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RE: Passive Aggression and Dominance - 1/13/2010 9:19:55 AM   
Prinsexx


Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetboundesire

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

Passuve agressuon? Yes indeed rhat hallmark of the narcisist.
One hopes that passive agression and dominance are mutually exclusive.
Hope is a many splendid thing.


I had a husband who was a narcisist, very passive aggressive.
I left him in a very direct way.
I think if I would've stayed it would've given me heart disease.
its no good. I can't stand being around couples that are displaying this energy. it's harmful to everyone.

I've had two husbands and one civl partner...all of them passive agressive. And all of them narcisists of one sort or another.
Their need to conform (ie LOOk as if they were doting husbands)far ourweighed their capacity to 'form' a reltionship. That is why most passive agressors 'appear' to be successdul at the socio-dynamic level. Whereas what goes on behind doors is a real power over game.
And it's the submissive by nature types/yet stand alone successful women.. like me .that most feed their need for power, that most give them a sense of victory.
Most 'succesful' dominants I know, those in successful partnerships, are actually quite humble men (and women).




< Message edited by Prinsexx -- 1/13/2010 9:22:19 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Passive Aggression and Dominance - 1/13/2010 9:23:12 AM   
rockspider


Posts: 633
Joined: 9/26/2009
Status: offline 		I can only thank the OP for bringing up the subject. My first, and very vanilla, marriage lasted 13 years. Since it ended i have been looking for a term to describe my ex wife's behaviour, and it is first time i find something which fits her perfectly. It of course makes me very experienced in trying to live with that kind of personality. I can only say that I should have ended that marriage long before it actually did. But as they say, being clever is always easy, specially when you are looking in the rear view mirror.

(in reply to kallisto)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Passive Aggression and Dominance - 1/13/2010 9:23:36 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss
I think often people just haven't had "permission" in one form or another to express themselves clearly.  By respecting their words, you give them permission for their words to have power... safely. 

I strongly agree with this.



As do I. I strongly disagree that a passive aggressive person is usually a narcissist. I think that most people develop PA as a way of coping when they did not feel they were able to communicate freely. I know that was the case for me. PA is something I have recognized in myself. It is something I have worked on, and continue to work on, diligently.

The reality is that much of our society suppresses honest communication, especially from those that are seen in that society as someone that should be less vocal, more 'charming', a bitch if they are honest and forthright, etc etc etc.

The key, to me, is that a narcissist will either, not recognize it in themself and/or simply not care.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 1/13/2010 9:24:38 AM >

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Passive Aggression and Dominance - 1/13/2010 10:08:49 AM   
MsMillgrove


Posts: 260
Joined: 5/27/2008
Status: offline 		Why, when most people really detest dealing with someone who is passive agreessive--does that person continue to use thais mechanism? I am forever puzzles why people cling to a behavior that doesn't work. Someone must be feeding the p/a bears??????

Why do I think it was Mommy? Cause if I see them together, they're still doing it... even though both have grey hair now....

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Passive Aggression and Dominance - 1/13/2010 10:12:40 AM   
sweetboundesire


Posts: 285
Joined: 10/29/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetboundesire

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

Passuve agressuon? Yes indeed rhat hallmark of the narcisist.
One hopes that passive agression and dominance are mutually exclusive.
Hope is a many splendid thing.


I had a husband who was a narcisist, very passive aggressive.
I left him in a very direct way.
I think if I would've stayed it would've given me heart disease.
its no good. I can't stand being around couples that are displaying this energy. it's harmful to everyone.

I've had two husbands and one civl partner...all of them passive agressive. And all of them narcisists of one sort or another.
Their need to conform (ie LOOk as if they were doting husbands)far ourweighed their capacity to 'form' a reltionship. That is why most passive agressors 'appear' to be successdul at the socio-dynamic level. Whereas what goes on behind doors is a real power over game.
And it's the submissive by nature types/yet stand alone successful women.. like me .that most feed their need for power, that most give them a sense of victory.
Most 'succesful' dominants I know, those in successful partnerships, are actually quite humble men (and women).





It's us "nurse" types who get into feeding these blackhole types.

It's my personal view of the narcissitic type. Blackhole people. There is no way to fill their cup. The nurse types like myself, and probably you, have a great capacity to give, to nurture. Opposites definitely attract in this case. I gave and gave until i had to either decide to let myself sink with the ship and lose myself or jump ship. Jump I did. Never been better. I think I'd rather be a nurse type than a narcissist. At least, I am much more sensitive on what to avoid. A person should have happiness inside them. If they don't you can not expect to help them find it. perhaps that has nothing to do w/ pa...just commenting on the narcissist part here.


(in reply to Prinsexx)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Passive Aggression and Dominance - 1/13/2010 12:53:58 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMillgrove

Why, when most people really detest dealing with someone who is passive agreessive--does that person continue to use thais mechanism? I am forever puzzles why people cling to a behavior that doesn't work. Someone must be feeding the p/a bears??????

Why do I think it was Mommy? Cause if I see them together, they're still doing it... even though both have grey hair now....


I can only speak for myself but in truth..........it worked quite well. In fact it worked better than the direct approach.

In retrospect, I think I learned it in grade school. On the playground with all the other little girls. Girls excel at it. It was constantly reaffirmed by an exhusband that wanted you to tell him what he wanted to hear, not the truth. His father was a domineering asshole that accepted zero back talk and we spent a great deal of time around them. Working in mostly female environments where PA is the modus operandi. Being in several relationships with insecure PA people, one of which only heard what he wanted to hear and bullied, talked right over a person in discussions.

All of those things only strengthened the PA behaviour, making it more and more difficult for me to be myself, communicating openly and honestly as I did as a child. When something works, you do it.........path of least resistance and all that rot.

It wasn't until I began to take a good hard look at myself and decide if I was someone I would like, look up to, respect, that I even realized I was doing it. I was clueless. Changing it meant alienating a few people. It wasn't easy, with a few people downright painful as it destroyed the relationships. It destroyed because THEY don't know any different. Every single aspect of their life, all their relationships and behaviours are passive aggressively dealt with.

So while we may not like it, I believe it is much more common than first look. Just take a look around here on any given day. Someone that speaks honestly is called rude or harsh. The sensitive souls would rather a passive aggressive approach than honesty. Yet, many of those sensitive souls are experts at the PA knives in the back.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 1/13/2010 1:02:39 PM >

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to MsMillgrove)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Passive Aggression and Dominance - 1/13/2010 12:56:33 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		June?... .you are one fabulous lesbian dominant bitch!


Ward

_____________________________

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(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Passive Aggression and Dominance - 1/13/2010 1:02:06 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

June?... .you are one fabulous lesbian dominant bitch!


Ward


Ward, you say the sweetest things!

June


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Jeffff)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Passive Aggression and Dominance - 1/13/2010 1:34:03 PM   
sunshinemiss


Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

The sensitive souls would rather a passive aggressive approach than honesty.


Hello LaT,
I'm taking issue with this part of your post.  I like to think of myself as a "sensitive soul".  I do tend to be fairly sensitive, and I do (hopefully) tend to be fairly diplomatic.  Not always, of course, but I try to be.  I prefer honesty.  I don't like the term "brutally honest" though because it is a misnomer.  One needn't be brutal to be honest.  I often say "say what you mean, mean what you say and DON'T SAY IT MEAN." 
******************************
Warning:  FR ramblings to follow:

I, too, had to let go of a number of passive aggressive relationships.  When one gets healthy, one will often find themselves no longer having the patience or wherewithal to maintain unhealthy relationships.  I think this is why so many relationships fall apart when an addict gets clean.  Noone is feeding the sickness - on any side.

********************

I don't think that we need be rude, nasty, mean spirited, or anything like that to be honest.  In fact, by not putting any of that kind of energy into an honest statement, we give the honesty more power.  Honesty said with absolute kindness, support, love even, has an amazingly powerful ring to it. 

There are a number of times I have, as part of my job, said horribly painful things to people, but because it was said with such deep love and kindness, the people were able to hear it without defensiveness and with an understanding that the truth can be devastating but not hurtful. 

*************************

Passive aggression is not part of narcissism.  They are part of insecurity... fear... ignorance...

**************************

There is this exercise.... make a t-shirt that makes fun of your shortcomings... Mine would say... So I'm controlling?  What am I gonna let you do about it?

Passive aggressive... what would that tshirt look like?

***************************

Tired, I am
yoda sunshine

< Message edited by sunshinemiss -- 1/13/2010 2:04:15 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Passive Aggression and Dominance - 1/13/2010 2:32:57 PM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline
quote:

Most 'succesful' dominants I know, those in successful partnerships, are actually quite humble men (and women).


What's funny is I think this translates to both sides..Being humble in spirit is a beautiful thing. It reminds me of a bible verse though.

Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.


_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

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(in reply to Prinsexx)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Passive Aggression and Dominance - 1/13/2010 2:37:18 PM   
Prinsexx


Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Its the difference between being DomiNEARing...and being Dominant.

Its the difference between saying "I am moving on" and just disappearing.


I think passive agression is more than a silly play on words...(or a spelling mistake).


_____________________________

Owner of asterion

Metawhore.... the sound of a metaphore when gagged
Free woman
Resident thread finisher
To my stalker:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN2lP_7J7GI&feature=fvwrel

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Passive Aggression and Dominance - 1/13/2010 2:40:55 PM   
Prinsexx


Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss
I think often people just haven't had "permission" in one form or another to express themselves clearly.  By respecting their words, you give them permission for their words to have power... safely. 

I strongly agree with this.



As do I. I strongly disagree that a passive aggressive person is usually a narcissist. I think that most people develop PA as a way of coping when they did not feel they were able to communicate freely. I know that was the case for me. PA is something I have recognized in myself. It is something I have worked on, and continue to work on, diligently.

The reality is that much of our society suppresses honest communication, especially from those that are seen in that society as someone that should be less vocal, more 'charming', a bitch if they are honest and forthright, etc etc etc.

The key, to me, is that a narcissist will either, not recognize it in themself and/or simply not care.

Just to clarify my understanding of PA and narcisism. passive agression, and i m ahreeing with you here, is an adaptive nehaviour. Some narcisistic types (since nrcisistic personality disorder is the on PD defined as learned) are passive agressive. The violent narcisist is not so.



_____________________________

Owner of asterion

Metawhore.... the sound of a metaphore when gagged
Free woman
Resident thread finisher
To my stalker:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN2lP_7J7GI&feature=fvwrel

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Passive Aggression and Dominance - 1/13/2010 2:46:58 PM   
breatheasone


Posts: 4004
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

quote:

Most 'succesful' dominants I know, those in successful partnerships, are actually quite humble men (and women).


What's funny is I think this translates to both sides..Being humble in spirit is a beautiful thing. It reminds me of a bible verse though.

Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.


Excellent verse! i have always loved the one, just before the one you quoted as well, its Matthew 7:16, Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Passive Aggression and Dominance - 1/13/2010 2:50:49 PM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

quote:

Most 'succesful' dominants I know, those in successful partnerships, are actually quite humble men (and women).


What's funny is I think this translates to both sides..Being humble in spirit is a beautiful thing. It reminds me of a bible verse though.

Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.


Excellent verse! i have always loved the one, just before the one you quoted as well, its Matthew 7:16, Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

Yeah that's a great one too.  That first line is one of my favorites and I often apply that in my life.

That happens to fit nicely for another thread..I'm snatchin it.


< Message edited by Icarys -- 1/13/2010 2:57:14 PM >

_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

(in reply to breatheasone)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Passive Aggression and Dominance - 1/13/2010 3:27:11 PM   
ExSteelAgain


Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline 		I note your title is passive AGGRESSION not aggressive. Is that on purpose? In any case I doubt there is a real psychiatric condition defined as being passive aggressive. It's just a coverall term kind of like dysfunctional family.

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You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Passive Aggression and Dominance - 1/13/2010 3:33:40 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		I just thought it read better that way.


Jeff

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Passive Aggression and Dominance - 1/13/2010 3:33:57 PM   
LonDom61


Posts: 196
Joined: 9/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: InvisibleBlack

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

Are they mutually exclusive?

Jeff


Passive aggressive and dominant? That's like ... the stealth Dom. How would that work?


Oh crap. Opens up TypesOfDominants.doc.  To "Romantic Dom, Sadistic Dom, etc...." adds "Stealthy Dom".  Save.  Exit.

I'm just early in the thread, but a few folks have mentioned working out their agression beating their subs.  Or working off their frustrations or whatever.  Sounds potentially dangerous to me.  If you're still in control of yourself & monitoring for safe/consented level, sure.  (Or, I guess, depending on your safeword policy).

Sure, a Dom can still be in control of himself & also get the physical & emotional release. But the way I learned, don't do a scene (let's not quibble; if you're beating her let's just call it a scene) when you're drunk, stoned or angy.

YMMV

(in reply to InvisibleBlack)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Passive Aggression and Dominance - 1/13/2010 3:37:44 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		Playing when angry wasn't exactly my point. I was speaking of an emotional condition.

And incidentally I have played with a light buzz on, I am sure I will do so in the future


Let this resonate in the community!


Jeff

_____________________________

"If you don't live it, it won't come out your horn." Charlie Parker

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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Passive Aggression and Dominance - 1/13/2010 3:42:19 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Sunshiny girl. I understand what you are saying. I think that the difference between your honesty and my honesty ends up being, in large part, personality. I tend to be more economical, if you want to use that term. Some would call it brutal, to me it isn't. I am simply answering in the very same way I would want to be answered. I do not want a bunch of beating about the bush and extra words. Just give me the facts.

Example: I am with my sister shopping for some new riding jeans and she asks me "Do these make my ass look fat?" It is a simple question that only requires a yes or no... and I will most generally reply with a yes or no. Some people would get upset if they asked that question and I answered with a "yes". Why??? They asked, I answered. Why should I waste time trying to find 20 words to say what one word does? BUT......if they are sensitive to such a blunt question, I feel it is their responsibility to ask the question differently. Perhaps something like "LeeAnn, do you think these are the jeans I should buy or do you think a different pair would look better?" I can answer something like "Nooo, not those, try these instead!" Or, "I liked the first pair better."  The sensitive person is taking responsibility for their reaction instead of laying it on me.

I also think that I used the term 'sensitive people' in a different way than you are describing yourself. I was thinking about the people, that no matter how you phrase something, they seem to find any thought that does not agree with theirs, something to get upset about.

Another thing to remember, for many people, communication style is hugely affected by our upbringing. What is completely acceptable in one family, is considered rude and crass in another. What is PA in one family is well mannered in another.



_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to sunshinemiss)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Passive Aggression and Dominance - 1/13/2010 3:47:56 PM   
LadyOddsworth


Posts: 141
Joined: 1/2/2010
Status: offline 		To me, topping from the bottom is a much more passive aggressive behavior than dominance.

_____________________________

We all have baggage, the question is; Is it carry on or do you need a U-haul for it?


(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 60
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