going to run into one of those people is far, far less than their chance of being confronted by an armed law enforcement officer. If they think a target is juicy enough to warrant attacking, I can't think of any sensible reason they'd be deterred by the fact that some people in that state or city own firearms.



Panda, say if I was in a shopping mall that was attacked and there were 7 or 8 other military veterans in there who were armed too.
Unless the savages were right in front of me and took me out immediately the hunt would be on! And the way us veterans think I'd want to get "more savages" than say an "Air Force" veteran! (Shudder!) We're kind of "competitive" like that.
And in that scenario anyone who is armed would be the "first responders." And since I'm not a leo I don't have to yell out "let's see your hands" or any of that nonsense, it'd just be "aquire target, aim, fire"
One thing for sure, I wouldn't want to be a cop in that situation, in uniform they'd stick out like a sore thumb and be picked off one by one as they arrived onscene.
If the first responders managed to kill five or six out of ten savages and had the other four or five pinned down by gunfire in a certain area that would save a lot of cops' lives.
Now, what if *noone* in the Mall was armed?

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 1/5/2010 5:45:13 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: If you were a terrorist..... - 1/5/2010 6:20:10 PM   
TheHeretic


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From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Are you dissing on the Air Force, Popeye? 

I'm just not going to get into a speculative discussion of potential targets, but I will point out that an attempt to bomb LAX was thwarted in 1999/2000, and these guys tend towards the 'if at first you don't succeed, try, try again' philosophy, as demonstrated by the 1993 bombing at the WTC.

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: If you were a terrorist..... - 1/5/2010 6:35:34 PM   
popeye1250


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From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Are you dissing on the Air Force, Popeye? 

I'm just not going to get into a speculative discussion of potential targets, but I will point out that an attempt to bomb LAX was thwarted in 1999/2000, and these guys tend towards the 'if at first you don't succeed, try, try again' philosophy, as demonstrated by the 1993 bombing at the WTC.


Heretic, no I'm not "dissing" the Air Force I just wouldn't want to see one of (them) get "more meat" than me in a firefight. How do you think a Marine would feel if a Sailor got "more meat" than (them) in a firefight? Man, they'd be PISSED!!!
And I agree with you on the rest. And al qeada has had plenty of time to establish "cells" in this country. All they have to do is walk in over that Mexican border.

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: If you were a terrorist..... - 1/5/2010 6:38:54 PM   
InvisibleBlack


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Where would you attack the U.S. next?


If *I* were a terrorist? Hrm.

What are our goals? The expulsion of the United States from the Middle East and the removal of U.S. support for the governments there that are viewed as oppressive or immoral by my cause. How would *I* achieve this?

I wouldn't attack anything in the United States. The people of the U.S. are kind of dopey and lazy and don't do much until they're agitated. Historically, attacking the United States without warning - for example Pearl Harbor or 9/11 - tends to result in the citizenry of America demanding vengeance and then dropping thousands of angry soldiers or atomic bombs onto whoever they feel is to blame. That's counter-productive.

I'd adopt a strategy using Viet Nam as a model. I would attempt to kill or injure as many U. S. citizens and soldiers traveling to the Middle East as possible. I would only attack, kill or blow up American targets in Arab occupied lands. I'd try to maximize the body count anywhere American soldiers are, whether actively engaged at war (like Afghanistan or Iraq) or just having an established presence. I would deliberately seek out American travelers, journalists or any "tourist" in the Middle East as a target.

My assumption is that after a while, people in the U.S. would start to wonder "why are we over there!?" and "what are our boys dying for!?" and begin a movement to pull out of the Middle East. Eventually this movement would crest and American troops and support to Middle Eastern governments would be withdrawn and then my evil terrorist gang could make its move.

That's what I'd do.

You're safe in a mall in the midwest but every night on the news there'd be some other grisly story about somebody dying horribly overseas.

< Message edited by InvisibleBlack -- 1/5/2010 6:41:25 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: If you were a terrorist..... - 1/5/2010 7:32:34 PM   
vincentML


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Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: InvisibleBlack

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Where would you attack the U.S. next?


If *I* were a terrorist? Hrm.

What are our goals? The expulsion of the United States from the Middle East and the removal of U.S. support for the governments there that are viewed as oppressive or immoral by my cause. How would *I* achieve this?

I wouldn't attack anything in the United States. The people of the U.S. are kind of dopey and lazy and don't do much until they're agitated. Historically, attacking the United States without warning - for example Pearl Harbor or 9/11 - tends to result in the citizenry of America demanding vengeance and then dropping thousands of angry soldiers or atomic bombs onto whoever they feel is to blame. That's counter-productive.

I'd adopt a strategy using Viet Nam as a model. I would attempt to kill or injure as many U. S. citizens and soldiers traveling to the Middle East as possible. I would only attack, kill or blow up American targets in Arab occupied lands. I'd try to maximize the body count anywhere American soldiers are, whether actively engaged at war (like Afghanistan or Iraq) or just having an established presence. I would deliberately seek out American travelers, journalists or any "tourist" in the Middle East as a target.

My assumption is that after a while, people in the U.S. would start to wonder "why are we over there!?" and "what are our boys dying for!?" and begin a movement to pull out of the Middle East. Eventually this movement would crest and American troops and support to Middle Eastern governments would be withdrawn and then my evil terrorist gang could make its move.

That's what I'd do.

You're safe in a mall in the midwest but every night on the news there'd be some other grisly story about somebody dying horribly overseas.


The strategy worked well against us in Vietnam, Black. I think because we really had no rationale for the dying and so took to the streets against the War.

Today we sit by comfortably and allow 4300 young men and women perish in Iraq in the name of protecting the homeland, however misguided our strategy may be. More in that outhouse Afghanistan as well.

An horrific strike in Mumbai fashion against so innocent a target as Disney World would cause confusion and outrage. Cries for Homeland Defense would sweep the nation. Our overseas deployments would be seen as useless and the demand would arise to bring the troops home to protect the children.

Wow, I scare the shit out of myself.

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: If you were a terrorist..... - 1/5/2010 7:36:43 PM   
EbonyWood


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250


say if I was in a shopping mall that was attacked and there were 7 or 8 other military veterans in there who were armed too.


Depends how close to Ladies Underwear the action broke out.

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: If you were a terrorist..... - 1/5/2010 7:38:47 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

IF i were a terrorist... gesh man... lets give out flipping manuals now!


http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/


_____________________________

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Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: If you were a terrorist..... - 1/5/2010 7:41:07 PM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
Where would you attack the U.S. next?

I would not.

But possibly Seattle might be targeted with a dirty atom bomb. Afterwards by 'coincidence' just outside the blast area a half burned passport of a Muslim terrorist will be found. Only to have it some years later discovered that this Muslim died actually four years before the attack and that the photograph on the passport is not of him but of some innocent South American tango dancer whose wallet was nicked when he visited the White House.

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: If you were a terrorist..... - 1/5/2010 7:41:43 PM   
SirAldwyn


Posts: 44
Joined: 10/15/2009
Status: offline 		Well if we remember history, (from just a couple of years ago) any person who disagrees with the President of the USA and his plans is helping the terrorist, so following that thought, if you're helping you are one, then there are a lot of people we elected acting as terrorists.

Just look back like 3-4 years, don't approve war funding You're helping the terrorist (2009 war funding vote every GOP voted no)
2005 talk about the President while he is out of country, you're weakening America (2009 GOP slams POTUS while out of country and while in HI, claiming it's like a foreign land)

See a pattern????

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RE: If you were a terrorist..... - 1/5/2010 7:48:04 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

IF i were a terrorist... gesh man... lets give out flipping manuals now!


http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/



Yeah, i knew someone would get that wrong. I meant manuals on where to hit and why. i have my ideas... and.. not a one would be a historical or political spot.

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: If you were a terrorist..... - 1/5/2010 7:56:33 PM   
NeedToUseYou


Posts: 2297
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From: None of your business
Status: offline 		Well, after 9-11 I thought about this, as in trying to think from a terrorists perspective. Well, I was traveling a lot back then, driving about 10 hours plus a day, so I saw a lot of very weak targets. As far as it goes, major oil piplines are completely 100% unprotected along long stretches. So, If I were a terrorist I'd probably start there. The Electric production is almost completely exposed, as in the high tension wires that run from the plants, would be trivial to take down. Railroad bridges etc...

Anyway, after driving around and noticing the complete vulnerability of huge swathes of critical infrastructure, I've come to the conclusion that either there really aren't that many terrorists, or terrorists are really stupid. As in the same number of terrorists that took part in 9-11 could wreak untold havoc, with a low chance of getting caught at all.

I mean which is more effective, running a plane into a building, and dying, or distrupting a nations ability to transport oil? A small group could do that, and disrupt electrical service to boot. As you simply cannot protect the means of transport.

So, there are not that many terrorists, that's my conclusion. There can't be as they could just walk across the border, it's not like we are doing much to stop them from getting in.




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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: If you were a terrorist..... - 1/5/2010 8:35:51 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		I agree with NTUY - a few well placed truck bombs at critical junctions and bridges in the UK would certainly bring the whole country to a halt for days at a cost of billions. Add in a pretty small attack on the water supply to Birmingham (the 2nd city), the pipeline for which is nicely exposed not far from here in secluded woodland, a truckbomb on the Channel Tunnel and the merest hint of poison in the reservoirs and youre in business. And the good news is that there are still plenty of targets to go, including water, gas, electric, rail, ferries and all without going anywhere near an airport.

E

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: If you were a terrorist..... - 1/5/2010 8:42:38 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline 		that would be a repeat in history...

where all the cameras went dead!!




_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: If you were a terrorist..... - 1/5/2010 8:43:38 PM   
numuncular


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Where would you attack the U.S. next?
The obvious places would be states that have restrictive gun laws, N.Y. N.J., Mass., Ill., etc.
And I don't think the next attack will be with airliners either as they're "expected" to do, these individual attacks on planes could be a cover or diversion.
I think there's a good chance that California could be the next target. In particular San Francisco where handguns are "outlawed."
Ten terrorists with automatic weapons could take out a lot of people and police as well. And they'd face no threat from an un-armed citizenry either.
I think that this administration needs to start "thinking outside the box" on this.
Although I don't know if they are capable of it.
What say you?



oooo look what he's done! you've meshed in (presumably) views on gun controls with the logical assumption that terrorists will most likely attack the large cities you've mentioned, as opposed to chickenshit, iowa where there is no gun controls in a backhanded way to say, LETS NOT CONTROL GUNS!

if i was bin laden and wanted to scare the shit out of americans I'd plan lots of small attacks on small american towns to give the message that you aren't safe *anywhere*.
but personally I'd attack shrewsbury, in revenge for a particularly harrowing cup defeat a few years ago.

additionally i think the bit about guns is a little off the ball anyway, since firstly, more damage can be done with bombs anyway and even if they did stage an attack with rifles, the mere fact that it happened in the first place causes the terror, not the statistics on how many got killed, and its fairly clear that al queda terrorists dont go on missions expecting to come back.


< Message edited by numuncular -- 1/5/2010 8:53:12 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: If you were a terrorist..... - 1/5/2010 8:56:28 PM   
AnimusRex


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
Panda, say if I was in a shopping mall that was attacked and there were 7 or 8 other military veterans in there who were armed too.
Unless the savages were right in front of me and took me out immediately the hunt would be on! And the way us veterans think I'd want to get "more savages" than say an "Air Force" veteran! ...
And in that [wank fantasy] anyone who is armed would be the "first responders." And since I'm not a leo I don't have to yell out "let's see your hands" or any of that nonsense, it'd just be "aquire target, aim, fire, ejaculate"
One thing for sure, I wouldn't want to be a cop in that situation, in uniform they'd stick out like a sore thumb and be picked off one by one as they arrived onscene...
uuhhhh uhhhh aaHHHHHHHH!!!!



Were you actually jerking it while you wrote that, or did you just finish watching a Die Hard marathon playing on the tee vee?

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: If you were a terrorist..... - 1/5/2010 9:03:15 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		I like GTA Vice City in freeplay mode with the weapons cheat on too.

E

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Profile   Post #: 40
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