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RE: When is it cheating? - 3/23/2006 11:57:00 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		Angelic, anyone can cheat or lie!

It is simply any time a person lies/manipulates to hide that they are not living up to the vows/expecations of the relationship they are in.  Thinking it doesn't equate to cheating... it's an action!

But, just because a person changes what he/she wants for themself and from the relationship is not cheating.  It's simply change of wants and desires... these wants/desires need to be communicate to ones partner(s) so that vows/expecations may possibly change or possibly instead maybe it's best for the relationship to end rather than changing vows/expectations.  This would be an Honorable manner to deal with the change of ones' wants and deisres.  It's Growth and change!  It's LIFE!

It often occurs a person begins to feel that their needs and wants are not able to be fulfilled in their relationship(s) with the given vows/expecations.  A person has one of two choices.... communicate these needs/wants to their partner(s) and seek to fullfil these things in an Honorable way.  Or they will lie/manipulate to their partner(s) to fulfill these needs/wants and behave in Dishonorable way.

my vows to my girls to honor them... It simply To be Honest To them!  No Matter what the Truth may bring!

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: When is it cheating? - 3/23/2006 12:02:48 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
Cheating is when a lover has to use crib notes to bring you to orgasm. This is why most Dommes prefer their subs naked, there's nowhere to hide crib sheets.

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RE: When is it cheating? - 3/23/2006 12:23:53 PM   
SweetEscravo


Posts: 193
Joined: 12/17/2005
Status: offline 		I don't think it says anywhere that just because someone is a dom/me/master/mistress that they suddenly can do no wrong.  If he or she cheats...they cheated.  There is no "well, I'm the top so I get to do whatever I want without thinking about my partner's feelings." 

(in reply to truesub4u)
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RE: When is it cheating? - 3/23/2006 12:35:18 PM   
angelic


Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetEscravo

I don't think it says anywhere that just because someone is a dom/me/master/mistress that they suddenly can do no wrong.  If he or she cheats...they cheated.  There is no "well, I'm the top so I get to do whatever I want without thinking about my partner's feelings." 


exactly.  Just because You are a Master doesn't mean You get to be dishonest, lie, cheat, steal, etc... just because You say so. 

_____________________________

~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci


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RE: When is it cheating? - 3/23/2006 12:45:44 PM   
angelic


Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
Status: offline 		i agree.  Where i have difficulty is when two people go into a relationship, commit to each other, then the Master (or Dom/me), wants to change the dynamics of the relationship to the detriment of the slave/submissive and then uses the "I am Master, you will obey or hit the door".  we are not doormats or robots.  To expect us to be such is imo completely arrogant and very self-serving.

<edited to say CRAP i meant to quote Mercnbeth in this post>

< Message edited by angelic -- 3/23/2006 12:46:57 PM >

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~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci


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RE: When is it cheating? - 3/23/2006 12:45:43 PM   
proudsub


Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BrianSenior

I agree completely, if you have to hide it, its wrong. ~BK~


So is it cheating to have coffee with a friend without telling your spouse, even if there is no sexual contact? What about chatting online if there is no cybering? Maybe these things are "wrong" but personally I don't see them as "cheating". My definition would include sexual contact. JMHO

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proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan


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RE: When is it cheating? - 3/23/2006 12:54:24 PM   
ownedgirlie


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Joined: 2/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: proudsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: BrianSenior

I agree completely, if you have to hide it, its wrong. ~BK~


So is it cheating to have coffee with a friend without telling your spouse, even if there is no sexual contact? What about chatting online if there is no cybering? Maybe these things are "wrong" but personally I don't see them as "cheating". My definition would include sexual contact. JMHO


i believe intent has a lot to do with it, actually.  i know i come across as wishy-washy on this subject sometimes, but that is based on my history.  Overall, i believe it is wrong to intentionally not divulge what i am doing.  If i look at this subject with regards to my Master and i, damn straight i am doing something wrong by omitting to him what i am doing.  i would be cheating him out of the knowledge he wants and needs to run his slave as he best sees fit, no matter how trite it seems to me.  i would be cheating our relationship by lying to him.  Period.

However, i look at the situation i had with my ex husband.  i would occasionally leave the house at 5am, telling him i was going to the gym before work, just to meet up with my best friend for breakfast (bless her heart for also getting up so early) because i wasn't allowed to see my friends except while at work.  To my Master i would feel like this was cheating.  To my husband it was a justified lie.

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RE: When is it cheating? - 3/23/2006 1:11:54 PM   
MsIncognito


Posts: 742
Joined: 5/24/2005
Status: offline 		Although it may not have been explicit in my post the overall idea is that if you can't tell your partner(s) about it then it's cheating. That means telling them of your intentions beforehand, not just casually mentioning it afterwards. My apologies if it wasn't specifically and clearly laid out that way. The "coming home afterwards" part of my post was more of an example, rather than a template for how it should be done. Of course your partner should know beforehand. That's just common sense. One can't give informed consent (or withdraw consent) if they aren't informed now can they?

quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u
This post here has been bugging me for past couple of hours. And now I know why... it talks of "afterwards".
You walk in and tell someone... AFTER the fact... that you have been with someone... hell... IMO... that's cheating period.

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RE: When is it cheating? - 3/23/2006 1:13:27 PM   
swtnsparkling


Posts: 1738
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		 
to be unfaithful - using  dishonesty or deception to escape being found out

quote:

It's cheating when...
..there is an expectation of a monogamous pairing, and one of the partners seeks a third party and engages in extracurricular activities without the knowledge and/or consent of the other partner.
...there is an expecation of a polyfidelitous grouping, and one of the members of that group seeks out another partner and engages in activities without the knowledge and/or consent of the other people in the group

It's cheating any time there is an expectation of fidelity in a relationship (whether monogamy or polyamory-fidelity is still fidelity) and one of the people involved in that relationship seeks out other partners without telling the person/people they are involved with.  Or, even worse, lies to them about it.. Mystical Phoenix


So Excellently said

_____________________________

Never make anyone a priority who treats you as an option 2003

Walk in Peace
A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better than a "Yes" uttered merely to please



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RE: When is it cheating? - 3/23/2006 1:16:05 PM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: proudsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: BrianSenior

I agree completely, if you have to hide it, its wrong. ~BK~


So is it cheating to have coffee with a friend without telling your spouse, even if there is no sexual contact? What about chatting online if there is no cybering? Maybe these things are "wrong" but personally I don't see them as "cheating". My definition would include sexual contact. JMHO


Yep... there's a difference in cheating sexually, cheating on diets, friendships, relationships, life.... there will be different aspects of it all. I talk with lots of people, doesn't mean i'm cheating. Do I hide it.. nope... if asked.. I will tell who, what, when, and where.  But it also depends on who is doing the asking on just how much information I give. I won't lie about it, I just my leave out some the information. Now IF this one was owned, all would be told. Lock stock and barrel. But sense not, it's my choice of what I tell to who.


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Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

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RE: When is it cheating? - 3/23/2006 1:16:18 PM   
MrDiscipline44


Posts: 1776
Joined: 1/5/2005
Status: offline 		I believe people will always have differing views of what is considered cheating and what is not. It only matters to the one(s) we're in a relationship with though. Some people don't want to know who their S/O is sleeping with. Some actually say "Don't bring home a disease and we'll be alright" and leave it at that.

My S/O wants to at least meet the woman before I give her a "ride" around the block. For her, it's not cheating since she at leasts knows what's going on.

For my slave there is no need to know. There is no it's cheating if it this, it's cheating if it's that. She is a slave, therefore my relationship with her is not a "dating/married to" type of relationship. We don't have a romantic relationship. Do I have to tell her? No and she knows and excepts this. Do I tell her? Not always.

_____________________________

If you love somebody, you have to be willing to break them.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

Have you slapped your slave today?

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RE: When is it cheating? - 3/23/2006 1:16:28 PM   
angelic


Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
Status: offline 		what if there was no consent?  what if he/she was just 'told' this is how it will be?  Sure the quick answer is 'there's the door'.  Frankly, if One is that quick to dismiss another feelings, there wasn't much there to begin with.

_____________________________

~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci


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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: When is it cheating? - 3/23/2006 1:18:52 PM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsIncognito

Although it may not have been explicit in my post the overall idea is that if you can't tell your partner(s) about it then it's cheating. That means telling them of your intentions beforehand, not just casually mentioning it afterwards. My apologies if it wasn't specifically and clearly laid out that way. The "coming home afterwards" part of my post was more of an example, rather than a template for how it should be done. Of course your partner should know beforehand. That's just common sense. One can't give informed consent (or withdraw consent) if they aren't informed now can they?

quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u
This post here has been bugging me for past couple of hours. And now I know why... it talks of "afterwards".
You walk in and tell someone... AFTER the fact... that you have been with someone... hell... IMO... that's cheating period.



Nope, sorry. My bust here on this one... not enough caffine in system before reading. And after caffine injected.. wired and not thinking it all out again, just dwelling on the memory of the first reading.. LOL.. sorry.
And yes, with your return response, I so do see more clearly what you had said the first go around. Again... my bust.. and my apologies...
Jessica

< Message edited by truesub4u -- 3/23/2006 1:22:04 PM >

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: When is it cheating? - 3/23/2006 1:19:20 PM   
MsIncognito


Posts: 742
Joined: 5/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

So is it cheating to have coffee with a friend without telling your spouse, even if there is no sexual contact? What about chatting online if there is no cybering? Maybe these things are "wrong" but personally I don't see them as "cheating". My definition would include sexual contact. JMHO


And that's where communication comes in. It's up to the people in th relationship to define for themselves what is or is not cheating and within which parameters. In a situation where a couple started out their relationship monogamous then I would hope there would be discussion around why one or both of them want to change that and from there they can re-draw their new relationship boundaries. As I said originally, I think that if you inform your partner then you're not cheating. However, just walking in and saying "BTW, I'm going to start sleeping with other people as of June 23rd, thought I'd let you know" isn't exactly how I'd prefer a partner to go about it. Obeying the letter of the law vs. the spirit of the law may be technically correct, but it doesn't often make for good citizenry.

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RE: When is it cheating? - 3/23/2006 1:21:09 PM   
MsIncognito


Posts: 742
Joined: 5/24/2005
Status: offline 		No biggie. It happens

quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u
Nope, sorry. My bust here on this one... not enough caffine in system before reading. And after caffine injected.. wired and not thinking it ll out again, just dwelling on the memory of the first reading.. LOL.. sorry.
And yes, with your return response, I so do see more clearly what you had said the first go around. Again... my bust.. and my apologies...
Jessica


(in reply to truesub4u)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: When is it cheating? - 3/23/2006 1:26:45 PM   
SimplyV


Posts: 351
Joined: 11/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

This question has arisen in my mind several times over the past several weeks. In a M/s relationship does the Master/Dom/me EVER cheat? Or is it simply He/She is Master/Dom/me and His/Her submissive/slave has to bury any misgivings about it? Is it not cheating, simply because He/She went to their spouse/significant other and told them they were searching for others? Or, is it only cheating when He/She does it behind another's back? How do Yyou define cheating? Thank you.


I believe that is defined by what is agreed to. Some people agree that they want it done behind their back (aka don't ask don't tell). Some people have agreed they want to know every detail.

Some people have agreed to monogamy, and suddenly the rules change. And the "Master" pulls "rank" on the sub and makes the change. I don't think this is right. It should be agreed upon, or walk.

Some people have agreed to poly (polygamy, polyamory, whatever) from the get-go. If it has been established from the begining, I don't really see where the sub/slave has a leg to stand on so to speak. But any good Dominant would talk about it and get to the bottom of the problem, before continuing. Sometimes the sub/slave has good reasons for their resistance.. and its not always a resistance to poly per se, but to the particular person the Dom is choosing. Any concerns should be addressed, but in reality the Dom has the final say. If the sub really can't handle it, they can always walk.

Cheating is breaking an agreement. In my head anyway.

< Message edited by SimplyV -- 3/23/2006 1:28:40 PM >

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RE: When is it cheating? - 3/23/2006 1:33:48 PM   
TampaDomCouple


Posts: 3
Joined: 6/14/2005
Status: offline 		Honor binds each of us, regardless of our station. It is not just about what you say or don't, but what you allow your partner/s to believe about your keeping of the sanctity of the relationship. If that cute little girl you are chatting online with thinks you are a candidate for them, while your relationship partner believes you are only theirs, I think you are cheating on both of them. You are being dishonest and deceitful. There aren't any gray areas in honesty or honor.

_____________________________

In Leather,
Robert and Lisa
http://www.tampafetishparty.com

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RE: When is it cheating? - 3/23/2006 1:35:00 PM   
angelic


Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
Status: offline 		very well said.

_____________________________

~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci


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RE: When is it cheating? - 3/23/2006 1:43:53 PM   
Submotive


Posts: 440
Joined: 9/9/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

This question has arisen in my mind several times over the past several weeks.  In a M/s relationship does the Master/Dom/me EVER cheat? Or is it simply He/She is Master/Dom/me and His/Her submissive/slave has to bury any misgivings about it?  Is it not cheating, simply because He/She went to their spouse/significant other and told them they were searching for others?  Or, is it only cheating when He/She does it behind another's back?  How do Yyou define cheating?  Thank you.

i define cheating as when a person does not adhere to the agreements made. Period. If you change Y/your mind and W/we discuss it first, before any action is taken and W/we come to a new agreement then i'd say that's not cheating. Even in a M/s relationship there are original agreements. Now if the agreement is that the Master/Mistress can do whatever They want when They want. Well then, no it's not cheating.

Personally, i'm monogamous so wouldn't become involved with anyone Who isn't because i know i don't handle it well.

_____________________________

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i would rather continue alone than be permitted to show only parts of myself to my Beloved.

If you're not living as you would like to today, when are you going to start?

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: When is it cheating? - 3/23/2006 1:55:59 PM   
daddysprop247


Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetEscravo

I don't think it says anywhere that just because someone is a dom/me/master/mistress that they suddenly can do no wrong.  If he or she cheats...they cheated.  There is no "well, I'm the top so I get to do whatever I want without thinking about my partner's feelings." 


exactly.  Just because You are a Master doesn't mean You get to be dishonest, lie, cheat, steal, etc... just because You say so. 


actually, i disagree with this. at least as far as his own slave goes, a Master has the right to "do wrong". He is not obligated to be good, or kind, or honest. it is not possible for my Master to "cheat" on me, since he has the right to do whatever he wants, with whomever he wants, and it is only my business if he chooses to make it so. He owns me...i do not own him.
imo, "cheating" does not apply to a Master in an Owner/slave union.

(in reply to angelic)
Profile   Post #: 40
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