RE: Crossing the thin gray line

RE: Crossing the thin gray line (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion

Message

osf -> RE: Crossing the thin gray line (1/8/2010 8:42:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lally2 i want youre bunny raddit and i want him now!! [:)] i have scads of bunny rabbits out back, they live with the wild turkeys and deer

LillyoftheVally -> RE: Crossing the thin gray line (1/8/2010 9:09:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomImus I think an open forum is an open forum but it's a two way street. If someone is allowed the freedom to post about kink X then anyone else should also have the freedom to offer their comment about kink X, whatever it may be. On the surface it would seem logical for people to avoid threads that push all their wrong buttons but we know that does not always happen. For just about every kink there is out there you could probably find someone who can offer up some painful connection to it. I am not sure I always agree with this. IC has a ykiok policy which means that people can't wander around kink bashing, though it can be over used I think the premise is good. Ideally sites such as these should be a safe place where people feel able to express their desires and gain solace in the fact that they are not the only people to have them, the ability to feel less 'weird' is something good about open forums. If people wander around calling everyone who engage in a kink that they are not into freaks then it prevents people from being able to talk about them. It is a strange thing but people desire more than anything to be accepted even among a group of strangers, if the people are also known in scene circles then it makes it harder to divulge interests or ask burning questions. Sure it wont prevent people from saying that adult babies are freaks or that blood play is wrong but ideally this would be a place where people don't get made to feel that way, a sanctuary away from people who throw scorn on their desires. I am not advocating censorship here, not at all. What I am saying is I do not understand the need to shit on people, if there is a kink you are not into what does your saying 'im not into that' add to the discussion, what does saying 'thats weird' add? My thought is so long as all involved are consenting adults then I couldn't give a shit what they get up to.

LafayetteLady -> RE: Crossing the thin gray line (1/8/2010 9:33:18 AM)
For the most part, the "your kink is ok" even though it might not be my kink if reasonable. But it can be pushed to far. When I see people who want to engage in things that really go beyond kink into something very dangerous (the guy wanting someone to castrate him comes to mind), it isn't unreasonable to tell someone that they really need to rethink what they want. Of course, there is a difference between pointing out reasons why it might be a bad idea and just telling the guy he's fucking nuts. The Master/slave thing as black/white can be offensive to some, but still not "wrong." On the other hand, it can be wrong as well. I remember a young black man who had come here and said how he was raised to believe that because he was black, he was "meant" to be a slave. That was not kink anymore, it was someone who damaged someone from a young age. "Acting it out" in a BDSM context would just perpetuate the damage. Re-enacting a past trauma CAN be a good thing. Where I have often seen the problems with those posts is that the women (because it is typically women) have been getting encouragement from their dominant to do this. By encouragement, I don't mean the s-type brought it up and the dominant has encouraged them to explore in a way they feel comfortable. I mean that too often the "encouragement" is to "advise" them that the re-enactment will make it all better. Unless that dominant is a therapist (specializing in therapy for that trauma), they are going on a slippery slope. I have nothing against the re-enactments, but they aren't going to be productive for everyone. That is where I see the problem, when the encouragement seems to try to imply that this is the best way for someone to get over it. Even for those who want the re-enactment, I would always advise that they be very careful, because while it may feel like the way to take back their power, it could also easily go the other way. When someone posts about a sensitive subject where they are discussing their fear, etc. It is grossly inappropriate for someone to jump in with the comments that they believe are "witty." That's what annoys me more than anything, some people's inability to see a subject as serious enough that they should restrain themselves from making a joke.

Vrothu -> RE: Crossing the thin gray line (1/8/2010 10:15:19 AM)
Hello A/all First post here, so I will try to remain relevant and on topic. First I would like to make a distinction here between RL Rape and Rape Play. In My opinion these are two Very different things. In the context of RL Rape; The vast majority of the time the act of rape is used as a weapon to cause both physical and mental Harm, along with (typically) a horrendous beating. In the context of Rape Play; The scene is typically a highly charged example of a sub submitting to a Dom. WITHOUT the intent of causing physical or mental Harm. Following that, I feel that rape play is no different than any other form of play out there. In any thing short of a TPE M/s relationship it MUST be approached like any other play, with negotiation and consent. Now in a TPE M/s relationship it is the Masters Duty and Responsibility to assess any and all potential negative affects that act might have on his slave, and decide if this would be harmful to His/Her slave. And He/She would be held accountable for their decision. (At least in my neck of the woods they would be) I understand many people feel that this is a controversial type of play. In all honesty I can see why. However with consent or responsibility who am I to judge? W/we all learned very early with our introductions into the lifestyle that if something offends U/us, to not participate or watch. Now of course there are types of play I find offensive, and as a result I do not participate or watch them. However my personal convictions do not give me the right to pass judgment on them. (Assuming Consent and Responsibility) As a Dom that has participated in consensual Rape Play, And has been asked to participate with others. I am EXTEREAMLY hesitant to engage in this type of play. It’s only after I have a very good grasp of the sub’s personality and history will I agree. I absolutely REFUSE to cause harm. Adam

Acer49 -> RE: Crossing the thin gray line (1/8/2010 10:16:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: allthatjaz I think we pretty much pride ourselves that we are open minded enough to talk about anything BDSM related. Some things still may revolt or frighten us and on here we have a right to say that we love it, hate it or are indifferent to it. There are particular subjects where we tread the thin gray line. Lets take play rape as an example of that. some women on these boards have been through horrific real life ordeals. Some of those women are offended at the thought of 'play rape' whilst others that have been through similar ordeals want to re-enact their ordeal in some way. There is nothing wrong with either but should the women that wish to re-enact say nothing because it effects the women that are offended? I know that I said in my first paragraph that we all have the right to state our view and I stand by that but when we get onto subjects like this its like walking on rice paper. There was a thread a little time back where someone stated she was into a certain type of play (not rape but something that could of stemmed from a past trauma) I immediately related to her kink and so followed the thread but decided to say nothing. Many people came to that thread and voiced rl experiences. It was clear that many of them where offended and the woman in question was told by a few that if she had suffered this trauma in rl then she would never go down this route. I disagreed because I had been a victim of this very thing, I think this woman probably had too, and yet I choose to go down that very route within the darker side of my kink. As the thread went on it was obvious that she was feeling more and more guilty. I was feeling more and more guilty and yet why should I/we? Most of us go through a period of guilt over a past trauma. We heal in different ways and have our own coping mechanisms that could consist of never telling a soul, telling everyone or telling people that they feel the need to go back to that dark place with a sane and trustworthy partner. For the later, do you think it should be something that we can discuss here or do you think it upsets too many people? of course we can't ever really stop it being discussed on an open forum and personally I don't for a minute believe we should. I would be interested on other opinions? People should be free to post whatever they want provided they are not attacking another poster. Disclaimers are nice and may defer some, but if one is bound and determined to be an ass, all the disclaimers in the world will not prevent that. Posters have to be prepared for replies of that nature.

NihilusZero -> RE: Crossing the thin gray line (1/8/2010 10:32:28 AM)
Gotta love it when everyone else wants you to be more 'empathetic' to their feelings at the very cost of your own. [img]http://www.robguimaraes.com/s/rolleyes.gif[/img]

mnottertail -> RE: Crossing the thin gray line (1/8/2010 10:33:38 AM)
I thought this was a go navy thread. outta here.

LadyPact -> RE: Crossing the thin gray line (1/8/2010 11:18:14 AM)
Excellent topic. I hope what I have to say will enhance the discussion. There are certain kinds of play that I tend to curtail for Myself in public venues. The sadist in Me loves things such as resistance and role play. When it comes to the edgier parts of these types of play, I'm apt to leave them at home. I make this choice because, even though I could bend over backwards attempting to maintain control of the observation of such, speak with every DM and patron on the premises, I don't know who is walking in the door in the middle of such a scene. Could the person who walked in turn themselves around and walk right back out? Sure they could. At the same time, the damage might have already been done. I don't ask that anyone make this same choice. However, I do because it is what fits Me best. Discussion of such topics, I view differently. In My view, if a person out there is going to get the value of a thread, they are going to start at the original post. If they jump in on page ten, without ever having read page one, they take upon themselves the responsibility of what they find there. I do agree that the writer of the original, out of courtesy, should put a disclaimer on threads if such material has a greater possibility of being disturbing to the reader. There are threads that I have created where I have done this Myself. (I will freely admit that I haven't done it always.) At times, there will also be instances where I have done so in the middle of the thread because I know that My contribution in it may possibly touch a nerve in someone. It's not above Me to say, "please past this post by if......." I parallel it the same as getting that pre-approval of the DMs and patrons at the club in those times that I want to do the darker stuff. They have the chance to leave before it begins and not come in somewhere in the middle. At times, I think we try to separate ourselves too much. If we were talking about a kink such as public humiliation, the first thing that most of us chime in with is that we shouldn't involve the non consenting vanilla public. So, how do we leap from that and decide that just because we're talking about kinky people, all exposure to all things should just be accepted? Suddenly, we're going to carry the banner of MKINYK but My kink is ok and it's cool that I'm exposing you to it, whether you wanted to be a part of it or not. I'm not abdocating sensorship here. In fact, I'd love to participate in some of the discussions that may be a bit edgier than others. At the same time, I want to extend just as much courtesy out there to the kink world as I want to for the vanilla world.

IronBear -> RE: Crossing the thin gray line (1/8/2010 12:37:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail I thought this was a go navy thread. outta here. G'day Ron me old mate.. Actually old son, I thought it was a Civil War thread and was ready to start playing Dixie, waving the Reb Flag and charge into battle....

myotherself -> RE: Crossing the thin gray line (1/8/2010 12:42:42 PM)
[/quick hijack] quote: ORIGINAL: Vrothu In the context of RL Rape; The vast majority of the time the act of rape is used as a weapon to cause both physical and mental Harm, along with (typically) a horrendous beating. Adam Just to clarify...a 'horrendous beating' is not typical in rape. It happens, that's true, but it's not necessarily typical. In many cases the threat of violence or some other coercion is enough for the rapist to achieve his ends. Women are told to 'do what you have to do to survive', and for many that means acquiesce so that they are not beaten, maimed or killed. While some physical damage is common, significant beatings are not so common. Many rape victims show no outside evidence of the assault...doesn't mean it didn't happen. Just means they were smart, and survived. [/hijack over] Back to your regular programming [:)]

AlexandraLynch -> RE: Crossing the thin gray line (1/8/2010 2:17:35 PM)
I think it's possible to have reenactment of parts of traumas or hot issues within society and use it in such a manner that we defang it and empower ourselves, sub and dominant alike. But that is emotional nitroglycerin, and must be handled just as carefully. Certainly we here are all doing it to some degree as coercion and power and sexuality and role all interplay in the real world in inescapable ways. I do a hell of a lot of submission in my everyday world to some very physically painful consequences of the current inequities in the world. (For starters, we can start with the fact that he who has the gold makes the rules.) By exerting control, and submitting willingly to the jointly agreed upon rules of play, I grapple with how I handle agency and power and control and learn things about myself every time I play. One potent edgeplay example for me is humiliation. I grew up with extensive emotional abuse, and have spent many years making very sure I was never in a position where I could do that to someone else, for I feared what was inside of me. By doing humiliation play with my slave, who clearly delights in it, and is strong enough to tell me when enough is enough, I am learning that what I thought was a monster within...is a paper tiger. It is under my control, and I do not worry so much now that I will misuse power over someone and put them in the position I was in. Unless, of course, they ask nicely. (evil grin)

NibbyJibby -> RE: Crossing the thin gray line (1/8/2010 3:35:49 PM)
In my humble opinion many are too judgemental and it stifles comments. Some are narrow minded, others believe their perspective is the only correct perspective. If it is sincere thought and comment in a open forum i for one prefer to be tolerant and garner from it what i can even if i disagree or it offends me. Some may be offended or hurt by certain topics however forums are a excellent venue for perspective, assistance and to learn. What is trauma to one may be consoling to another... they may be with need to share or vent. As for kink, all aspects i am not into but never would i deny another the right to express or convey. I am with option & ability to remain and to gain; or to comment and create awareness... also with option to ignore and walk away. Who am i to chastise or to scold? We all are with privilege to state our views, however i feel if the poster is sincere then tolerance is called for.

MarcEsadrian -> RE: Crossing the thin gray line (1/8/2010 3:53:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: allthatjaz Some things still may revolt or frighten us and on here we have a right to say that we love it, hate it or are indifferent to it. There are particular subjects where we tread the thin gray line. Lets take play rape as an example of that. Some women on these boards have been through horrific real life ordeals. Some of those women are offended at the thought of 'play rape' whilst others that have been through similar ordeals want to re-enact their ordeal in some way. There is nothing wrong with either but should the women that wish to re-enact say nothing because it effects the women that are offended? A very pertinent question for the times, Jaz. For me, the answer is an emphatic no. The strength of those who come together under the quilt of alternative lifestyles is just that: alternative ways of living and being. When this collective firmament becomes a place where we can no longer speak for fear of being beaten by the cudgel of ridicule or moralizing, we have essentially lost the impetus that built forums such as these (now aren't I naive!) in the first place, and might as well take our conversation to the coffee and donuts gathering in the rectory after mass. It would do a lot of good if people stopped being so sensitive, self-important and uptight on message boards. I know such places are the first arenas where newcomers arrive—cloaked in relative anonymity—to challenge their intellectual and moral assumptions. Those types, so long as they possess some semblance of an open mind, don't end up causing any long-term trouble, really. It's the cliquey, passive aggressive cult of personality types who have spent years on the boards dolling out snarky mediocrity that seem persuasive in the negative from time to time. When they get up on a soap box to condemn something "offensive" to their sensibilities, a veritable dog piling of yes people begins, and the possibility of intellectually exploring an idea is lost in the numbers game.

NuevaVida -> RE: Crossing the thin gray line (1/8/2010 6:05:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: allthatjaz I think we pretty much pride ourselves that we are open minded enough to talk about anything BDSM related. Some things still may revolt or frighten us and on here we have a right to say that we love it, hate it or are indifferent to it. There are particular subjects where we tread the thin gray line. Lets take play rape as an example of that. some women on these boards have been through horrific real life ordeals. Some of those women are offended at the thought of 'play rape' whilst others that have been through similar ordeals want to re-enact their ordeal in some way. There is nothing wrong with either but should the women that wish to re-enact say nothing because it effects the women that are offended? I know that I said in my first paragraph that we all have the right to state our view and I stand by that but when we get onto subjects like this its like walking on rice paper. There was a thread a little time back where someone stated she was into a certain type of play (not rape but something that could of stemmed from a past trauma) I immediately related to her kink and so followed the thread but decided to say nothing. Many people came to that thread and voiced rl experiences. It was clear that many of them where offended and the woman in question was told by a few that if she had suffered this trauma in rl then she would never go down this route. I disagreed because I had been a victim of this very thing, I think this woman probably had too, and yet I choose to go down that very route within the darker side of my kink. As the thread went on it was obvious that she was feeling more and more guilty. I was feeling more and more guilty and yet why should I/we? Most of us go through a period of guilt over a past trauma. We heal in different ways and have our own coping mechanisms that could consist of never telling a soul, telling everyone or telling people that they feel the need to go back to that dark place with a sane and trustworthy partner. For the later, do you think it should be something that we can discuss here or do you think it upsets too many people? of course we can't ever really stop it being discussed on an open forum and personally I don't for a minute believe we should. I would be interested on other opinions? I think there is no way of changing or controlling how people are going to respond to what someone else is saying (if only). I learned long ago - It's all in the delivery. There are indeed some "taboo" type subjects out that that cause strong reactions. I feel it is my job as the "presenter" to present to the "audience" in a way that is more likely to return the type of feedback I am looking for. Not always easy, and certainly not always successful, but it does raise my odds a bit.

IronBear -> RE: Crossing the thin gray line (1/9/2010 12:19:39 AM)
I've watched for a time some really hairy interrogation scenes at play parties and to be sure I walked out of that room and was in need of a cigarette and a good single malt scotch as the scene way way too close to my vivid memories of my treatment at the not so kind hands of the VC in 'Nam and in the not so gentle hands of some Security Police in S/America when I was a guest (in both cases) for a relatively short time.. Yet, I will nay decry the rights of those taking part in the scene to do what they were doing especially as I know them and know it was all consensual.

Elisabella -> RE: Crossing the thin gray line (1/9/2010 12:40:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NihilusZero Gotta love it when everyone else wants you to be more 'empathetic' to their feelings at the very cost of your own. [img]http://www.robguimaraes.com/s/rolleyes.gif[/img] You need to give yourself points for this.

allthatjaz -> RE: Crossing the thin gray line (1/9/2010 1:44:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact Excellent topic. I hope what I have to say will enhance the discussion. There are certain kinds of play that I tend to curtail for Myself in public venues. The sadist in Me loves things such as resistance and role play. When it comes to the edgier parts of these types of play, I'm apt to leave them at home. I make this choice because, even though I could bend over backwards attempting to maintain control of the observation of such, speak with every DM and patron on the premises, I don't know who is walking in the door in the middle of such a scene. Could the person who walked in turn themselves around and walk right back out? Sure they could. At the same time, the damage might have already been done. I don't ask that anyone make this same choice. However, I do because it is what fits Me best. This is where you and I differ greatly. If I went to a spanking club then I wouldn't hang a guy on flesh hooks but if the spanking club happen to turn up at a BDSM club then I won't curb what I am doing just in case it upsets them. I have to smile at the memories of a particular performance I was doing in BDSM club. I dragged a guy across the floor on a collar and leash who had the words 'sick pup' written on his body in blood before putting shark hooks in his back and suspending him 4ft in the air. What I didn't know is the local spanking club had closed early and a whole coach load of them had decided to brave the club. The DM's had spotted them and warned them that they may find this upsetting but curiosity and morbid fascination had them standing right at the front! After the performance I was approached by many in this crowd with comments like 'wow, so this is what goes on in a BDSM club!' and 'your one scary woman!' but the comment that really sticks out in my mind is a guy dressed in baby clothes and a diaper. He told me that the performance had been upsetting for him because it triggered memories of his mum hanging him by his clothes on a coat hook when he was naughty.

allthatjaz -> RE: Crossing the thin gray line (1/9/2010 2:30:13 AM)
Vrothu, whilst I understand what your saying, especially regarding the cautions of going into certain types of play, we have had many posts on this site regarding the sort of thing your talking about. It usually ends up with a mixture of good bad and ugly. You just can't get people agreeing on something this edgy. A post about consensual rape play is very predictable because your very quickly going to have someone coming forward and mentioning a rl unconsensual experience and how this sort of play offends them and belittles what happened to them in the real world. An immediate reaction to this is pity and guilt from other posters and at this point the post will either end or deviate in another direction. What I was saying in the starting post is that many amongst us that desire 'rape play games' have been through equally horrific rl experiences and just as it is common for a rape victim to recoil in shock horror at this sort of post, it is also common for a rape victim to desire a re-play with a consensual and understanding partner. Its a huge divide where those that recoil add guilt to those that wish to re-play and those that wish to re-play insult those that recoil. I also worry that past victims that join these sort of threads could reveal more than they ever intended to in a desperation to get there message across and the wrong response or no response could unleash all sorts of triggers. I really don't believe there is anything we can do about it and these threads will keep cropping up again and again.

Level -> RE: Crossing the thin gray line (1/9/2010 3:42:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: allthatjaz There is nothing wrong with either but should the women that wish to re-enact say nothing because it effects the women that are offended? If it hurts or offends, they should not read the thread in question; a simple enough solution. While I certainly have empathy for anyone that has been raped, especially if it's a recent matter, but that starts to come to a halt when they attempt to stifle discussion.

lally2 -> RE: Crossing the thin gray line (1/9/2010 4:22:24 AM)
.i nearly posted this earlier then deleted it, but i am going to post it - a while back on bondage someone wrote to ask if there was anywhere else that they could get advice and help on stuff. almost everyone on the thread steered them away from collarme because they thought it was cliquie and unfriendly. i think i was the only one who suggested that wasnt the case. i think thats a big shame since there is so much collective knowledge here and some genuinely lovely people who regularly post. but for the minority who seem to derive pleasure from getting snidey and unpleasant i believe that this is one of the better places to come for advice about stuff. but... and this might be a bit contentious. i for one do not wish to see BDSM thrown in with all and sundry. paedophiles, snuff, animals, fantasists involving non-concensual adults and there are possibly others i dont know about, they are the obvious ones though and some level of censorship by us as people who live this lifestyle according to the safe, sane, concensual dictum are, i think, beholden to repel all borders in those areas. but generally i agree with level, if it offends, hurts, upsets, will provoke unproductive comments then people should just avoid the thread and leave it to the people who have something worth saying.

Page: << < prev 1 [2] 3 4 5 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.15625