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RE: Prison voting headed to U.S. Supreme Court? State l... - 1/14/2010 4:19:06 PM   
Icarys


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I wonder if the right to vote will be achieved in time to vote for the legalization of marihuana? Seems like a good voting block, there.

BobMArleyMaster

I don't smoke but I sure as hell would vote yes..If only for the positive that the drug can bring.


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(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: Prison voting headed to U.S. Supreme Court? State l... - 1/15/2010 3:43:59 AM   
eyesopened


Posts: 2798
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From: Tampa, FL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:


I was responding to Thompsonx who said:


ORIGINAL: thompsonx
As has been pointed out previously 70% of the people in prison are there on drug related charges...not rape, pillage,murder or plunder.
What kind of logic says that you are no longer competent to vote because you got caught smoking marijuana?

HST.

So I was being sarcastic to the idea that people have the right to vote based on competency. If that were the case about 99% of the stoners I know who are not in jail wouldn't be able to vote either. Voting is denied to prisoners because they made the choice to live outside a society of laws. By making that choice they freely gave up their rights under those laws. You don't think smoking pot should be illegal, then do all you can to change those laws. I happen to be one who thinks it silly for marijuana to be illegal. But I don't smoke because it is illegal. You don't want to lose your right to liberty then don't commit crimes. It's a pretty simple system.


There are competency requirements for voting in the U.S.

HST.


I'm a registered voter.  There were no competency requirement other than to not be legallay declared mentally incapacitated.  Prisoners who do have competency hearings and a deemed competent to stand trial are the only ones who are convicted.  Prisoners who don't ask for competency hearings are considered competent to stand trial.  Therefore jail doesn't equal incompetent. 

http://www.vote411.org/bystateresult.php?state=FLTo be eligible to vote in Florida you must be:

  • A citizen of the United States
  • A resident of Florida
  • 18 years of age on or before the date of the next general election
  • Not adjudicated mentally incapacitated with respect to voting in Florida or any other state
  • Not convicted of a felony (and not had your civil rights restored)

The states I've lived in, getting caught smoking a little weed was not a felony.  Again, the system is very simple.  Don't be a criminal.  You don't commit felonies, you don't risk losing your civil rights.  Easy peasy lemon squeezy.

However, since it seems imperative that you be right, fine, you're right.  Carry on.

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Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Prison voting headed to U.S. Supreme Court? State l... - 1/15/2010 5:26:12 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3

quote:

ORIGINAL: cadenas
Actually, in most states the right to vote is indeed taken away after release, and in quite a few states for life.

That issue played a major role during the "hanging chad" issues in the 2004 Presidential election in Florida (Florida bans felons from voting for life). One of the dirty tricks was to "mistakenly" put Democratic voter onto the felony list to prevent them from voting.

Well that's obviously quite wrong if so and not recognising the rehabilitation aspect that imprisonment for crimes is aimed at achieving. I have to confess I didn’t know the US was so backwards in this respect.


The American prison system is notoriously punitive, sadly. That's something else where they're lagging behind most of the rest of the western world, along with their healthcare system.

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Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Prison voting headed to U.S. Supreme Court? State l... - 1/15/2010 9:08:56 AM   
thompsonx


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quote:

I'm a registered voter. There were no competency requirement other than to not be legallay declared mentally incapacitated.


OMG I was right and you agree that the state can declare you incompetent.

quote:

The states I've lived in, getting caught smoking a little weed was not a felony. Again, the system is very simple. Don't be a criminal. You don't commit felonies, you don't risk losing your civil rights. Easy peasy lemon squeezy.


You are driving home from work maybe a bit over the speed limit and some kid runs out in front of you and you kill the little fucker...felony vehicular manslaughter.

You have a tenth of a gram over an ounce of pot. You refuse to give up your source so you get felony sales...

Easy peasy lemon squeezy

HST


(in reply to eyesopened)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Prison voting headed to U.S. Supreme Court? State l... - 1/15/2010 11:16:20 AM   
eyesopened


Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline 		Why in the world would I ever need to be holding any marijuana of any amount?

If I kill someone with my car because of my own negligence then by all means I should go to jail.  And lose my civil rights while there.  Why should I get away with killing somone through negligence and not be held accountable????  Am I like the only person who thinks people need to be responsible for their own actions and their own choices?

You may want to fire up the bong before you reasearch what "adjudicated" means.  Might be too difficult to attempt without a little buzz.

yes you are right of course because you are always right even if you were wrong you would be right because it is impossible for you to not be right because even if you were wrong you would make sure that being wrong, was in fact right.

Really, it's okay.

< Message edited by eyesopened -- 1/15/2010 12:02:46 PM >

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Proudly owned by InkedMaster. He is the one i obey, serve, honor and love.

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(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Prison voting headed to U.S. Supreme Court? State l... - 1/16/2010 1:31:15 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

Why in the world would I ever need to be holding any marijuana of any amount?

If I kill someone with my car because of my own negligence then by all means I should go to jail.  And lose my civil rights while there.  Why should I get away with killing somone through negligence and not be held accountable????  Am I like the only person who thinks people need to be responsible for their own actions and their own choices?

You may want to fire up the bong before you reasearch what "adjudicated" means.  Might be too difficult to attempt without a little buzz.

yes you are right of course because you are always right even if you were wrong you would be right because it is impossible for you to not be right because even if you were wrong you would make sure that being wrong, was in fact right.

Really, it's okay.



I never suggested that you or anyone else get away with anything. I was pointing out that anyone can become a felon. I notice that you agree to you loosing your civil rights while you are in prison. Does your making of that point in that fashion indicate that you do not feel that you should be stripped of your voting rights because of this theoretical incident?
Your passive aggressive stance concerning "being right" seems to hold a central position in your arguement. I am more interested in discussion and learning as opposed to confrontation and disparagement.


HST.

(in reply to eyesopened)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Prison voting headed to U.S. Supreme Court? State l... - 1/16/2010 2:10:39 PM   
Lorr47


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

When you are in prison you lose certain rights. Voting is one of them. I you want to vote, don't murder or rape someone.


And if you are a good republican like Steinbenner (sic) of the Yankees you can pay a princely sum to obtain a pardon and make the entire matter moot.  Of course everyone has the connections and money to get a pardon or is that the grounds for discrimination?

(in reply to servantforuse)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Prison voting headed to U.S. Supreme Court? State l... - 1/17/2010 4:07:20 AM   
eyesopened


Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

Why in the world would I ever need to be holding any marijuana of any amount?

If I kill someone with my car because of my own negligence then by all means I should go to jail.  And lose my civil rights while there.  Why should I get away with killing somone through negligence and not be held accountable????  Am I like the only person who thinks people need to be responsible for their own actions and their own choices?

You may want to fire up the bong before you reasearch what "adjudicated" means.  Might be too difficult to attempt without a little buzz.

yes you are right of course because you are always right even if you were wrong you would be right because it is impossible for you to not be right because even if you were wrong you would make sure that being wrong, was in fact right.

Really, it's okay.



I never suggested that you or anyone else get away with anything. I was pointing out that anyone can become a felon. I notice that you agree to you loosing your civil rights while you are in prison. Does your making of that point in that fashion indicate that you do not feel that you should be stripped of your voting rights because of this theoretical incident?
Your passive aggressive stance concerning "being right" seems to hold a central position in your arguement. I am more interested in discussion and learning as opposed to confrontation and disparagement.


HST.


I'll try to be more clear.  Voting is a civil right.  I made the point in this fashion to point out that one does not just lose the right to vote but most certainly I would expect to lose my right to vote should my actions and my choices put me in jail. 

I'm not buying the argument that anyone can become a felon.  Only those people who choose to break the law and choose to live recklessly.

_____________________________

Proudly owned by InkedMaster. He is the one i obey, serve, honor and love.

No one is honored for what they've received. Honor is the reward for what has been given.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Prison voting headed to U.S. Supreme Court? State l... - 1/17/2010 10:24:07 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		Aren't the people who received payouts from Bernie Madoff's pyramid scheme technically felons?

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
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(in reply to eyesopened)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Prison voting headed to U.S. Supreme Court? State l... - 1/18/2010 4:38:21 AM   
eyesopened


Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Aren't the people who received payouts from Bernie Madoff's pyramid scheme technically felons?


I'm not a lawyer so I don't know what the law says about this.  However, if gambling is illegal it's not just the people who set up the illegal games who are responsible but also the gamblers placing their bets.  If the police raid a dog-fight, everybody is going to jail, not just those with a dog in the fight.  It's part of recklessness.  No one holds a gun to your head and forces you to participate in illegal activities.   Ignorance of the law has never been a valid excuse.  How the prosecuters deal with these is on a case by case basis.  I subscribe to R.A.C.K. philosophy in my personal life.  There may be risks in what one does.  Be aware.

_____________________________

Proudly owned by InkedMaster. He is the one i obey, serve, honor and love.

No one is honored for what they've received. Honor is the reward for what has been given.

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Prison voting headed to U.S. Supreme Court? State l... - 1/18/2010 6:12:27 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		That doesn't apply in that case, though. Surely you've seen all the bleating from rich idiots bemoaning that they didn't know the lad was on the fiddle?

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to eyesopened)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Prison voting headed to U.S. Supreme Court? State l... - 1/19/2010 9:03:12 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		I'm not buying the argument that anyone can become a felon. Only those people who choose to break the law and choose to live recklessly.

The question I asked was do you feel that if you were convicted of this theoretical crime that you should loose your voting rights forever, not just while in prison?
My theoretical crime is pretty clear proof that anyone can become a felon.
Willful ignorance is it's own reward.

HST

(in reply to eyesopened)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Prison voting headed to U.S. Supreme Court? State l... - 1/19/2010 9:23:21 PM   
PilotPTK


Posts: 50
Joined: 2/6/2006
Status: offline 		First thing first..

Even after it has been said several times, not a single person has contradicted it. The United States of America is NOT a democracy. Absolutely, positively, without a doubt is not a democracy.

The United States of America is a "Constitutionally Limited Republic".

Democracy = Rule by Majority
Republic = Rule by Law

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to eat.
Democracy is two poor men and a rich man voting on who should pay for dinner.


Having said that, the fact that no one corrected all the posts about our "Democracy" suggests to me that no one involved in this conversation is qualified to be.

JMHO,
Ben

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Prison voting headed to U.S. Supreme Court? State l... - 1/20/2010 4:50:48 AM   
eyesopened


Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

I'm not buying the argument that anyone can become a felon. Only those people who choose to break the law and choose to live recklessly.

The question I asked was do you feel that if you were convicted of this theoretical crime that you should loose your voting rights forever, not just while in prison?
My theoretical crime is pretty clear proof that anyone can become a felon.
Willful ignorance is it's own reward.

HST


I answered your question.  Now you change the question to add "forever".  The thread was about the right to vote while in prison.  I've never been to prison.  I've never been arrested.  But from what I've read, a felon can vote after he or she has been released from prison.  They do lose their right to keep and bear arms. 

The examples you gave, holding over an ounce of pot and driving over the speed limit and as a result killing someone could not be considered willful ignorance.  In each case, the person knows what they are doing is against the law.  It's not clear proof of anything remotely close to anyone can become a felon.

I've tried really hard to have a civil discussion but once again it seems so very imperative that you be right, even if you are not.  If it's that important to you, then all the discussion, proof, case law, or anything else is not going to change your rightness in your own mind. 

_____________________________

Proudly owned by InkedMaster. He is the one i obey, serve, honor and love.

No one is honored for what they've received. Honor is the reward for what has been given.

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Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Prison voting headed to U.S. Supreme Court? State l... - 1/20/2010 12:57:07 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PilotPTK

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to eat.
Democracy is two poor men and a rich man voting on who should pay for dinner.



Yes.....in a country of 3 people.

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Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Prison voting headed to U.S. Supreme Court? State l... - 1/20/2010 2:05:04 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: PilotPTK

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to eat.
Democracy is two poor men and a rich man voting on who should pay for dinner.



Yes.....in a country of 3 people.

I'd suggest those are terrible examples as they both show democracy working and everybody voting. When the fuck does that ever happen?

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Prison voting headed to U.S. Supreme Court? State l... - 1/20/2010 4:01:52 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

Why in the world would I ever need to be holding any marijuana of any amount?

If I kill someone with my car because of my own negligence then by all means I should go to jail.  And lose my civil rights while there.  Why should I get away with killing somone through negligence and not be held accountable????  Am I like the only person who thinks people need to be responsible for their own actions and their own choices?

You may want to fire up the bong before you reasearch what "adjudicated" means.  Might be too difficult to attempt without a little buzz.

yes you are right of course because you are always right even if you were wrong you would be right because it is impossible for you to not be right because even if you were wrong you would make sure that being wrong, was in fact right.

Really, it's okay.



I never suggested that you or anyone else get away with anything. I was pointing out that anyone can become a felon. I notice that you agree to you loosing your civil rights while you are in prison. Does your making of that point in that fashion indicate that you do not feel that you should be stripped of your voting rights because of this theoretical incident?
Your passive aggressive stance concerning "being right" seems to hold a central position in your arguement. I am more interested in discussion and learning as opposed to confrontation and disparagement.


HST.



Suuuure you are.

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 97
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