RE: why does he want a submissive over a nilla woman

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xxblushesxx -> RE: why does he want a submissive over a nilla woman (1/12/2010 11:35:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009 quote: ORIGINAL: osf quote: ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx quote: ORIGINAL: CarrieO quote: ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact quote: ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance Thank you for bringing that up. Why is CillyDom 63, but Oaf is 55 now, but a few days ago he was 65? Have we stumbled upon the fountain of youth? Nice. What's up with this?!! And then there was silence as the wizard of osf slipped further behind his curtain. [sm=LMAO.gif] it's just a mishap i'll change it back when its convenient Mishap: An unfortunate accident. Bad luck. Misfortune. So you changed it by accident? Or did it mysteriously get changed by itself due to bad luck (darn computer glitches)? Or did you just have the misfortune of getting busted trying to deceive? In what way was it a "mishap", since it took an intentional act to change it? hmmm... interesting...

KnightofMists -> RE: why does he want a submissive over a nilla woman (1/12/2010 11:35:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: osf i don't know your relationship so i cant comment on that well.. you do seem to comment on things you know very little and it doesn't stop you there... so not sure why it would stop you now

osf -> RE: why does he want a submissive over a nilla woman (1/12/2010 11:36:53 AM)
quote: well.. you do seem to comment on things you know very little and it doesn't stop you there... so not sure why it would stop you now are you disappointed i didn't make a disrespectful comment?

CarrieO -> RE: why does he want a submissive over a nilla woman (1/12/2010 11:39:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: osf what i see here is a bunch of people that get together and so they have a partner for some kinky sex and to be seen in dungeons so they can be noticed and respected in the " COMMUNITY" ok if that's you thing more power to you This is your assumption. I see you as being too busy stating over and over what you're looking for or wanting or not wanting and doing little to contribute to actual discussion. Every point raised is shot down by you as being wrong or not complete in your eyes. Who cares? This is a discussion board, not a "here's what osf wants" board. Taken from the Forum Guidelines... "The primary intention of this board is to provide a forum for discussion and the exchange of ideas." "knowing how high maintenance a submissive is, why would any man prefer one to the average woman?" Because it's his choice. You give no clarification of what you mean by "high maintenance" so people have answered based on their personal definition. Even you were unclear as to the difference between any and some. This question, as posed, can only be answered in a personal sense. i'll tread my own path Which, as WinsomeDefiance said, would be interesting to hear about given the wealth of knowledge and experience you claim to have. You should remember, though, that as you tread your path so will many others. Neither is more right or wrong than the other.

KnightofMists -> RE: why does he want a submissive over a nilla woman (1/12/2010 11:39:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009 In what way was it a "mishap", since it took an intentional act to change it? well.. he could of forgot his age... he could screwed up the math in figuring out his age... after all.. he has shown himself not to be so bright.... so these things do seem possible..... I darn not suggest that he is deceptive or lacks integrity!

Mercnbeth -> RE: why does he want a submissive over a nilla woman (1/12/2010 11:41:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: masterofholly quote: not to speak for others or anything but only from this slave's perspective: our relationship has never taken "work"...and he didn't have to "work to win" this submissive, either. He stood there like a pillar of salt and that was all it took? I have no idea what your relationship or roles are but I have serious doubts that is what you meant. beth meant exactly what she said and so does this "pillar of salt". Appreciating your admitted ignorance regarding our relationship I'll try to clarify. quote: Relationships take work. They require give and take. They take learning about your partner. They do not happen with no effort whatsoever from either partner. Perhaps you do not agree with the term "work". Use whatever term you want. "Effort" may suit you better. He had to make the effort, give you his time and attention, to know you were right for him and make the effort to be with you and allow you to get to know him for you to make the same decision. Everything you say is what should occur BEFORE there is a relationship. Forming a relationship requires work. After you've extended the "effort" and done the "work" required, primarily involved in self discovery and disclosure, you eliminate the "work". Once disclosing yourself totally naked, emotionally and mentally, and being as comfortable with your partner in those aspects as much as you are when physically naked - there is no "work" involved. Every day afterward is an ongoing vacation. From the moment of commitment to the resulting relationship established living life generates trust building experience with the results ideally exposing more and taking you together to places you could never achieve alone. When people represent they have to "work" at their relationship it commonly represents they are "working" on being something they are not. The compromises they made, regarding themselves or their partner, to 'succeed' in being a part of a relationship take work to maintain. It's why 'breaks' or 'vacations' from the relationship, both vanilla or 'flavored', have come to be generally acceptable practices. When people have to 'act' to fulfill expectations the relationship is work. In that context you're correct - it takes work to act. Relationships require work if/when a compromise can't be maintained long term. Work is also necessary if either partner didn't, or sometimes couldn't, be as honest with themselves about who they are and represented a persona that was 'fantasy' based. Good intent comes into play here and often people represent to a potential partner someone who they 'hope to be' versus the reality of who they are. In that case - the work involved to change or the work to live up to their partner's expectations is not only work, but HARD labor. To be in a relationship where the work and effort was done going in and resulted in disclosing a compatible partner who fulfills you at every level is FUN. My work life has but one focus and goal - to get me home or to anyplace where I can be with beth. Any 'vacation' never includes a separation from her, or the relationship which we form together. It takes zero effort and no work to do so. If you need any further clarification - feel free to ask. Both of us would be happy to provide more insight if need be. Not to represent a 'one-true-way' and not representing 'success'. No matter how long we've been together or will be together, unfortunately the only way to determine if we are indeed representing a successful relationship based upon the premise I've given regarding "work" is for us to get to life's 'finish line' otherwise known as death. Which was one of the things we worked on, and agreed too going in - beth, by contractual obligation and representing my #1 'hard limit', is not allowed to die before me. Until that pragmatic end, we're just a 'work in progress'.

KnightofMists -> RE: why does he want a submissive over a nilla woman (1/12/2010 11:44:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: osf quote: well.. you do seem to comment on things you know very little and it doesn't stop you there... so not sure why it would stop you now are you disappointed i didn't make a disrespectful comment? you are hardly someone that could ever disappointment... but you do often amuse me! something like the fool amuses the kings court..... oh yes... I don't have no issue disrepecting your sensitive nature since I see nothing of you that deserves respect... and no... just becuase one is a human doesn't equate to deserving respect. I would say the goose in your avatar pic has more of my respect than you could ever gain.

osf -> RE: why does he want a submissive over a nilla woman (1/12/2010 11:48:39 AM)
well at least you respect something, so there's hope

xxblushesxx -> RE: why does he want a submissive over a nilla woman (1/12/2010 11:50:43 AM)
The Goose's name is Mistress Hope? That's kinda odd...

sirsholly -> RE: why does he want a submissive over a nilla woman (1/12/2010 11:50:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: ORIGINAL: masterofholly quote: not to speak for others or anything but only from this slave's perspective: our relationship has never taken "work"...and he didn't have to "work to win" this submissive, either. He stood there like a pillar of salt and that was all it took? I have no idea what your relationship or roles are but I have serious doubts that is what you meant. beth meant exactly what she said and so does this "pillar of salt". Appreciating your admitted ignorance regarding our relationship I'll try to clarify. quote: Relationships take work. They require give and take. They take learning about your partner. They do not happen with no effort whatsoever from either partner. Perhaps you do not agree with the term "work". Use whatever term you want. "Effort" may suit you better. He had to make the effort, give you his time and attention, to know you were right for him and make the effort to be with you and allow you to get to know him for you to make the same decision. Everything you say is what should occur BEFORE there is a relationship. Forming a relationship requires work. Simmer down, salty one. Perhaps Beth missed this part of Jimmys post? quote: Relationships take work. Calling yourself a Dominant does not exclude you or place you above it. It is a foreign concept to you that a Dominant should actually have to work to win a submissive, isn't it? You cannot grasp the concept that she can and will reject you if you do not meet her expectations. Win, as in connect and have a relationship.

LillyoftheVally -> RE: why does he want a submissive over a nilla woman (1/12/2010 11:51:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth To be in a relationship where the work and effort was done going in and resulted in disclosing a compatible partner who fulfills you at every level is FUN. My work life has but one focus and goal - to get me home or to anyplace where I can be with beth. Any 'vacation' never includes a separation from her, or the relationship which we form together. It takes zero effort and no work to do so. I think that is fantastic, and a goal that most of us would aspire to. I have found that no matter how much you plan going into relationships there is no accounting for everything, we can't predict what will happen to someone in certain situations, how we will react in them either and I guess that is where I would use the term work, when things become difficult being able to muddle through it can be work at times, i guess it is less so because of the feelings you have towards the other people, but even with that things can be strained at times Edit to add, that maybe the connotations with the term work is what jars. I mean I can't really speak from much experience my relationships have generally been mostly work and very little play (now I sound sufficiently bitter)

roland23 -> RE: why does he want a submissive over a nilla woman (1/12/2010 11:51:45 AM)
I stand corrected. When I said "high maintainance" I meant financially dependent. The kind of person who demands bling, cars, clothes, etc. They really should check out Goldigger.com or visit the Viagara Triangle in Chicago. Both places are great places to meet rich men(or SO many women have told me) Thanks!

osf -> RE: why does he want a submissive over a nilla woman (1/12/2010 11:53:37 AM)
her name is Miss Cillie Goos and the only kinky thing she has ever done is play with my feet and try to pull my hair out and lay an egg on alt cam

KnightofMists -> RE: why does he want a submissive over a nilla woman (1/12/2010 11:54:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: ORIGINAL: masterofholly quote: not to speak for others or anything but only from this slave's perspective: our relationship has never taken "work"...and he didn't have to "work to win" this submissive, either. He stood there like a pillar of salt and that was all it took? I have no idea what your relationship or roles are but I have serious doubts that is what you meant. beth meant exactly what she said and so does this "pillar of salt". Appreciating your admitted ignorance regarding our relationship I'll try to clarify. quote: Relationships take work. They require give and take. They take learning about your partner. They do not happen with no effort whatsoever from either partner. Perhaps you do not agree with the term "work". Use whatever term you want. "Effort" may suit you better. He had to make the effort, give you his time and attention, to know you were right for him and make the effort to be with you and allow you to get to know him for you to make the same decision. Everything you say is what should occur BEFORE there is a relationship. Forming a relationship requires work. After you've extended the "effort" and done the "work" required, primarily involved in self discovery and disclosure, you eliminate the "work". Once disclosing yourself totally naked, emotionally and mentally, and being as comfortable with your partner in those aspects as much as you are when physically naked - there is no "work" involved. Every day afterward is an ongoing vacation. From the moment of commitment to the resulting relationship established living life generates trust building experience with the results ideally exposing more and taking you together to places you could never achieve alone. When people represent they have to "work" at their relationship it commonly represents they are "working" on being something they are not. The compromises they made, regarding themselves or their partner, to 'succeed' in being a part of a relationship take work to maintain. It's why 'breaks' or 'vacations' from the relationship, both vanilla or 'flavored', have come to be generally acceptable practices. When people have to 'act' to fulfill expectations the relationship is work. In that context you're correct - it takes work to act. Relationships require work if/when a compromise can't be maintained long term. Work is also necessary if either partner didn't, or sometimes couldn't, be as honest with themselves about who they are and represented a persona that was 'fantasy' based. Good intent comes into play here and often people represent to a potential partner someone who they 'hope to be' versus the reality of who they are. In that case - the work involved to change or the work to live up to their partner's expectations is not only work, but HARD labor. To be in a relationship where the work and effort was done going in and resulted in disclosing a compatible partner who fulfills you at every level is FUN. My work life has but one focus and goal - to get me home or to anyplace where I can be with beth. Any 'vacation' never includes a separation from her, or the relationship which we form together. It takes zero effort and no work to do so. If you need any further clarification - feel free to ask. Both of us would be happy to provide more insight if need be. Not to represent a 'one-true-way' and not representing 'success'. No matter how long we've been together or will be together, unfortunately the only way to determine if we are indeed representing a successful relationship based upon the premise I've given regarding "work" is for us to get to life's 'finish line' otherwise known as death. Which was one of the things we worked on, and agreed too going in - beth, by contractual obligation and representing my #1 'hard limit', is not allowed to die before me. Until that pragmatic end, we're just a 'work in progress'. Ditto... with regards to my own relationships with Alandra and Kyra. It's not work to be in the relationship.. it's rather easy to be in this relationship. It's rather easy to enjoy everything about it. The hardest work we ever did was enduring the distance that kept us physical apart... but even as we grew to know each other... that was hardly work either. It was FUN where we exerted effort to get to know each other... but interestedly.. the more we came to know each other the more energized we became. It was never "work" to do it. Now this implies that "work" is somehow negative... as in the opposite of "Play" or fun. Maybe work is more a neutral term and we are dealing more about semantics in using a particular term. but, never has the desire to build and interact with this relationship been anything but desired and enjoyed by myself. I been with Alandra more years that most have been with their current partners... and I tell you no matter if you are 1 year or 5 or 10 or 15 or even more... when you love being in that relationship it is never about work...

Mercnbeth -> RE: why does he want a submissive over a nilla woman (1/12/2010 11:55:51 AM)
quote: He stood there like a pillar of salt and that was all it took? I have no idea what your relationship or roles are but I have serious doubts that is what you meant. never said anything about standing still like a pillar of salt. just that there was no "work to win" this submissive...only mutual pleasure, enjoyment of each other's company, an extreme degree of compatibility and the outrageous entertainment of each other that built our relationship. what keeps it going isn't considered by us as "work" either, as our relating to each other and the progress our relationship makes flows in harmony. it's 7 years in, and we are still waiting to have our first fight... so we can experience the heady make-up sex everyone goes on about! and if make-up sex is "work" then it'll be a whole trifecta of new experiences for us!!![:)] quote: ...Relationships take work... some do...and some just are, without having to "work" at it. quote: ...They require give and take... not for everyone. some folks give without taking...and others take, without giving. for some, that's exactly how they want it. quote: ...They take learning about your partner. They do not happen with no effort whatsoever from either partner. Perhaps you do not agree with the term "work". Use whatever term you want. "Effort" may suit you better. He had to make the effort, give you his time and attention, to know you were right for him and make the effort to be with you and allow you to get to know him for you to make the same decision... "effort" certainly sounds a lot less harsh. labors of love are never considered "work", by this slave. if He had considered that getting to know this slave was "work" and not relaxing/entertaining/fun, or that our relationship is "work" and not relaxing/entertaining/fun we certainly wouldn't be where we are 7 years later.

sirsholly -> RE: why does he want a submissive over a nilla woman (1/12/2010 12:10:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: He stood there like a pillar of salt and that was all it took? I have no idea what your relationship or roles are but I have serious doubts that is what you meant. never said anything about standing still like a pillar of salt. just that there was no "work to win" this submissive...only mutual pleasure, enjoyment of each other's company, an extreme degree of compatibility and the outrageous entertainment of each other that built our relationship. I see your point, but i know what Jim meant too. Work was the term he used which i think is pretty common in that context, and does not mean anything negative or unpleasant. Effort, building, and a bunch more if i gave it some thought. what keeps it going isn't considered by us as "work" either, as our relating to each other and the progress our relationship makes flows in harmony. it's 7 years in, and we are still waiting to have our first fight... so we can experience the heady make-up sex everyone goes on about! and if make-up sex is "work" then it'll be a whole trifecta of new experiences for us!!![:)] So...when neither of you is on line for...oh...say three weeks, we will know why?[:)] quote: ...Relationships take work... some do...and some just are, without having to "work" at it. quote: ...They require give and take... not for everyone. some folks give without taking...and others take, without giving. for some, that's exactly how they want it. quote: ...They take learning about your partner. They do not happen with no effort whatsoever from either partner. Perhaps you do not agree with the term "work". Use whatever term you want. "Effort" may suit you better. He had to make the effort, give you his time and attention, to know you were right for him and make the effort to be with you and allow you to get to know him for you to make the same decision... "effort" certainly sounds a lot less harsh. labors of love are never considered "work", by this slave. if He had considered that getting to know this slave was "work" and not relaxing/entertaining/fun, or that our relationship is "work" and not relaxing/entertaining/fun we certainly wouldn't be where we are 7 years later. Ok...instead of work, lets agree on labors of love. The point i assume Jim was trying to make was a pillar of salt stands there and does nothing. It is hard to imagine a submissive devoting herself to it.

Mercnbeth -> RE: why does he want a submissive over a nilla woman (1/12/2010 12:21:47 PM)
quote: Relationships take work. Calling yourself a Dominant does not exclude you or place you above it. It is a foreign concept to you that a Dominant should actually have to work to win a submissive, isn't it? Holly, it would be a "foreign concept" for me to "work to win a submissive". Unless Jimmy is saying that, for some people, being 'themselves' requires conscience effort and 'work'. BTW - I'd agree with him and think he is right, unfortunately, in a majority of cases. I'll admit to having to work to make sure that wasn't the case with beth as it had been with others. In her case the greatest work and effort was on my part - trusting that what she apparently represented was honestly her. I had never encountered someone so willing, and seemingly so comfortable getting 'naked'. My motives in doing so were motivated by a selfish need and desire to not waste time, to get to a point where the person would realize that I was uncompromising and dedicated to the details of the relationship I desired. This was in direct opposition to the altruistic position that beth took which, from my perspective, was a simple disrobing. However, getting to a point of nakedness didn't, and doesn't, insure success. Indeed, most times, you get to a core of irreconcilable, uncompromising differences. You'd be surprised what they were in my case. Maybe we both ultimately had the same 'take it or leave it' approach to disclosing ourselves to each other, but even there - she did so 'submissively' compared to my approach which was (is?) much more a 'fuck you - if you don't like me or what I want' attitude. The outcome I am living is totally unexpected. More than you know, I appreciate the long shot odds and exacting set of circumstances, some of which generate a deep seeded sense of guilt, which had to occur in both our previously independent lives for us to have the opportunity to meet each other. quote: Simmer down, salty one. Perhaps Beth missed this part of Jimmy's post? Hell Holly, after all these years I'm sure you know I wasn't "simmering". However, that time should also make you appreciate that I rarely pass up on an opportunity to talk about how much fun my life has been since beth's been in it.

sirsholly -> RE: why does he want a submissive over a nilla woman (1/12/2010 12:31:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: Relationships take work. Calling yourself a Dominant does not exclude you or place you above it. It is a foreign concept to you that a Dominant should actually have to work to win a submissive, isn't it? Holly, it would be a "foreign concept" for me to "work to win a submissive". Unless Jimmy is saying that, for some people, being 'themselves' requires conscience effort and 'work'. Merc, how do i say this? Work was used but not in the context of something unpleasant. I think what Jim meant was you have to do SOMETHING. Slapping a title of Dom on your butt and sitting back and waiting is not going to get you very far.It is hard to speak for him, but i do know he had the impression Osf thought a sub had little to no right to turn down a Dom. BTW - I'd agree with him and think he is right, unfortunately, in a majority of cases. I'll admit to having to work to make sure that wasn't the case with beth as it had been with others. In her case the greatest work and effort was on my part - trusting that what she apparently represented was honestly her. I had never encountered someone so willing, and seemingly so comfortable getting 'naked'. My motives in doing so were motivated by a selfish need and desire to not waste time, to get to a point where the person would realize that I was uncompromising and dedicated to the details of the relationship I desired. This was in direct opposition to the altruistic position that beth took which, from my perspective, was a simple disrobing. Oh this is so sweet!!! I am happy for you both!!! However, getting to a point of nakedness didn't, and doesn't, insure success. Indeed, most times, you get to a core of irreconcilable, uncompromising differences. You'd be surprised what they were in my case. Maybe we both ultimately had the same 'take it or leave it' approach to disclosing ourselves to each other, but even there - she did so 'submissively' compared to my approach which was (is?) much more a 'fuck you - if you don't like me or what I want' attitude. The outcome I am living is totally unexpected. More than you know, I appreciate the long shot odds and exacting set of circumstances, some of which generate a deep seeded sense of guilt, which had to occur in both our previously independent lives for us to have the opportunity to meet each other. quote: Simmer down, salty one. Perhaps Beth missed this part of Jimmy's post? Hell Holly, after all these years I'm sure you know I wasn't "simmering". I could not pass up calling you SaltyOne...just couldn't do it! However, that time should also make you appreciate that I rarely pass up on an opportunity to talk about how much fun my life has been since beth's been in it. that is what it is all about!

CallaFirestormBW -> RE: why does he want a submissive over a nilla woman (1/12/2010 12:39:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: osf quote: Heck, there are times in -any- relationship when things will happen that will cause individuals to dislike hir companions. Part of being in a healthy relationship is being able to resolve these issues and come out the other end as a healthy, happy household. but was she made to fuck someone she didn't really want to? i think that would be a difference Actually, it's -not- a "difference"... it's just a "specific". As I said earlier, there are times in -any- relationship, regardless of orientation, where things are going to happen, or one party is going to be required to do something that xhe isn't really "on board" with, and xhe may, very well, resent it. It doesn't matter, in specific, what causes the bad feeling. The issue is figuring out how to deal with it so that it doesn't destroy the relationship. In the specific case you mentioned, the solution is to be IN a relationship with a person who understands and accepts that xhe's going to be asked to be sexually active at the will of hir partner, regardless of hir own level of interest or preference. There are folks out there who are perfectly willing to have that stipulation in place -- and who, though they may not be gung-ho for the encounter, will have minimal or no resentment when they are commanded to entertain someone who wouldn't be on hir "wanna sex" list. OTOH, if you're talking about forcing someone who has already said that xhe's not interested in being shared around... that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish, and dips into the area of "non-consensual coercion"... and I have to admit, I'd get pretty pissed about that myself. So if you're offering a specific where resentment might crop up in a consensual relationship, then the solution is the same, regardless of orientation -- you, as a household, have to figure out how to deal with that resentment and move forward. If it's a matter of non-consensual coercion, nobody in their right mind, vanilla or submissive, should have to deal with that, so I wouldn't be surprised if someone in that situation ditched the boat. Calla

domiguy -> RE: why does he want a submissive over a nilla woman (1/12/2010 1:16:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: osf what i see here is a bunch of people that get together and so they have a partner for some kinky sex and to be seen in dungeons so they can be noticed and respected in the " COMMUNITY" ok if that's you thing more power to you i'll tread my own path In those shoes? I gotta give you some props for leading out and sportin' those velcro fuckers. The sad thing is that you are not fucking around here, you think those shoes are bad. Women of the world please comment... Unless the fuck lives in an assisted living facility what would you think of a man that showed up wearing velcro straps in lieu of laces? Hard limit, right? mmmmmmmmm...Assisted living pussy. You gotta think with all of the e.d. drugs available that there is some pretty outlandish activity going down inside of those places. I wonder if Auntie Helen spontaneously combusted or was internally set ablaze from a lack of moisture and too much friction? osf, do you have a pair of those huge sunglasses that the old fucks wear as well? You own it.

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