Temporary Insanity, Universal Forces, and Punishment (Full Version)

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lovingpet -> Temporary Insanity, Universal Forces, and Punishment (1/6/2010 7:46:55 AM)

It had to happen sooner or later. I just had hoped it would be a little more black and white. I did something that has extracted his reluctant need to punish me. I figured it would be something more along the lines of stomping my foot and telling no and refusing to obey a straightforward order. Maybe even doing what I did, but in a more up yours I will do as I please attitude. Instead, it is a mired mess and, though I know what I did was wrong and deserve whatever is coming and even know that whether either is so, he will do as he pleases, I can't help but see the whole thing as just a diabocle (sp?) of untold proportions.

What I did isn't important here. It is why and under what conditions. Basically, I lost my ever loving mind. I am kidding...a little. We are engaged in something that will take multiple attempts to complete successfully and there is a time lapse to wonder about it as well. It has become an emotionally charged thing for me that we succeed. I can't do anything that will make it successful, nor really can he beyond what we are already doing. I had come to think of success as what would finally dispell any doubts he has about me, my motives, my integrity, and my willingness to travel the path he has placed before us. I was damn sure we had made it this time. We hadn't. Add to this the stress of the holidays and a situation at home that had potential to be completely devestating, and I just lost it. My first impulse after just bawling my eyes out was to pick myself up and call him. No answer. I sent him messages on all his online stuff. Nothing. For three days. On the fourth day, I cracked and that's when IT happened.

He was not as sure we had succeeded and had told me repeatedly to not get too attached to the idea. He told me when I finally fessed up and fell apart the other night that all my fears and such that I had tied to our success just were not so. He couldn't be any more sure of me or us or what our future would be. If I had paused for a few minutes I would have realized that he ALWAYS leaves his phone off on his days off unless he wants to work overtime because it is his work phone and they WILL call him in every one of his days off if he allows it to happen. His computer had crashed and he had to replace it before he ever got a single one of my messages. As far as the communication thing, we had talked through all that the very first day he was back in touch, but I didn't know how to tell him what I had done. It took a week for me to finally admit to it all.

He would have never suspected or even known of this incident. He wasn't suspicious that I was keeping something from him. There was nothing to indicate anything had happened. I could have just kept my mouth shut and forgotten about it. I couldn't though. Had I just done what I did and nothing further had come of it past the obvious temporary repercussions, to be honest, I might not have mentioned it at all. The consequences toll, however, continues to rise. He wanted to comfort me through those consequences and that didn't feel right to me. I had to bring it to him.

There's no question here really I guess. I just wonder about the whole mucked up mess. Would a "temporary insanity" sway other dominants to reconsider punishment? Does absence of that dominant presence during significant crisis and vulnerabilty excuse anything? What if that absence was out of the dominant's hands? Does coming clean count for anything? How can we keep from something like this happening again? I never wanted any of this to happen and neither did he. I just want to do better.

lovingpet



UniqueRaven -> RE: Temporary Insanity, Universal Forces, and Punishment (1/6/2010 7:56:24 AM)

i totally understand what you've posted, and i would like some time to think before i post a response.  [:)]

But i really first wanted to say stop beating yourself up.  Take a deep breath and work on re-centering.  Yes, this is a maelstrom of emotions and the only thing you can do is ride them out and move forward - wallowing doesn't help anything.  i actually realized i had a "wallowing fetish" a few years ago because when something like this happened that is exactly what i would do.  Not healthy, for sure.

Forgive yourself.  It's ok, and it will be ok, no matter what. [:)]

Sending you a big hug, and will post more later,
julie



lovingpet -> RE: Temporary Insanity, Universal Forces, and Punishment (1/6/2010 7:59:51 AM)

Thank you for this. I am plenty upset, but I am more focused on moving forward than anything else. In order to do that successfully, I have to get a handle on what went wrong and figure out how to do better. I'm in that recentering process you mentioned. I do wallow sometimes, but surprisingly this isn't one of those times. LOL The encouragement means a lot though.

lovingpet



UniqueRaven -> RE: Temporary Insanity, Universal Forces, and Punishment (1/6/2010 8:12:21 AM)

i understand, and am glad to hear that - i know how i've felt in the past about these things, and don't mean to project - i am naturally very empathic which is both a blessing and a curse. [;)]

And what i'm thinking about is the whole fact that you couldn't reach him - at all - when you had your breakdown.  That really just doesn't sit well with me - not being disparaging, just thinking about the whole series of events.  Every Owner/Master that i've had experience with, whether in my long-term relationship or in a shorter-term "dating" capacity (such as i'm doing right now) has made *sure* that i always had a way to reach him, no matter what, and most wouldn't/won't let things go more than 6 hours without hearing from me - long distance or not.  He wants responsibility to care for me, and about me, and i give that control to him, and it's wonderful and peaceful to feel so cared for.

So the fact that it seems that he was a bit casual with the fact that you should have just accepted that he was unreachable bothers me a bit.  i wonder if i'm putting too much of my own spin on things, though, which is entirely possible.  But really, it takes two people to create a breakdown like that - the whole thing could have been pre-empted if you had just had the ability to speak with him, and him soothe your fears.  So i'm thinking about this.  No intent in any way to be disparaging to your Master at all, just thinking.  [:)]

julie



mnottertail -> RE: Temporary Insanity, Universal Forces, and Punishment (1/6/2010 8:21:55 AM)

punishment for temporary insanity is temporary, know what I mean?

the idea is to inform you that temporary insanity is not an acceptable out.

Oh my master, today I decided to withdraw all our money from the bank, and I burned it with the leave piles I raked because I was mad that you didnt like the salsbury steak I made for you last night, lets just chalk this up to temporary fucktardedness honey....K, sweetie?

Yeah.



lovingpet -> RE: Temporary Insanity, Universal Forces, and Punishment (1/6/2010 8:32:47 AM)

I understand and in all honesty he was pretty upset with himself that he didn't turn on his phone or at least call and check in on me given the situation that was ongoing. I understand there wasn't much he could do about his computer going down. I even understand that he was in need of not winding up being called in to work because he had important matters he had to handle (some even about me as a matter of fact). At the same time, I knew I wasn't abandoned or anything. On rare, and I do mean rare, occasions similiar circumstances (communication, not the rest) have happened before. The consequences this time were just much higher. I needed to keep better hold of myself until he reached me. I am an adult, after all, and it was a time when he could have used for me to have been a little more capable of finding some temporary solutions rather than adding to what was already a lot of responsibility he was dealing with at the time. I'm not in his life to make it difficult and dramatic. I hope to bring him peace and make it easier for us both to get through our days. I know there are times when life is unkind and we are both commited to seeing each other through those times, but a little self accountability would have gone a long way.

We speak usually at least daily. I write an extended letter weekly per standing order in order to open up some things that are harder to deal with over an online or phone chat. We see each other as often as we can, but we are a bit of a distance, so it is usually monthly. I have kind of learned to deal with the ebbs, flows, and bumps of our routine. The upcoming move will help a lot since we will be finally under the same roof. I can't wait. First though, I've got to survive this punishment! LOL

lovingpet



Lockit -> RE: Temporary Insanity, Universal Forces, and Punishment (1/6/2010 8:33:34 AM)

((((((((((((Lovingpet)))))))))))) There is a time and place for all things... even grace. Think back to how your wonderful dominant has handled other things. Think back on how you have. He knows you. You know him. He also knows all that is going on in your life and I don't believe he would fail to understand it all as well.

While he is thinking, he is balancing it all out. Just as you are trying to do... and at the same time... handle much of what has caused you to go a bit bonkers and believe me... I don't know anyone who wouldn't in some way and at some point. He may feel you need correction in some way... but he also may feel that you need grace in the situation as well.

When I had a situation or two in life... hurt to my core... did I show grace and understanding? Yes. Other times... someone had just taken it too far, too many times and even then after time to think I did show grace and understanding. Did I use correction of some type... you bet I did, but it wasn't what they thought they deserved or what I might of thought had I not loved them and understood. Even if it is a life hard limit... one can bring in correction with love and grace and you know that.

Trust in that he can see well and has proven that he can see even what you cannot in an emotional state. Breath... trust... don't try to justify things even if there is a reason for that justification. Stop your swirling emotions and mind with the facts you do know about your dominant and what he knows about you and don't project as it is so easy to do and could be what got you into the mess to begin with. Use the good you know about him and how he handles things... to combat your need to figure it all out and panic.



lovingpet -> RE: Temporary Insanity, Universal Forces, and Punishment (1/6/2010 8:34:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

punishment for temporary insanity is temporary, know what I mean?

the idea is to inform you that temporary insanity is not an acceptable out.

Oh my master, today I decided to withdraw all our money from the bank, and I burned it with the leave piles I raked because I was mad that you didnt like the salsbury steak I made for you last night, lets just chalk this up to temporary fucktardedness honey....K, sweetie?

Yeah.


LOL!!!!

Well, unlike an episode of Law and Order, this was a tad more serious on the psychological side and far less substantial in the damages. I do understand your point, however, and well taken.

lovingpet



NihilusZero -> RE: Temporary Insanity, Universal Forces, and Punishment (1/6/2010 8:35:07 AM)

Well, first you have to base the intensity of your error off his evaluation of it. While what you have said here is certainly a normal reaction, it is distracting from the point: that he will need to figure out what processes need to be put into action in order for him to feel balanced from here on out. So, when you say if "temporary insanity" is a feasible plea...you're not addressing the issue.

It shouldn't be about you excusing what you did. And, while being able to logically explain the progression of thought/action should indeed have some ability to convey understanding to a sensible partner, it will not change how he feels and reacts to what happened.  Meaning, if you want things to get better you need to stop treating this incident by looking at it from the angle of how you can come out of it cleanest and need to view it from the angle of how demonstrably committed you are to doing precisely what he says he'll need you to do in order for him to get back to a point of comfort.

Now, on the other hand, I can't really conceive of a situation where 3 or 4 days would pass without someone's ability to get a hold of me unless I had specified ahead of time that there would be such a period of time that would pass without contact. In any sort of emotional D/s relationship, being "on call" is part of even the basest set of responsibilities I think a D-type must accept and, at very least, the discussion of the topic should always be addressed. If the s-type is supposed to be surrendering in some sort of internal fashion, it follows xhe'll need the D-type to be a pillar in times of insecurity. It seems to me there was either a lack of communication in this department or a vast misfire in seeing eye to eye as to what sorts of expectations could be made concerning being "on call" and if 3-4 days can go by with minor events causing a temporary disappearance (none of what you wrote seemed so catastrophic to me at his end that there couldn't have been a way for him to get at least a cursory message of connection in that time), you'll need to understand clearly that such is the case and that you may need an alternate support system in the future if the need calls.



lovingpet -> RE: Temporary Insanity, Universal Forces, and Punishment (1/6/2010 8:41:09 AM)

I do believe there will be a weighing of things and that he will be compassionate about this. This thing that went so askew is something we have discussed before. I would have never been in the position to have it go wrong if it wasn't something he desire I do for him (and I have come to want it too). I think there is a time for firey discipline and a time for punitive closure and I believe him wise enough to know the difference. Thank you for telling me what I already knew. Huggggs back at ya!

lovingpet



mnottertail -> RE: Temporary Insanity, Universal Forces, and Punishment (1/6/2010 8:53:27 AM)

Hey, unless I am totally not getting this.

You fucked up!!!! You trusted us!!!!! (otter to kent dorffman)

Some misunderstanding with some outta whack desire and asynchronous self-talk.

should be easy to correct with all cards on the table and everyone examining the failure in communication, desire, need and circumstance.

Your come to jesus shouldn't be too bad, all said and done.

Ron



lovingpet -> RE: Temporary Insanity, Universal Forces, and Punishment (1/6/2010 9:01:06 AM)

I'm not looking to be clean and innocent of what happened. If I wanted that, all I had to do was say nothing. I am more interested in whether a submissive's state of mind and life circumstances weigh into the determination of both guilt and type/intensity of punishment rendered. I figure for some it will and for others it wouldn't matter.

I accept whatever it is that's coming and will do so as gracefully as possible. Those are his decisions to make and enact and mine to bear as best I can for him. I have no desire to wriggle out of anything or try to argue my case. The whole senario, aside from my indiscretion, had been long since discussed and worked through, so he already knows what my "case" is. Like I said, if it hadn't been for more fallout than I had counted on occurring, I didn't feel the need to discuss it at all. There was no ill intent on my part talking about the rest and not broaching the subject of what I had done. I didn't even think I had really done wrong until this most recent consequence came to light. Then is when I knew that I had dropped the ball and needed to let him know. Maybe it is flawed processing, but I honestly didn't see the action as wrong up to this point. Now I know better and came to him immediately upon realizing it.

The lapse of communication we have both agreed was a huge factor in all this. When we communicate we do it well and deeply. It has been a point of difficulty on a practical level, however. I express my needs in this area and the reasons for them and he has been responsive to that. It is still imperfect though and, like I said above, he was quite upset with himself for not thinking about how important it was and what options were available under the circumstances to make sure I was cared for. He takes his responsibility in all this as do I. I somehow doubt it will happen again on either side.

Thanks for your honest assessment. I never asked for anyone to go easy on either of us in this.

lovingpet



lovingpet -> RE: Temporary Insanity, Universal Forces, and Punishment (1/6/2010 9:04:58 AM)

Yeah, it's not that I'm worried about it being so bad. I know he'll be fair in this and he is not one damage what is his. No fear except of that disappointment in his eyes.

lovingpet



NihilusZero -> RE: Temporary Insanity, Universal Forces, and Punishment (1/6/2010 9:34:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

Thanks for your honest assessment. I never asked for anyone to go easy on either of us in this.

lovingpet

[Yoda voice]
Temper you with 'tough love', I will, yeeeesss!
[/Yoda voice]

[:D]



lovingpet -> RE: Temporary Insanity, Universal Forces, and Punishment (1/6/2010 9:36:00 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

Thanks for your honest assessment. I never asked for anyone to go easy on either of us in this.

lovingpet

[Yoda voice]
Temper you with 'tough love', I will, yeeeesss!
[/Yoda voice]

[:D]



Hehe!!!! I gets all swooney when you speak yodaese to me! Do it again! [:D]



breatheasone -> RE: Temporary Insanity, Universal Forces, and Punishment (1/6/2010 9:43:16 AM)

Lovingpet, i'm so sorry you are having hard times. You handled no communication for three and a half days, MUCH better than i would have. For me, that alone would have ended the relationship. i sincerely hope you are able to work this all out, and that you find the peace and contentment you are looking for.



wisdomtogive -> RE: Temporary Insanity, Universal Forces, and Punishment (1/6/2010 9:43:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

Yeah, it's not that I'm worried about it being so bad. I know he'll be fair in this and he is not one damage what is his. No fear except of that disappointment in his eyes.

lovingpet


That which i outline in red is what i feel is the gist of it. Disappointment in one's Dom's eyes imho is the hardest punishment to take. It is part of being human, and for me being submissive. It just about kills me to disappoint the ones i love.



UniqueRaven -> RE: Temporary Insanity, Universal Forces, and Punishment (1/6/2010 10:04:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

Now, on the other hand, I can't really conceive of a situation where 3 or 4 days would pass without someone's ability to get a hold of me unless I had specified ahead of time that there would be such a period of time that would pass without contact. In any sort of emotional D/s relationship, being "on call" is part of even the basest set of responsibilities I think a D-type must accept and, at very least, the discussion of the topic should always be addressed. If the s-type is supposed to be surrendering in some sort of internal fashion, it follows xhe'll need the D-type to be a pillar in times of insecurity. It seems to me there was either a lack of communication in this department or a vast misfire in seeing eye to eye as to what sorts of expectations could be made concerning being "on call" and if 3-4 days can go by with minor events causing a temporary disappearance (none of what you wrote seemed so catastrophic to me at his end that there couldn't have been a way for him to get at least a cursory message of connection in that time), you'll need to understand clearly that such is the case and that you may need an alternate support system in the future if the need calls.


This is the thought process i was going through.  Thank you for explaining it so well from the D-side of things. 

lovingpet, i went off and thought while i was doing pilates and decided i really shouldn't contribute any more - i don't know enough about you, or your relationship, or your Master, and for me it really isn't my place to talk about his business.  All i can say is that you seem to be going through the right process internally to set things back on track, and trust him, and yourself, to figure things out together. 

And send you another hug.  [:)]

julie



lally2 -> RE: Temporary Insanity, Universal Forces, and Punishment (1/6/2010 10:12:43 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

It had to happen sooner or later. I just had hoped it would be a little more black and white. I did something that has extracted his reluctant need to punish me. I figured it would be something more along the lines of stomping my foot and telling no and refusing to obey a straightforward order. Maybe even doing what I did, but in a more up yours I will do as I please attitude. Instead, it is a mired mess and, though I know what I did was wrong and deserve whatever is coming and even know that whether either is so, he will do as he pleases, I can't help but see the whole thing as just a diabocle (sp?) of untold proportions.

What I did isn't important here. It is why and under what conditions. Basically, I lost my ever loving mind. I am kidding...a little. We are engaged in something that will take multiple attempts to complete successfully and there is a time lapse to wonder about it as well. It has become an emotionally charged thing for me that we succeed. I can't do anything that will make it successful, nor really can he beyond what we are already doing. I had come to think of success as what would finally dispell any doubts he has about me, my motives, my integrity, and my willingness to travel the path he has placed before us. I was damn sure we had made it this time. We hadn't. Add to this the stress of the holidays and a situation at home that had potential to be completely devestating, and I just lost it. My first impulse after just bawling my eyes out was to pick myself up and call him. No answer. I sent him messages on all his online stuff. Nothing. For three days. On the fourth day, I cracked and that's when IT happened.

He was not as sure we had succeeded and had told me repeatedly to not get too attached to the idea. He told me when I finally fessed up and fell apart the other night that all my fears and such that I had tied to our success just were not so. He couldn't be any more sure of me or us or what our future would be. If I had paused for a few minutes I would have realized that he ALWAYS leaves his phone off on his days off unless he wants to work overtime because it is his work phone and they WILL call him in every one of his days off if he allows it to happen. His computer had crashed and he had to replace it before he ever got a single one of my messages. As far as the communication thing, we had talked through all that the very first day he was back in touch, but I didn't know how to tell him what I had done. It took a week for me to finally admit to it all.

He would have never suspected or even known of this incident. He wasn't suspicious that I was keeping something from him. There was nothing to indicate anything had happened. I could have just kept my mouth shut and forgotten about it. I couldn't though. Had I just done what I did and nothing further had come of it past the obvious temporary repercussions, to be honest, I might not have mentioned it at all. The consequences toll, however, continues to rise. He wanted to comfort me through those consequences and that didn't feel right to me. I had to bring it to him.There's no question here really I guess. I just wonder about the whole mucked up mess. Would a "temporary insanity" sway other dominants to reconsider punishment? Does absence of that dominant presence during significant crisis and vulnerabilty excuse anything? What if that absence was out of the dominant's hands? Does coming clean count for anything? How can we keep from something like this happening again? I never wanted any of this to happen and neither did he. I just want to do better.

lovingpet



the whole point between a Dominant and their sub/slave is that there is honesty. in the past i have done things and afterwards realised that i had to 'fess up. it would have been easier not to, i wouldnt have had to feel ashamed and stupid while making the confession. but to hold back on something important is just as bad as telling a lie about it. fact is you have to tell them, otherwise itll just sit there chewing away and undermining the bond. like you said, he was all about making you feel better, consoling you for youre crap week and youre respect for him and youre relationship with him made it impossible not to tell him.

its up to him what he decides. and youre set for whatever that is. i think we are allowed to get things wrong, but you lost faith in him over a three day period and everything went to hell in a basket and then IT happened.

i didnt expect leniancy for what i did just because id 'fessed up. id done wrong and let him down - handing it over to him is how it gets healed.

hugx



osf -> RE: Temporary Insanity, Universal Forces, and Punishment (1/6/2010 10:35:20 AM)

quote:

the whole point between a Dominant and their sub/slave is that there is honesty. in the past i have done things and afterwards realised that i had to 'fess up. it would have been easier not to, i wouldnt have had to feel ashamed and stupid while making the confession. but to hold back on something important is just as bad as telling a lie about it. fact is you have to tell them, otherwise itll just sit there chewing away and undermining the bond. like you said, he was all about making you feel better, consoling you for youre crap week and youre respect for him and youre relationship with him made it impossible not to tell him.


the point i have with honesty is the s type should offer up honesty when requested while the d type may with what he considers good reason with hold honesty for a time he considers appropriate



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