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ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3

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ORIGINAL: Moonhead

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ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3
It would be draconian if voting rights were permanently taken away but this isn't the case.

Isn't that how the three strikes and you're out business works, though? There's a pretty big chunk of the American prison population who are only ever going to leave in a box.

I'm not a great believer in the three strikes system. So it seems more apt to get rid of it rather than use the fact it adds significant numbers to the prison population to justify voting rights for prisoners.

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ORIGINAL: Moonhead

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ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3
It would be draconian if voting rights were permanently taken away but this isn't the case.

Isn't that how the three strikes and you're out business works, though? There's a pretty big chunk of the American prison population who are only ever going to leave in a box.

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ORIGINAL: thompsonx

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ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Voting is the most basic right ?

What, more basic than not being murdered by some thug ?  To suggest people who would deny criminals the right to vote, and next the Jews, is beyond obnoxious to my way of thinking.

Its quite simple, and I dont see why you cant see it either, if you want to take part of society, take part in all of it, including the law.

As has been pointed out previously 70% of the people in prison are there on drug related charges...not rape, pillage,murder or plunder.
What kind of logic says that you are no longer competent to vote because you got caught smoking marijuana?

HST.

HST

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ORIGINAL: eyesopened

Oh, if only the competent were allowed to vote!  What a wonderful world this would be.

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ORIGINAL: philosophy

Seriously......the point about democracry......the really important point....is that it allows everyone to be a stake holder. Preventing people having a stake in society is not a good idea.

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

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ORIGINAL: philosophy

Seriously......the point about democracry......the really important point....is that it allows everyone to be a stake holder. Preventing people having a stake in society is not a good idea.

Yes in theory.....

But in practice......

Democracy hasn't achieved the desired results.

1) 50% of people voted in the last general election - far less in local elections. Hardly the population exercising a collective stake in the nation.

2) Of the 50% a fair sized chunk don't have much of a clue - the majority of people in this country play and watch sports/go to bars/go shopping and are woefully lacking in political acumen.

If anything universal enfranchisement has led to complacency and furnished the establishment with a docile population. Today's media is the 19th century standing army/police force. The unitended consequence of democracy of course is that people are looking around for something to believe in/a common cause - which could be dangerous given certain circumstances.

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ORIGINAL: DomImus

If you are convicted of a felony you lose certain rights. Some of them are returned after incarceration/supervision (voting) and some are not (firearms ownership). I think the system is fine the way it is.  

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ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Very interesting topic actually. While I have read the Constitution, I can't remember everything. I am unsure of it's position on this, mainly because their definition of a felony, or high crime differs than today. I think things were a bit more defined back then, when a crime actually meant creating a victim. I can take countless scenarios, but I'll just pick one or two for brevity's sake.

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ORIGINAL: cadenas

In practical terms, originally it was only wealthy male white landowners who could vote.

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ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3
Personally I think if you break the rules of society you shouldn't be given a say as to how society progresses. It would be draconian if voting rights were permanently taken away but this isn't the case.

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ORIGINAL: philosophy

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ORIGINAL: eyesopened

Oh, if only the competent were allowed to vote!  What a wonderful world this would be.

...er.....so why not bring back a land ownership requirement before being alloowed to vote? Or why not restrict voting to those people who have served in the military? Hell, why not just do away with voting altogether and just set up a committee of competent people to decide who works where?

Seriously......the point about democracry......the really important point....is that it allows everyone to be a stake holder. Preventing people having a stake in society is not a good idea.

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ORIGINAL: cadenas
Actually, in most states the right to vote is indeed taken away after release, and in quite a few states for life.

That issue played a major role during the "hanging chad" issues in the 2004 Presidential election in Florida (Florida bans felons from voting for life). One of the dirty tricks was to "mistakenly" put Democratic voter onto the felony list to prevent them from voting.

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ORIGINAL: nighthawk3569

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ORIGINAL: DomImus

If you are convicted of a felony you lose certain rights. Some of them are returned after incarceration/supervision (voting) and some are not (firearms ownership). I think the system is fine the way it is.  

     I agree with this...the system is fine, just as it is. However, all this is part of a bigger plan. First, they get their 'right to vote, even while in prison' restored. Then, they get their 'right to own firearms, after prison' restored. Finally, they get their 'right to own firearms, even while in prison' established. There's no end to it, once it starts.
                                                                    'hawk
 
Remember what Barney Phyfe said "Nip it. Nip it in the bud!!!"

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ORIGINAL: Icarys

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

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ORIGINAL: philosophy

Seriously......the point about democracry......the really important point....is that it allows everyone to be a stake holder. Preventing people having a stake in society is not a good idea.

Yes in theory.....

But in practice......

Democracy hasn't achieved the desired results.

1) 50% of people voted in the last general election - far less in local elections. Hardly the population exercising a collective stake in the nation.

2) Of the 50% a fair sized chunk don't have much of a clue - the majority of people in this country play and watch sports/go to bars/go shopping and are woefully lacking in political acumen.

If anything universal enfranchisement has led to complacency and furnished the establishment with a docile population. Today's media is the 19th century standing army/police force. The unitended consequence of democracy of course is that people are looking around for something to believe in/a common cause - which could be dangerous given certain circumstances.

Just because you don't choose to exercise a right doesn't mean we should take any away. That's another beautiful part of democracy and free choice. Another choice being not to participate if you don't want to.

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I was responding to Thompsonx who said:


ORIGINAL: thompsonx
As has been pointed out previously 70% of the people in prison are there on drug related charges...not rape, pillage,murder or plunder.
What kind of logic says that you are no longer competent to vote because you got caught smoking marijuana?

HST.

So I was being sarcastic to the idea that people have the right to vote based on competency. If that were the case about 99% of the stoners I know who are not in jail wouldn't be able to vote either. Voting is denied to prisoners because they made the choice to live outside a society of laws. By making that choice they freely gave up their rights under those laws. You don't think smoking pot should be illegal, then do all you can to change those laws. I happen to be one who thinks it silly for marijuana to be illegal. But I don't smoke because it is illegal. You don't want to lose your right to liberty then don't commit crimes. It's a pretty simple system.

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Democracy evolved from an uneven distribution of power and wealth. It was always envisaged that people would exercise their power (that is the whole pointof democracy). Choosing to be passive and effectively disenfranchising yourself is not democracy.