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Do vanillas accept more abuse? - 1/15/2010 8:02:36 PM

tsatske

Posts: 2037
Joined: 3/9/2007
From: Louisville, KY
Status: offline

So, I'm at work today. I work with senoirs - mostly seniors - providing care in their home. My client today is not senior, she is my age, but on dialysis.

Before I left she got into a shouting match with her significant other in which he out and out threatened her several times. Before i left I looked at her and said, 'do you feel safe?' She responded by saying 'He's a ---(insert explative). She is a right minded adult who was offered help, she gets to chose how to live her life, I left and proceeded to my next clients house.

On the road between clients I called to express my concerns to my supervisor. A woman in a social services job, I might point out. Her response? 'Yep, Men are like that.'

WTF? What men are like that? I would NEVER be with anyone who treated me like that, and i intentoinally look for someone who will beat me and call me his bitch. What am I missing?

_____________________________

“If you never did you should. These things are fun and fun is good”
~Dr. Seuss quote

Post #: 1

RE: Do vanillas accept more abuse? - 1/15/2010 8:09:52 PM

Aylee

Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline

~Fast Reply~

My thoughts are that the fear of being alone is greater than the "fear" of remaining in an unhealthy situation. The ideal presented by the media and pop culture is that a partner, ANY partner is much better than being alone. You are not "complete" without a partner. You should be looking for a partner, dressing to attract a partner. . . yadda yadda.

Do I think that it is much different here in butterscotch land (Hi there Aqua!)? Not really. How many come on to these boards posting about their unhealthy relationships? How many are looking for a dom, ANY dom? A sub, ANY sub?

I do think that there are people that have looked at themselves, really looked at themselves, and have decided to like themselves. And this of course is what I consider the most important step in creating a healthy relationship with another person.

_____________________________

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I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to tsatske)

Post #: 2

RE: Do vanillas accept more abuse? - 1/15/2010 8:17:51 PM

Lockit

Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

I was out one night and ran into a woman in a wheel chair. She was with friends and we got to talking. She had MS and as she talked I could tell she didn't feel safe. I promised to stick with her and ended up going with them to their house and I let them know that she had a friend now. She was being abused... I gave her every way to leave, but she feared more, being alone and dying alone. She accepted the abuse so that she could have someone there who might do something for her sometimes.

I hadn't heard from her in a while and couldn't get ahold of her, but ran into her abuser and he told me she had died. It broke my heart because no matter what I offered or suggested, she simply couldn't face being alone and she would have been. At that stage... hell... at my stage... it is hard to find someone who will be with you. She just couldn't be without the little help he did give and face what was happening to her and it was better to be abused than to face it.

I believe she died sooner than she would have, as she was doing fairly well.

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(in reply to Aylee)

Post #: 3

RE: Do vanillas accept more abuse? - 1/15/2010 8:18:31 PM

LafayetteLady

Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tsatske

So, I'm at work today. I work with senoirs - mostly seniors - providing care in their home. My client today is not senior, she is my age, but on dialysis.

Before I left she got into a shouting match with her significant other in which he out and out threatened her several times. Before i left I looked at her and said, 'do you feel safe?' She responded by saying 'He's a ---(insert explative). She is a right minded adult who was offered help, she gets to chose how to live her life, I left and proceeded to my next clients house.

On the road between clients I called to express my concerns to my supervisor. A woman in a social services job, I might point out. Her response? 'Yep, Men are like that.'

WTF? What men are like that? I would NEVER be with anyone who treated me like that, and i intentoinally look for someone who will beat me and call me his bitch. What am I missing?

As for the couple, sad as it is, that might be how they communicate. Is it healthy? No. Does that mean she is in danger or that he will definitively make good on his threats? No. Many people have poor communication skills.

As for your supervisor? I would report the comment to HER supervisor. She was totally out of line. I assume this client is somewhat new for you? You did exactly the right thing by asking her if she felt safe. I have a feeling though that this probably has gone on this way with them for some time. On the other hand, if you go back and find that she might have any type of injury or bruising that is not related to her dialysis, I would take things a step further and make a report.

Just like there are laws and safety measures about protecting children, there are almost identical ones for seniors and the disabled.

Again, your supervisor should be reported to her supervisor. It seems that she is not really well suited for her job.

(in reply to tsatske)

Post #: 4

RE: Do vanillas accept more abuse? - 1/15/2010 10:32:32 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

Do I think that it is much different here in butterscotch land (Hi there Aqua!)? Not really. How many come on to these boards posting about their unhealthy relationships? How many are looking for a dom, ANY dom? A sub, ANY sub?

Holy crap people pay attention to me?

Anyhoo...

I agree with Aylee. I don't think "vanillas" take more abuse. How many times has someone come on here wondering about this or that? People don't want to be alone.

Beyond that, the threats could simply be how they communicate. If she doesn't actually feel threatened, I don't see much of a problem that you need to be concerned with. It could be a give-and-take that you just didn't see the other side of. I do agree with LafayetteLady that if you start sees injuries you should make inquiries and perhaps take further steps though.

_____________________________

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It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

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(in reply to Aylee)

Post #: 5

RE: Do vanillas accept more abuse? - 1/16/2010 3:47:54 AM

wisdomtogive

Posts: 636
Joined: 11/13/2009
Status: offline

Absolutely not,!

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Happily owned by MstrDark1

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 6

RE: Do vanillas accept more abuse? - 1/16/2010 5:02:41 AM

tsatske

Posts: 2037
Joined: 3/9/2007
From: Louisville, KY
Status: offline

Yea, I am not unduly concerned about her SHe is an adult in her right mind, she gets to choose her life and her relationships. Rather he hits her or not, I would NEVEr put up with that - but that's why it's good that she gets to chose her life and I get to choose mine.

As long as she is happy - or happy enough to keep making the choice she is making, good for her. She makes many choices in her life I wouldn't make, and though I don't understand them, they are not within the scope of my job. For instance, she lives in the projects. It is dirty there, the appartment is small and far substandard. To me, the projects are where you live when you have zero income. When you are on disability, you can qualify for rent controlled apartments, which are like ten thousand times nicer. But, apparently, she raised 5 children in the projects while working full time as a CNA, instead of using section eight or rent controled housing to get out. Like I said, everyone gets to make their own choices.

I thought when I origanally met her that her domestic partner was someone she met after she became sick, but she told me yestarday that they have been together for 30 years. She also said, 'He is not up to my standard'. Well, you see, yes, he is. Your standards are moved by your thoughts and decisions, but in the end, what counts is your actions. If you stay with someone for 30 years, that is your standard. I am fine with her relationship with him is what works for them, rather I would want it or not.

the shocking thing, to me, was my supervisores comment. I am not shocked that somewhere out there are people who live in relationships I wouldn't chose, or that I might run into them. But, really, - 'Men are like that'? Just, Wow.

_____________________________

“If you never did you should. These things are fun and fun is good”
~Dr. Seuss quote

(in reply to wisdomtogive)

Post #: 7

RE: Do vanillas accept more abuse? - 1/16/2010 5:48:49 AM

lally2

Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline

i think that because of the word 'concensual' abuse gets a bit fuzzy around here. im sure abuse happens far more than we would like to think it does in this lifestyle. giving someone permission to beat us, use us and not always consider our feelings or act on them means that we are far less likely to call 'foul' when thngs dont feel fair or right or comfortable. hell some of us even enjoy the fact that things dont always feel fair, right or comfy.

obviously it comes across far stronger as an issue with vanillas because they dont consent to misuse and they dont, on the whole, turn for outside help and they tend to live with the abusive relationship alone behind closed doors. the thing with abuse in vanilla relationships is that it is often random, often escalates and there is no respect during those times. trust is broken far more because of this.

i remember talking to a woman once about an abusive relationship i was in. i felt alone and miserable and it was difficult to get away from him, i had tried. i remember her saying that she had been in a bad relationship and that she thought many many women had, infact most had experienced some level of abuse at some point in their lives. it seemed pretty horrific to me at the time. but looking back over my vanilla relationships all of them, without exception had some level of abuse involved, either physical, emotional or psychological.

since moving my ass into this relationship set up i have never felt abused or mistreated and yet at times the way i have been treated, had i still been unaware of this lifestyle i might well have felt abused.

in the end i believe its in the mind set of what we do. that word concensual lifts the burden of abuse from us and because trust, respect and understanding of each others temperments and personalities maybe go a little deeper that mind set keeps us from that feeling of abuse.

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to tsatske)

Post #: 8

RE: Do vanillas accept more abuse? - 1/16/2010 5:54:09 AM

littlewonder

Posts: 15659
Status: offline

I see a lot of couples like this..bdsm or not bdsm ones. The kink makes no difference at all.
And it's not a male/female thing.
People are people.
The woman you spoke about didn't seem like she was in fear. Didn't sound like she was being abused really..or they probably abuse each other back and forth.
Apparently for them it's how they communicate. It's how they work their relationship.
I usually leave such situations just shaking my head and thinking "whateva works for ya babe".
Many would look at your relationships and think the same thing.

(in reply to lally2)

Post #: 9

RE: Do vanillas accept more abuse? - 1/16/2010 7:19:23 AM

xssve

Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline

Uh, it may be a previous generation cultural thing - you never watched The Honeymooners?

"one of these days ... Pow! Right in the kisser! One of these days Alice, straight to the Moon!"

He might just be channeling Ralph Kramden.

(in reply to littlewonder)

Post #: 10

RE: Do vanillas accept more abuse? - 1/16/2010 7:56:55 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

For all you know the people in the above story are in this lifestyle... for all you know....

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to tsatske)

Post #: 11

RE: Do vanillas accept more abuse? - 1/16/2010 8:13:00 AM

kiwisub12

Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline

I agree with the previous generation thing - remember the Dick Van Dyke Show - Laura Petrey seemed like an intelligent woman - but if Dick thought differently she became all flustered and doubting of her own opinion (worth?) Those shows are difficult for me to watch now - as is Bewitched and several others. That whole generation of women were brainwashed to think that being alone meant they had no worth as a person or a woman.

Actually, as far as that goes, I think the cultural brainwashing of women went farther back than that - think of the words spinster and batcherlor. They mean the same thing, but the emotive inferences are way different. And those two words are imbedded in our culture, and have been for many generations.

I have known women who accepted (to me substandard relationships - and it was from pure fear of being thought less of because they weren't in a relationship. And just from observation, it has applied to vanilla AND kink. But then i have known many VERY health relationships on both sides of the divide. It depends on the emotional health of the people involved, as observed by one above.

I think emotional health is more likely an indication of abuse than is kinkiness. The healthier you are the less likely you are to accept abuse - and i have been on both sides of the health thing.

(in reply to xssve)

Post #: 12

RE: Do vanillas accept more abuse? - 1/16/2010 9:06:18 AM

sexyred1

Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline

I don't think it is a vanilla nor non vanilla thing; some people knowingly stay in abusive situations for a myriad of reasons and some don't.

It is just the older generations, either. I know teenage girls today accepting emotional and physical abuse from their boyfriends. It can be passed down by a generation, but all generations partake of this.

I believe the psychology of accepting abuse that is non consensual is based on low self esteem. Healthy people do not allow others to abuse them other than the IRS and some job situations.

< Message edited by sexyred1 -- 1/16/2010 9:07:07 AM >

(in reply to kiwisub12)

Post #: 13

RE: Do vanillas accept more abuse? - 1/16/2010 9:46:44 AM

antipode

Posts: 1787
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline

quote:

What am I missing?

You were talking to a person and she gave you her opinion. What you're missing is that this was just one person's opinion, and no more than that. There are millions of opinions, and they're all valid for the folks that hold them.

(in reply to tsatske)

Post #: 14

RE: Do vanillas accept more abuse? - 1/16/2010 1:37:59 PM

sweetboundesire

Posts: 285
Joined: 10/29/2009
Status: offline

it's a matter of respect & trust
and being consensual.

that is the difference for me between
an abusive and D/s bdsm relationship.

it makes all the difference in the world.

(in reply to antipode)

Post #: 15

RE: Do vanillas accept more abuse? - 1/16/2010 2:29:01 PM

Prinsexx

Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tsatske

So, I'm at work today. I work with senoirs - mostly seniors - providing care in their home. My client today is not senior, she is my age, but on dialysis.

Before I left she got into a shouting match with her significant other in which he out and out threatened her several times. Before i left I looked at her and said, 'do you feel safe?' She responded by saying 'He's a ---(insert explative). She is a right minded adult who was offered help, she gets to chose how to live her life, I left and proceeded to my next clients house.

On the road between clients I called to express my concerns to my supervisor. A woman in a social services job, I might point out. Her response? 'Yep, Men are like that.'

WTF? What men are like that? I would NEVER be with anyone who treated me like that, and i intentoinally look for someone who will beat me and call me his bitch. What am I missing?

This is a thesis both on the nature of vanilla and the concept of abuse.
So i'm not going to attempt it...to many other theses to contend with.

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(in reply to tsatske)

Post #: 16

RE: Do vanillas accept more abuse? - 1/16/2010 4:32:29 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

People who are as stressed out as the op's clients and their caregivers tend to devolve into abuse more than people who are less stressed. Not a function of vanilla vs bdsm but of people who can cope vs those who can't.

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Post #: 17

RE: Do vanillas accept more abuse? - 1/16/2010 4:33:29 PM

osf

Posts: 3288
Joined: 10/19/2009
Status: offline

quote:

think that because of the word 'concensual' abuse gets a bit fuzzy around here. im sure abuse happens far more than we would like to think it does in this lifestyle. giving someone permission to beat us, use us and not always consider our feelings or act on them means that we are far less likely to call 'foul' when thngs dont feel fair or right or comfortable. hell some of us even enjoy the fact that things dont always feel fair, right or comfy.

i feel ok with that

_____________________________

all around nice guy and creative misogynist

i'm not very skilled so i just hit harder

i want a woman to make into the woman she never wanted to become

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Post #: 18

RE: Do vanillas accept more abuse? - 1/16/2010 5:04:52 PM

MasterSlaveLA

Posts: 3991
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tsatske

Do vanillas accept more abuse?

No.

_____________________________

It's only kinky the first time!!!

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Post #: 19

RE: Do vanillas accept more abuse? - 1/16/2010 5:18:11 PM

Phoenixpower

Posts: 8098
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

quote:

ORIGINAL: tsatske

So, I'm at work today. I work with senoirs - mostly seniors - providing care in their home. My client today is not senior, she is my age, but on dialysis.

Before I left she got into a shouting match with her significant other in which he out and out threatened her several times. Before i left I looked at her and said, 'do you feel safe?' She responded by saying 'He's a ---(insert explative). She is a right minded adult who was offered help, she gets to chose how to live her life, I left and proceeded to my next clients house.

On the road between clients I called to express my concerns to my supervisor. A woman in a social services job, I might point out. Her response? 'Yep, Men are like that.'

WTF? What men are like that? I would NEVER be with anyone who treated me like that, and i intentoinally look for someone who will beat me and call me his bitch. What am I missing?

As for the couple, sad as it is, that might be how they communicate. Is it healthy? No. Does that mean she is in danger or that he will definitively make good on his threats? No. Many people have poor communication skills.

As for your supervisor? I would report the comment to HER supervisor. She was totally out of line. I assume this client is somewhat new for you? You did exactly the right thing by asking her if she felt safe. I have a feeling though that this probably has gone on this way with them for some time. On the other hand, if you go back and find that she might have any type of injury or bruising that is not related to her dialysis, I would take things a step further and make a report.

Just like there are laws and safety measures about protecting children, there are almost identical ones for seniors and the disabled.

Again, your supervisor should be reported to her supervisor. It seems that she is not really well suited for her job.

I can only agree with this, to either report her or if you don't feel able to report her (as sometimes private possible consequences can stand in the way) to ask for an appointment with your highest manager to get a view from him or her or to attend the general enquiries area for public concerns at your social department.

I don't know how it is in your country but over here when people have concerns like yours they either come into our main building and report it to one of our staff behind their desks which will then be put forward to the adult protection team that they have a look into it (and after some recent issues they do it rather fast to avoid ending up in the headlines) or they report it via a phone call.

Whilst I do understand other opinions that sometimes it is the only one who is left for them or similar, it simply also can be abuse and I experienced quite a few years ago where a son abused his mother big time physically...so in my opinion it would be better to look into it then to turn a blind eye to it, as after all with just a glimps of it you aren't able to assess what the situation really is.

Good luck

_____________________________

RIP 08-09-07

The PAST is history, the FUTURE a mystery, NOW is a gift - that's why it's called the PRESENT

www.butyoudontlooksick.com/navigation/BYDLS-TheSpoonTheory.pdf

(in reply to LafayetteLady)

Post #: 20

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