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RE: Passive Aggression and Dominance - 1/13/2010 4:48:40 PM   
Level


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Joined: 3/3/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jujubeeMB


quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

I dislike Passive-Aggressiveness in anyone, male, female, Dom, sub, boss, employee, friend, relative. When you are an upfront person, it is particularly irritating. I like clarity.


Same here. I usually confront people who are being passive aggressive directly. "Why are you looking over there and pretending you're not annoyed about this right now?" "Clearly you're trying to get me to have 'this' reaction - I'm not tricked by that, so why don't you just tell me what you're thinking." This doesn't usually go over well :)


No, they go into a shitstorm, or plot to fuck you over, when you call them on it. I work for a PA, and with another one, and it's a big pain in the ass, and the office suffers for it. I need to run the place.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to jujubeeMB)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Passive Aggression and Dominance - 1/13/2010 5:02:50 PM   
sweetboundesire


Posts: 285
Joined: 10/29/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyOddsworth

To me, topping from the bottom is a much more passive aggressive behavior than dominance.


being new to this...what is defined as "topping from the bottom?" is it truly p.a.? is it when a sub challenges her Dom or calls him a jerk? I'm confused about this statement.

(in reply to LadyOddsworth)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Passive Aggression and Dominance - 1/13/2010 5:04:37 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Sunshiny girl. I understand what you are saying. I think that the difference between your honesty and my honesty ends up being, in large part, personality. I tend to be more economical, if you want to use that term. Some would call it brutal, to me it isn't. I am simply answering in the very same way I would want to be answered. I do not want a bunch of beating about the bush and extra words. Just give me the facts.

Example: I am with my sister shopping for some new riding jeans and she asks me "Do these make my ass look fat?" It is a simple question that only requires a yes or no... and I will most generally reply with a yes or no. Some people would get upset if they asked that question and I answered with a "yes". Why??? They asked, I answered. Why should I waste time trying to find 20 words to say what one word does? BUT......if they are sensitive to such a blunt question, I feel it is their responsibility to ask the question differently. Perhaps something like "LeeAnn, do you think these are the jeans I should buy or do you think a different pair would look better?" I can answer something like "Nooo, not those, try these instead!" Or, "I liked the first pair better."  The sensitive person is taking responsibility for their reaction instead of laying it on me.

I also think that I used the term 'sensitive people' in a different way than you are describing yourself. I was thinking about the people, that no matter how you phrase something, they seem to find any thought that does not agree with theirs, something to get upset about.

Another thing to remember, for many people, communication style is hugely affected by our upbringing. What is completely acceptable in one family, is considered rude and crass in another. What is PA in one family is well mannered in another.




Great, spot on post. You have done your parlour proud.

And great thread, Jeff, thanks for starting it.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Passive Aggression and Dominance - 1/13/2010 5:06:54 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetboundesire
being new to this...what is defined as "topping from the bottom?" is it truly p.a.? is it when a sub challenges her Dom or calls him a jerk? I'm confused about this statement.

If you search, you'll find a gazillion threads about "topping from the bottom" -- whether it is good or bad, whether it even exists, etc.  I don't know how Lady Oddsworth would answer your question, but the two things aren't always the same for me, though they can be related.


_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to sweetboundesire)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Passive Aggression and Dominance - 1/13/2010 5:29:36 PM   
LadyOddsworth


Posts: 141
Joined: 1/2/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetboundesire


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyOddsworth

To me, topping from the bottom is a much more passive aggressive behavior than dominance.


being new to this...what is defined as "topping from the bottom?" is it truly p.a.? is it when a sub challenges her Dom or calls him a jerk? I'm confused about this statement.


To me, (and others may have a different definition); Topping from the bottom is when a submissive tries to run the show from their submissive station. They try to get the dominant to do what they want. In turn dominating the relationship yet a Which is not what submission is, and is probably done through non direct communication.
 
To me, passive aggressive behavior is asking for what you want and or stating an objection or any type of communication which is done in a round about manner. Not just asking for what you want or need. Usually used in a negative manner.

_____________________________

We all have baggage, the question is; Is it carry on or do you need a U-haul for it?


(in reply to sweetboundesire)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Passive Aggression and Dominance - 1/13/2010 5:31:43 PM   
LadyOddsworth


Posts: 141
Joined: 1/2/2010
Status: offline 		Well I wasn't done with my posting above, but my computer thought otherwise. You get the gist

_____________________________

We all have baggage, the question is; Is it carry on or do you need a U-haul for it?


(in reply to LadyOddsworth)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Passive Aggression and Dominance - 1/13/2010 5:37:45 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMillgrove

Why, when most people really detest dealing with someone who is passive agreessive--does that person continue to use thais mechanism? I am forever puzzles why people cling to a behavior that doesn't work. Someone must be feeding the p/a bears??????



It was a mechanism used to survive childhood in a place where it was unsafe to be angry. And like any such salvatory mechanism, it causes problems in adulthood but cannot be changed without serious therapy. In a world where most HMOs limit therapy to 8 visits, it cannot be fixed.

A three year old is denied something and shouts out "I hate you". They get severely punished for expressing anger. They learn through repeated episodes that telling a parent "no" for anything brings swift punishment. They are not considered people with feelings and opinions of their own but dolls. The only way they can get their needs met, including the need to have some control over their own lives is to say one thing and do another.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to MsMillgrove)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Passive Aggression and Dominance - 1/13/2010 5:47:01 PM   
sweetboundesire


Posts: 285
Joined: 10/29/2009
Status: offline 		christ, it all stems from childhood doesn't it? yes...it does.

it must. I cannot fathom taking it to the extreme of p.a. I would just move on. I may get pissy, I may sulk and pout but then I would put on my big girl panties and realize this isn't the place I want to be. I would get down to brass tacks and find my own game plan. being p.a. must be something that develops early. I just cannot imagine it coming about later on in life unless of course you stay in a situation that sucks for so long...then perhaps.

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Passive Aggression and Dominance - 1/13/2010 5:52:47 PM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline 		DesFIP is right; it comes from being stifled, whether as a child or an adult who is insecure with the thought of outright rejection over their words.

My ex husband was a great guy, but he had moments of PA. And I clearly never do. It was tough communicating with him at times. In his case, anger was not allowed to be expressed in his strict, WASP home. So he resorted to PA.

In my outspoken and emotionally free Jewish home, we were allowed free rein for intellectual and emotional thoughts and expressions, including anger. In his family, anger was something to be denied and hidden. Thus, it festers and comes out in inappropriate ways and times, as PA.

With me, I yell, scream or discuss. It comes out and we all move on. Much healthier. Plus, for me, when I get it over with, I can have awesome make up sex; for him it was more difficult to let it go and let the sexual feelings back in.

< Message edited by sexyred1 -- 1/13/2010 5:55:23 PM >

(in reply to sweetboundesire)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Passive Aggression and Dominance - 1/13/2010 6:01:21 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		I can't believe I started a thread people actually care about.

I will try to avoid this in the future. I have the anteater rep and all.


Jeff

_____________________________

"If you don't live it, it won't come out your horn." Charlie Parker

(in reply to sexyred1)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Passive Aggression and Dominance - 1/13/2010 6:02:37 PM   
MsMillgrove


Posts: 260
Joined: 5/27/2008
Status: offline 		I think a lot of people contributing to this topic are using their own understanding of passive-aggressive behavior which makes for interesting yet also slightly confusing responses. There is a good reason for these varying definitions. Even the "experts" don't agree on all the varieties. The World Health organization has a set of criteria and the DSM-IV (the U.S. bible for mental health dx) has moved it from the list of personality disorders in Axix II into the Appendix B and plans on another move in a later edition, pending more research.

For now the Appendix B is defining it as

passively resists fulfilling routine social and occupational tasks
complains of being misunderstood and unappreciated by others
is sullen and argumentative
unreasonably criticizes and scorns authority
expresses envy and resentment toward those apparently more fortunate
voices exaggerated and persistent complaints of personal misfortune
alternates between hostile defiance and contrition

The language of passive aggression is not really polite, it might have a surface softness but underneath there is a seething quality of misunderstood, unappreciated or resistant.

When one talks about directly answering questions like "do these jeans make me fat" with "yes". or switching to something less direct. Those are not really passive aggressive traits.
Those language differences are shadings dependent on culture and relationship to the person.

The passive aggressive personality often adds a tone of martyrdom into a reply- or speaks with a seeming graciousness or simulated cooperation ..that when you listen closely indicates a different message, "you don't appreciate me. You take advantage of me. I don't really want to do this."

Personally, I have felt it most often when someone can maniuplate language in such a way that an agreeable low-key statement when parsed will expose a genuine assault. Almost like it passes by you harmlessly, you run it thru your mind again and you feel a little "ping" like you were just hit by a dart from a blowpipe. The truly practiced, excellent passive aggressive person works quite smoothly. And as a poster said above, sometimes they've honed it so long, they don't even realize how often they are behaving like this.

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Passive Aggression and Dominance - 1/13/2010 6:05:08 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

Are they mutually exclusive?


Jeff



I see Dominance as nothing more that one having the ability to influence and control the will of others. The methods such influence is gained is another thing all together. I believe that some can and do use passive aggressive behavior to obtain that Dominance over some people. It's a tool that some use... maybe not the most effective of tools... but for some individuals it works.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to Jeffff)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Passive Aggression and Dominance - 1/13/2010 6:08:05 PM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

I can't believe I started a thread people actually care about.

I will try to avoid this in the future. I have the anteater rep and all.


Jeff



You have to have a quota of serious threads to balance the funny ones. Especially since quite a number of posters have expressed displeasure that there are too many jokes in recent threads and not enough topics to be debated.

Apparently, this has been added to the TOS.

(in reply to Jeffff)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Passive Aggression and Dominance - 1/13/2010 6:19:48 PM   
WinsomeDefiance


Posts: 6719
Joined: 8/7/2007
Status: offline 		If, as a dominant, ones goal is to say one thing, but demostrate another - then I guess they aren't mutually exclusive. 

When I come across someone who is passive aggressive, I try to as kindly as possible, distance myself from them. 

Granted, I have a terrible memory and forget things on a daily basis.  Those who know me, know this.  I do get a lot of post-it notes, and phone calls from my friends to keep me on track.  But, I never promise to do something, without the disclaimer:  I'll probably forget, just nudge me in the right direction, and I'll get there.

My friends have often called me their absent minded professor.   But they love me despite my deplorable sense of here and now.






< Message edited by WinsomeDefiance -- 1/13/2010 6:21:24 PM >

(in reply to kallisto)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Passive Aggression and Dominance - 1/13/2010 6:30:22 PM   
MarcEsadrian


Posts: 852
Joined: 8/24/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMillgrove

The passive aggressive personality often adds a tone of martyrdom into a reply- or speaks with a seeming graciousness or simulated cooperation ..that when you listen closely indicates a different message, "you don't appreciate me. You take advantage of me. I don't really want to do this."

Personally, I have felt it most often when someone can manipulate language in such a way that an agreeable low-key statement when parsed will expose a genuine assault. Almost like it passes by you harmlessly, you run it thru your mind again and you feel a little "ping" like you were just hit by a dart from a blowpipe. The truly practiced, excellent passive aggressive person works quite smoothly. And as a poster said above, sometimes they've honed it so long, they don't even realize how often they are behaving like this.


You know, the DSM IV seldom hits the nail for me in describing personality disorders. Your words above flesh it out far better. Well done.


_____________________________

Omnes una manet nox

Founder, Humbled Females

(in reply to MsMillgrove)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Passive Aggression and Dominance - 1/13/2010 6:46:04 PM   
LadyOddsworth


Posts: 141
Joined: 1/2/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

I can't believe I started a thread people actually care about.

I will try to avoid this in the future. I have the anteater rep and all.


Jeff


Yay, Jefff! The AntMaster

_____________________________

We all have baggage, the question is; Is it carry on or do you need a U-haul for it?


(in reply to Jeffff)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Passive Aggression and Dominance - 1/13/2010 8:04:34 PM   
heartcream


Posts: 3044
Joined: 5/9/2007
From: Psychoalphadiscobetabioaquadoloop
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss
I think often people just haven't had "permission" in one form or another to express themselves clearly.  By respecting their words, you give them permission for their words to have power... safely. 

I strongly agree with this.


Ya, me too. sunshinemiss, I like the stuff you said in this thread, well done!

_____________________________

"Exaggerate the essential, leave the obvious vague." Vincent Van Gogh

I'd Rather Be With You

Every single line means something.
Jean-Michel Basquiat



(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Passive Aggression and Dominance - 1/13/2010 8:12:39 PM   
heartcream


Posts: 3044
Joined: 5/9/2007
From: Psychoalphadiscobetabioaquadoloop
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Level


quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Sunshiny girl. I understand what you are saying. I think that the difference between your honesty and my honesty ends up being, in large part, personality. I tend to be more economical, if you want to use that term. Some would call it brutal, to me it isn't. I am simply answering in the very same way I would want to be answered. I do not want a bunch of beating about the bush and extra words. Just give me the facts.

Example: I am with my sister shopping for some new riding jeans and she asks me "Do these make my ass look fat?" It is a simple question that only requires a yes or no... and I will most generally reply with a yes or no. Some people would get upset if they asked that question and I answered with a "yes". Why??? They asked, I answered. Why should I waste time trying to find 20 words to say what one word does? BUT......if they are sensitive to such a blunt question, I feel it is their responsibility to ask the question differently. Perhaps something like "LeeAnn, do you think these are the jeans I should buy or do you think a different pair would look better?" I can answer something like "Nooo, not those, try these instead!" Or, "I liked the first pair better."  The sensitive person is taking responsibility for their reaction instead of laying it on me.

I also think that I used the term 'sensitive people' in a different way than you are describing yourself. I was thinking about the people, that no matter how you phrase something, they seem to find any thought that does not agree with theirs, something to get upset about.

Another thing to remember, for many people, communication style is hugely affected by our upbringing. What is completely acceptable in one family, is considered rude and crass in another. What is PA in one family is well mannered in another.




Great, spot on post. You have done your parlour proud.

And great thread, Jeff, thanks for starting it.


Yup, again yup.

_____________________________

"Exaggerate the essential, leave the obvious vague." Vincent Van Gogh

I'd Rather Be With You

Every single line means something.
Jean-Michel Basquiat



(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Passive Aggression and Dominance - 1/14/2010 4:34:40 AM   
ranja


Posts: 2111
Joined: 11/1/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

Are they mutually exclusive?


Jeff


sometimes we practise a bit of passive aggression; a bit of sulking, a bit of nagging, a bit of back biting, ignorance and sarcasm...

sometimes we engage in full blown aggression and i might call him a 'grumpy bastard' and He might respond with 'stupid cunt' then i might even thump Him and He usually thumps me back harder...

we get along splendidly usually, everything included

(in reply to Jeffff)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Passive Aggression and Dominance - 1/14/2010 8:04:40 AM   
heartcream


Posts: 3044
Joined: 5/9/2007
From: Psychoalphadiscobetabioaquadoloop
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

I can't believe I started a thread people actually care about.

Jeff


"If people concentrated on the really important things in life, there'd be a shortage of fishing poles." --Doug Larson

_____________________________

"Exaggerate the essential, leave the obvious vague." Vincent Van Gogh

I'd Rather Be With You

Every single line means something.
Jean-Michel Basquiat



(in reply to Jeffff)
Profile   Post #: 80
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