RE: What ever happened to service?

RE: What ever happened to service? (Full Version)

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caitlyn -> RE: What ever happened to service? (3/23/2006 10:03:30 PM)
Try Papa John's ... they will deliver in 30 minutes or less.

Nosathro -> RE: What ever happened to service? (3/23/2006 10:20:32 PM)
Tal and greetings If this Gorean Master may add his view of the subject. Service is why a slave is. Goreans have a saying "A kajira(slave) is happiest when serving." In the Gorean community a person who is a kajira or kajiru learns to serve, positions, commands, protocols, service, it is lenghty demanding but that is what a kajira is for. I also teach and have a website on kajira training. I wish you well Nosathro

Rayne58 -> RE: What ever happened to service? (3/23/2006 11:26:16 PM)
Master and I live together and I take care of Him as He suffers from ill health (renal failure and diabetes being the main problems). We have just hired a cleaner to come in for a couple of hours a week to take care of the heavier cleaning. I'll be honest here and state that I absolutely loathe cleaning. I don't mind cooking and laundry and shopping but cleaning [:'(] I'd much rather spend that time with Master doing things we enjoy not up to my elbows in vacuming and mopping. It will be worth the $50 a week just to have those chores taken care of by someone else. Service.....I do my share of service. I cook His meals, and serve Him first. His medications are laid out ready for Him, and I measure out and inject His insulin. I keep all the scripts filled, and remind Him when to get new ones (and believe me there are quite a few). I help Him bathe and wash His hair and cut it and trim His beard when necessary. Laundry is done twice weekly. I drive Him to dialysis and go do any shopping necessary while He is there and then drive Him home again. I'm learning to set up the machine and take blood pressure etc in preparation for the time we will be doing this at home. I keep an eye on His blood sugar levels, if it gets low in the middle of the night I am up getting Him juice or jellybeans to boost it up. I often have broken sleep so I'm often tired. Having someone come in to take care of the heavier chores means I am not a stressed out sub any more than I have to be[:)] and as long as it gets done, does it really matter who does it??[&:]

slavejali -> RE: What ever happened to service? (3/23/2006 11:45:04 PM)
I can appreciate the lifestyle your living Rayne. You could have been writing about me a few years ago, if you ever want to email me, dont hesitate. Is your Master going to be using Peritineal Dialysis at home?

Rayne58 -> RE: What ever happened to service? (3/23/2006 11:58:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slavejali I can appreciate the lifestyle your living Rayne. You could have been writing about me a few years ago, if you ever want to email me, dont hesitate. Is your Master going to be using Peritineal Dialysis at home? He was on peritoneal for over 4 years but repeated bouts of peritonitis have put paid to it and he's now on haemodialysis at the hospital. When He gets his fistula done we will both be going to have training so we can do that at home too. I may take you up on the email offer, thank you![:)]

twicehappy -> RE: What ever happened to service? (3/24/2006 3:35:06 AM)
ORIGINAL catize quote: Are we mind-readers that we will know absolutely without being told what service is required? "Let's be real" would include the fact the dominant takes responsibility to be clear about what is expected from a prospective submissive. Mind readers? No. The service oriented slave sub learns to notice their owners likes and dislikes. Pays attention to their little signals, indicators that they normally display, sometimes unknowingly, that they will need/want something shortly, ie: his cigarette pack is almost empty, her soda is getting watery from sitting and she hates that, and opens a new pack; fix a fresh glass without being told. It’s really about using your observational skills. Once you learn all those little things, you never even have to pay attention yourself, handling those things become 2nd nature to the sub/slave too. Absolutely boundaries and expectations should be discussed at 1st. What I was speaking of was what happened to, to me at least, used to seem to be more of, the service oriented sub/slave that did these things automatically, it was/is just a part of who they are, what they do.

twicehappy -> RE: What ever happened to service? (3/24/2006 3:38:53 AM)
ORIGINAL littlesarbon quote: To be honest, service is a lot of work. It involves a lot of attention to detail and dedication to person(s) that may not be duplicated in other aspects of the scene or lifestyle. I don't believe a lot of people are like me in that they receive lots and lots of personal pleasure from pleasing the person to whom they have surrendered in ways that are extremely altruistic and focus-centered. When I was owned, I never saw the things I had to do as "chores" but things I could do to make her happy. That meant a lot to me. Over the years since then, I've come across a number of women who didn't understand that, and the experiences have been somewhat unsatisfying, to the point of where I felt perhaps other submissives might serve them better, as the whole discipline seems to have changed from underneath me. smiles... EXACTLY!

twicehappy -> RE: What ever happened to service? (3/24/2006 3:43:28 AM)
ORINGINAL KittenWithaTwist quote: Perhaps, instead of ranting about why every single submissive/slave isn't just like you, you should open your mind to the possibility that your owner may be looking for different types of slaves to join your home, rather than the same cookie cut out over and over again. One more time! Could you please read the intial post, copy and paste, send it to me, and show me exactly where i was ranting? Or where i stated everybody should be like me? Damn i must have written quite a bit i do not remember! Go figure, maybe it was a blond moment!

doves -> RE: What ever happened to service? (3/24/2006 3:51:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: twicehappy It’s really about using your observational skills. Once you learn all those little things, you never even have to pay attention yourself, handling those things become 2nd nature to the sub/slave too. twicehappy, as i said in my origional post on here.. its what comes natural to me. After getting to know Him, and His needs, it is as you say, a lot to do with observation.. If He looks tired, i fix Him a drink and ask if He wants a massage or a bath run.. Quite a few here have said it is a lot to do with the respective couple/Master~kajira/Dom~sub as to how their service is done. which i agree with ~ for no two are the same. [not sure that bit came out right] What i post here, is merely how things run within the relationship ShibariJon and i have. each person and each relationship differs regardless of the lifestyle they choose/ or are in.

ShiftedJewel -> RE: What ever happened to service? (3/24/2006 3:56:26 AM)
quote: To those whose hard limits are housework, who keeps your house clean? To those wanting 24/7 kink. If you are in a cage all day how can you be taking care of the needs of your owner? What a pain for them to have to keep unlocking the cage everytime they need something. To those wishing to barter. In the long run if they wanted to pay someone for service would’nt a maid be cheaper and less stressful ? I've seen quite a few profiles that state hard limits including "House cleaning", "No strings housecleaning", "serving as a maid/butler" and dislikes "Cooking".. Hell, I've even seen some that says they "tolerate" collars... but that's another story. My thinking is this... I wouldn't go into a 'nilla relationship and state that I will not cook or clean let alone one with such a power exchange and I'm a dominant! Ok, before you beat me up... granted there are some that are only in it for the kink, I got that part. The part I don't get is when they call themselves a slave under those circumstances. quote: Dont all couples argue over who does what housework? *Ummm... no* quote: "Service" seems to be something that has become less of a force in the scene than it used to be, mainly because (in my opinion) it has been construed to be another "fetish" rather than seen as the lifestyle choice that it used to be. *Thus the choices of "Housecleaning" and "No strings housecleaning"? That makes sense. Thank you, I never thought of it like that.* quote: you should open your mind to the possibility that your owner may be looking for different types of slaves to join your home, rather than the same cookie cut out over and over again. *Umm, nope, we really are looking for that same "cookie cut out".* quote: Perhaps you should be a little more careful of the use of the term "we" - you really can only speak for yourself. *We.... there are three of us, that's who she is speaking of.* quote: I think a variety of things have happened to shift the dynamics. One being the few wanna bes wrecking it for those who are seriously pursuing a lifestyle. My own personal experience has been many looking for that service...be it domestic, sexual or what have you, who offer little, if anything in return. I think you nailed it. We have experienced just that. In the long run you end up jaded and hesitant to believe anything anyone says, I don't care what orientation you claim to be, it does get to you after having it happen so many times. There aren't any magic words that will prove who you are or that you are serious about your choices, all you can do is play your cards and take your chances. quote: It sounds like you’ve experienced some sort of experience that’s left you frustrated about subs/slaves and their motivations. Every week or so there’s a rant from someone who’s been burned, so I guess yours is the rant for this week. Is there really someone among us that hasn't experienced some frustration and disappointment? That doesn't mean this is a rant, it's a simple question. When did services like cleaning and cooking become a "fetish" and when did the kink become all there is to it? Again, I'm not saying that those that are in the lifestyle because of the kinky sex are wrong... more power to you and God speed in your quest... But no one is asking where the kink went, ok?

twicehappy -> RE: What ever happened to service? (3/24/2006 3:59:54 AM)
quote: quote: you should open your mind to the possibility that your owner may be looking for different types of slaves to join your home, rather than the same cookie cut out over and over again. *Umm, nope, we really are looking for that same "cookie cut out* Awwww......geee....(blushes) i love you too Mistress mine

catize -> RE: What ever happened to service? (3/24/2006 4:30:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: twicehappy ORIGINAL catize quote: Are we mind-readers that we will know absolutely without being told what service is required? "Let's be real" would include the fact the dominant takes responsibility to be clear about what is expected from a prospective submissive. Mind readers? No. The service oriented slave sub learns to notice their owners likes and dislikes. Pays attention to their little signals, indicators that they normally display, sometimes unknowingly, that they will need/want something shortly, ie: his cigarette pack is almost empty, her soda is getting watery from sitting and she hates that, and opens a new pack; fix a fresh glass without being told. It’s really about using your observational skills. Once you learn all those little things, you never even have to pay attention yourself, handling those things become 2nd nature to the sub/slave too. Absolutely boundaries and expectations should be discussed at 1st. What I was speaking of was what happened to, to me at least, used to seem to be more of, the service oriented sub/slave that did these things automatically, it was/is just a part of who they are, what they do. In my experience, every dominant has a unique set of requirements, their own definition of the service they desire. Your notion that all submissive's should 'automatically' provide what the dominant wants just doesn't make sense to me. There needs to be discussion and agreement from both sides. If there is discussion but no agreement, then both parties need to move on. If there is agreement, then and only then, both the dominant and submissive become obligated to fulfill their accepted roles. I would suggest that the adage, 'patience is a virtue' holds true for both sides. It takes time to get to know someone and what their needs are. It takes time to evaluate someone's potential and willingness to reach it. Can't find good help these days? Then adjust to the new era! Complaining is a waste of energy. Look at whatever isn't working and accept some responsibility to be a part of the solution.

slaveladyj -> RE: What ever happened to service? (3/24/2006 4:39:30 AM)
Without reading all the other replies to this, I must say, you just described my vanilla relationship. I take care of him in all ways, from keeping his house clean, to making sure I prepare what he likes for dinner each night. I also prepare his lunch for work every day, make sure there is beer in the house every day, set out his work clothes every night. When he needs something, I get up and get it for him. When he comes home, I leave the computer, and let him on. It truly is all about him in my household.

twicehappy -> RE: What ever happened to service? (3/24/2006 5:07:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL catize Are we mind-readers that we will know absolutely without being told what service is required? "Let's be real" would include the fact the dominant takes responsibility to be clear about what is expected from a prospective submissive. ORIGINAL twicehappy Mind readers? No. The service oriented slave sub learns to notice their owners likes and dislikes. Pays attention to their little signals, indicators that they normally display, sometimes unknowingly, that they will need/want something shortly, ie: his cigarette pack is almost empty, her soda is getting watery from sitting and she hates that, and opens a new pack; fix a fresh glass without being told. It’s really about using your observational skills. Once you learn all those little things, you never even have to pay attention yourself, handling those things become 2nd nature to the sub/slave too. Absolutely boundaries and expectations should be discussed at 1st. What I was speaking of was what happened to, to me at least, used to seem to be more of, the service oriented sub/slave that did these things automatically, it was/is just a part of who they are, what they do. quote: In my experience, every dominant has a unique set of requirements, their own definition of the service they desire. Your notion that all submissive's should 'automatically' provide what the dominant wants just doesn't make sense to me. There needs to be discussion and agreement from both sides. If there is discussion but no agreement, then both parties need to move on. If there is agreement, then and only then, both the dominant and submissive become obligated to fulfill their accepted roles. I would suggest that the adage, 'patience is a virtue' holds true for both sides. It takes time to get to know someone and what their needs are. It takes time to evaluate someone's potential and willingness to reach it. Can't find good help these days? Then adjust to the new era! Complaining is a waste of energy. Look at whatever isn't working and accept some responsibility to be a part of the solution. Again, exactly where in any of these posts did I state" that all submissives should 'automatically' provide what the dominant wants”? I did state yes there should be discussion beforehand in the very quote you copied and pasted here. No one has spoken here of knowing from day 1 everything the Master wants the slave/sub should know. Many have discussed aptitude,inclinations and desire of or for service oriented slaves to learn and anticipate their owners wants and needs. Did you actually read the initial post? It is VERY specifically discussing what has happened to the concept of service oriented subs/slaves? At this point your comments are so far off topic as to require a new thread. This is not about basic opening negotiations.

Wildfleurs -> RE: What ever happened to service? (3/24/2006 5:10:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel Is there really someone among us that hasn't experienced some frustration and disappointment? That doesn't mean this is a rant, it's a simple question. When did services like cleaning and cooking become a "fetish" and when did the kink become all there is to it? Again, I'm not saying that those that are in the lifestyle because of the kinky sex are wrong... more power to you and God speed in your quest... But no one is asking where the kink went, ok? I honestly have to wonder whether you or Twice Happy read the paragraph preceding the one you quoted? That paragraph substantially answers her question since you seem to be wondering why I didn’t answer the original question. I’m not really sure what you are talking about in terms of my quest and such. And there seem to be a lot of assumptions inherent in your rhetorical questions that just confuse me. But let me simply re-paste my paragraph from my prior post that seems to have been glossed over. quote: I don’t think that service in ye olden days was anymore present than it is now. In many ways it seems more present. There is an ever-increasing popularity of formal dinners, classes, retreats, and seminars all dealing with the various aspects of service. I don’t remember seeing that ten years ago. I think these learning opportunities would not exist were there not an interest. C~

meatcleaver -> RE: What ever happened to service? (3/24/2006 5:42:05 AM)
For many people, a BDSM lifestyle means sexual indulgence, fullstop. One just doesn't meet many people that see the lifestyle as a broader experience but I guess that is true of modern society as a whole. Very few people want to make sacrifices, very few people care for any sort of aesthetic life style, it is just too much of a chore to do anything but indulge oneself in pleasure. I think very few people take the time to find out that self sacrifice gives a more rewarding and longer lasting pleasure than instant gratification. Though at the end of the day, it is all down to personal choice.

barelynangel -> RE: What ever happened to service? (3/24/2006 5:46:42 AM)
To the original OP, Personally, i have always found it better if a slave allows the Man who owns them to direct how they are pleasing. All you speak of here -- what you do the little things are all based on familiarity of what you specifically know of your owners. Your familiarity is what allows you to do the little things that please them because you have learned it over time. They have taught you over time the little things that please them and as slave you react in doing these little things for them. And they find it pleasing. Most slaves i know learn their masters, over time they learn all the little things that please him, and do it. So perhaps in your situation the expectations of having another slave "like you" right off the bat, is having an expectation of the product of mastery and enslavement, before the mastery and enslavement has actually occurred. Pleasure is arbitrary, its personal and specific..... to look at a person who is unowned and deem their potential slavery by comparing them to a woman who has been owned and enslaved for 31 years, is like saying okay rookie, if you want to be part of this team you have to show me you equal baberuth. Babe Ruth didn't start off as a star, he worked his way up to it. He did not come in as a candybar, he came in as just a smidgeon of coco. (sorry to baseball fans, i couldn't figure out another analogy -- this is more of a point instead of actual knowledge of babe ruth). Slavery is the same... a "him" mentality in a slave is generally created over time as mastery and enslavement occur.... all the little things come in time as slavery is a progression. Just a thought, angel

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: What ever happened to service? (3/24/2006 5:57:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: twicehappy Many have discussed aptitude,inclinations and desire of or for service oriented slaves to learn and anticipate their owners wants and needs. Did you actually read the initial post? Going back to the excellent point brought up previously- what does "anticipating needs and wants" have to do with being service oriented in submission? Almost all personal relationships involve this dynamic- I do it for my friends, owners do it for their slaves, husbands do it for their wives, parents do it for their children. AND for a lot of people it has nothing to do with love- it's a simple fact of "things have to get done, it makes things better and more efficient for us if I anticipate them." Simply anticipating and working and preparing for those needs and wants is usually just a function of working well together in a relationship and being aware of the needs of the relationship. And what of the dominants who prefer to do the service themselves? I know many doms who insist that they do the cooking. For a slave who didn't enjoy cooking and has no desire to do it- how are they lacking for that person? So I guess I will repeat my initial point- NOTHING has happened to submissives who want to serve. They still do, and the masters who want them still have them.

catize -> RE: What ever happened to service? (3/24/2006 6:26:51 AM)
I see nothing in your writing where there is a willingness to teach. What I see is an expectation that every 'service oriented' submissive should be able to immediately provide the the type of service your dominants want. I reiterate; every dominant uniquely defines service. A cookie cutter submissive will only be able to serve a cookie cutter dominant; even then,only if the cookie cutters are of the same mold.

KatyLied -> RE: What ever happened to service? (3/24/2006 6:29:30 AM)
I agree, service varies as much as people's likes/dislikes varies. What one person barely notices; another will deeply appreciate. Service is alive and well.

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