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RE: what is the most difficult thing - 1/9/2010 1:28:37 PM   
sirsholly


Posts: 42360
Joined: 9/7/2007
From: Quietville
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quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

not going to argue the point but we as a group seem to have a much greater failure rate than nilla folks

i'll just let that be my last point
YOU as an INDIVIDUAL have a high failure rate. You have no right to speak for me or anyone else. Do not try to make your failures a community affair.


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(in reply to osf)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: what is the most difficult thing - 1/9/2010 1:31:43 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

not going to argue the point but we as a group seem to have a much greater failure rate than nilla folks

i'll just let that be my last point

Exactly how are you arriving at this conclusion based on statistical information?


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to osf)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: what is the most difficult thing - 1/9/2010 1:54:33 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

not going to argue the point but we as a group seem to have a much greater failure rate than nilla folks

i'll just let that be my last point


I never said they had a greater failure rate..only the reason why so many do fail in the first place.

(in reply to osf)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: what is the most difficult thing - 1/9/2010 1:59:18 PM   
osf


Posts: 3288
Joined: 10/19/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

not going to argue the point but we as a group seem to have a much greater failure rate than nilla folks

i'll just let that be my last point

Exactly how are you arriving at this conclusion based on statistical information?



empirical observation over many years

_____________________________

all around nice guy and creative misogynist

i'm not very skilled so i just hit harder

i want a woman to make into the woman she never wanted to become

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: what is the most difficult thing - 1/9/2010 2:38:39 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		I'm wondering how you base your opinion on such.  There are plenty of folks out there in non kinky land who date, become exclusive, and then break up.  I see no possible way to determine that one group (non kinky rather than kinky or in the reverse) has a higher success rate than the other.  Your observation may be completely different than someone who carries the opposite opinion.  Neither of which are being based on any hard data, and rather are being based on personal influences.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to osf)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: what is the most difficult thing - 1/9/2010 2:44:54 PM   
osf


Posts: 3288
Joined: 10/19/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I'm wondering how you base your opinion on such.  There are plenty of folks out there in non kinky land who date, become exclusive, and then break up.  I see no possible way to determine that one group (non kinky rather than kinky or in the reverse) has a higher success rate than the other.  Your observation may be completely different than someone who carries the opposite opinion.  Neither of which are being based on any hard data, and rather are being based on personal influences.

do you know what empirical means?

_____________________________

all around nice guy and creative misogynist

i'm not very skilled so i just hit harder

i want a woman to make into the woman she never wanted to become

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: what is the most difficult thing - 1/9/2010 6:25:33 PM   
drtygrl


Posts: 29
Joined: 4/8/2008
Status: offline 		mental submission. I was all about the physical and had a really hard time with it

(in reply to osf)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: what is the most difficult thing - 1/9/2010 8:15:51 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone

quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

The most difficult thing that I have had to do in my relationship is to wait for immigration approval and live apart. That is really a no brainer for us. Outside of that, the most difficult thing I had to do was let him know that choices he made were harming me and our relationship.

Knight's Kyra

Yeah, this one is kicking my ass too.... i'm glad you figured it out.



I think it clicked for her when she realized that this relationship was just as important to me and Alandra as it was to her. Knowing that I wanted what was best for the relationship helped her to take the steps to help me to do just that.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to breatheasone)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: what is the most difficult thing - 1/9/2010 8:17:30 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

not going to argue the point but we as a group seem to have a much greater failure rate than nilla folks

i'll just let that be my last point
YOU as an INDIVIDUAL have a high failure rate. You have no right to speak for me or anyone else. Do not try to make your failures a community affair.




It's easier to look in the mirror when you can blame someone else for the state of your life!

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to sirsholly)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: what is the most difficult thing - 1/9/2010 8:29:01 PM   
JonnieBoy


Posts: 1468
Joined: 4/22/2009
From: Cymru
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: osf


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I'm wondering how you base your opinion on such.  There are plenty of folks out there in non kinky land who date, become exclusive, and then break up.  I see no possible way to determine that one group (non kinky rather than kinky or in the reverse) has a higher success rate than the other.  Your observation may be completely different than someone who carries the opposite opinion.  Neither of which are being based on any hard data, and rather are being based on personal influences.

do you know what empirical means?


I took it to mean (in this case) ... you're claiming to be quackish ... do you know what quackish means ?)

Pirate

(in reply to osf)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: what is the most difficult thing - 1/9/2010 8:42:17 PM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone
quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists
the most difficult thing I had to do was let him know that choices he made were harming me and our relationship.


Yeah, this one is kicking my ass too.... i'm glad you figured it out.


In a lot of ways what was so tough was the question, 'is this really harming me or do I just hate it'. The harm wasn't coming from something he was doing per se, but was from how I perceived what he was doing. The pain and stress from my perception got me boxed in a corner that I saw no way out of; I was too busy trying to manage my own pain that I didn't work on changing my perception. He then decided to take a different path and now I am where he wants me.

When I was able to answer that going the way things were was going to harm me, then I had to get the courage to tell him. The challenge there was in not wanting to take away his authority and the fear that it would mean the end of our relationship. I didn't want to change who he was and I didn't want to live without him in my life. It was a scary thing.

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to breatheasone)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: what is the most difficult thing - 1/9/2010 9:30:30 PM   
breatheasone


Posts: 4004
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists


quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone
quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists
the most difficult thing I had to do was let him know that choices he made were harming me and our relationship.


Yeah, this one is kicking my ass too.... i'm glad you figured it out.


In a lot of ways what was so tough was the question, 'is this really harming me or do I just hate it'. The harm wasn't coming from something he was doing per se, but was from how I perceived what he was doing. The pain and stress from my perception got me boxed in a corner that I saw no way out of; I was too busy trying to manage my own pain that I didn't work on changing my perception. He then decided to take a different path and now I am where he wants me.

When I was able to answer that going the way things were was going to harm me, then I had to get the courage to tell him. The challenge there was in not wanting to take away his authority and the fear that it would mean the end of our relationship. I didn't want to change who he was and I didn't want to live without him in my life. It was a scary thing.

Knight's Kyra

Yes, i can well understand your fear. And yes, i am sure it is i, that needs to change, Master tells me i can say anything to Him with respect, i do that. With difficult things, i even let Him know this is hard for me to say when i begin, so He has as much information as possible, about where i am as He listens to me. What i hope Master remembers, is that, even though i know i have an "open door," walking through it can be hard. Sometimes i NEED His encouragement, and/or help breaking that threshold. So my courage is going to be needed for the talking part, and its going to be needed for the Changing my perception part.

After i have spoken whats on my heart, and mind to Him, i kinda wait to see what He does, or perhaps responds is a better word. He is always glad that i came to Him. My most difficult thing is adjusting my perception of Masters actions, or inaction's to what i have told Him. i am very hesitant to bring stuff up that i have brought up before, thats also another big fear issue for me. Because part of me knows that Master may think i am bringing it up again because it wasn't addressed in a way i may have expected. So at that point i need to adjust my perception. Instead of feeling ignored, or like the issue must not have been important, except to me....i should focus on His good judgment...That He heard me, and knows how i feel... That the course of action He chose is best...even if its different than what i hope for, or wanted..... This is what i struggle with....


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(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: what is the most difficult thing - 1/10/2010 5:18:45 AM   
CaringandReal


Posts: 1397
Joined: 2/15/2008
Status: offline 		In order of difficulty:

1. Helping him die over a period of years. Watching everything deteriorate, crumble away, except, in the end, his desire to be my master.
2. Telling him two things about myself I thought were most terrible and dark.
3. Silently taking a public dressing down for something a vanilla person did (but I lacked the balls to stand up against). I deserved it, he held me to far different (higher/harder) standards than he did people he didn't own.

Aside: Oh yeah, you bet, vanilla and bdsm relationships are exactly alike. Having done both in depth (over a deacde), I just laugh hysterically when I hear that. Perhaps it is more accurate to say, absolutes being such scary things and all--except, it appears, for the people utilizing them--that some bdsm relationships and vanilla relationships are exactly alike in the terms that were mentioned, hmm?

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(in reply to osf)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: what is the most difficult thing - 1/10/2010 6:13:41 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: osf


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I'm wondering how you base your opinion on such.  There are plenty of folks out there in non kinky land who date, become exclusive, and then break up.  I see no possible way to determine that one group (non kinky rather than kinky or in the reverse) has a higher success rate than the other.  Your observation may be completely different than someone who carries the opposite opinion.  Neither of which are being based on any hard data, and rather are being based on personal influences.

do you know what empirical means?

Yes, it means you're not basing it on fact.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to osf)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: what is the most difficult thing - 1/10/2010 7:21:29 AM   
Wolf2Bear


Posts: 3204
Joined: 9/6/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

not going to argue the point but we as a group seem to have a much greater failure rate than nilla folks

i'll just let that be my last point


Or it could be a case that it seems like we have a high failure rate due to we are not as diverse as the overall population.


_____________________________

~Resident Sadist Approved~

Take the pain
Take the pleasure
I'm the master of both
Close your eyes, not your mind
Let me into your soul
I'm gonna work it 'til your totally blown

(in reply to osf)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: what is the most difficult thing - 1/10/2010 10:14:14 AM   
lucylucy


Posts: 612
Joined: 3/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I'm wondering how you base your opinion on such.  There are plenty of folks out there in non kinky land who date, become exclusive, and then break up.  I see no possible way to determine that one group (non kinky rather than kinky or in the reverse) has a higher success rate than the other.  Your observation may be completely different than someone who carries the opposite opinion.  Neither of which are being based on any hard data, and rather are being based on personal influences.

do you know what empirical means?

Yes, it means you're not basing it on fact.


Actually, that's anecdotal. Emperical has to do with observation. Sometimes there's overlap, sometimes not.

_____________________________

“There are those who give with joy, & that joy is their reward.” Gibran / "Those who are willing to be vulnerable move among mysteries." Roethke / "Let the beauty we love be what we do. There are hundreds of ways to kneel & kiss the ground." Rumi

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: what is the most difficult thing - 1/10/2010 10:22:51 AM   
osf


Posts: 3288
Joined: 10/19/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lucylucy


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I'm wondering how you base your opinion on such.  There are plenty of folks out there in non kinky land who date, become exclusive, and then break up.  I see no possible way to determine that one group (non kinky rather than kinky or in the reverse) has a higher success rate than the other.  Your observation may be completely different than someone who carries the opposite opinion.  Neither of which are being based on any hard data, and rather are being based on personal influences.

do you know what empirical means?

Yes, it means you're not basing it on fact.


Actually, that's anecdotal. Emperical has to do with observation. Sometimes there's overlap, sometimes not.


if i see it and actually observe, isn't that empirical?

_____________________________

all around nice guy and creative misogynist

i'm not very skilled so i just hit harder

i want a woman to make into the woman she never wanted to become

(in reply to lucylucy)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: what is the most difficult thing - 1/10/2010 10:30:53 AM   
LillyoftheVally


Posts: 1826
Joined: 7/22/2009
Status: offline 		nm

< Message edited by LillyoftheVally -- 1/10/2010 10:31:47 AM >

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'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

Nah I am not happy to see you either

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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: what is the most difficult thing - 1/10/2010 10:52:32 AM   
lucylucy


Posts: 612
Joined: 3/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: osf


if i see it and actually observe, isn't that empirical?


Yes, but if you didn't observe in a methodical way and do something to ensure the reliability and validity of your interpretaton, then the fact that it's empirical doesn't make it necessarily accurate.

_____________________________

“There are those who give with joy, & that joy is their reward.” Gibran / "Those who are willing to be vulnerable move among mysteries." Roethke / "Let the beauty we love be what we do. There are hundreds of ways to kneel & kiss the ground." Rumi

(in reply to osf)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: what is the most difficult thing - 1/10/2010 11:03:14 AM   
osf


Posts: 3288
Joined: 10/19/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lucylucy


quote:

ORIGINAL: osf


if i see it and actually observe, isn't that empirical?


Yes, but if you didn't observe in a methodical way and do something to ensure the reliability and validity of your interpretaton, then the fact that it's empirical doesn't make it necessarily accurate.


nit picker

the worst thing you can call a sub

_____________________________

all around nice guy and creative misogynist

i'm not very skilled so i just hit harder

i want a woman to make into the woman she never wanted to become

(in reply to lucylucy)
Profile   Post #: 60
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