RE: White American only basketball league. (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid



Message

Level -> RE: White American only basketball league. (1/23/2010 4:29:23 PM)

LOL. Yes, I know. Stereotypes come about from some grounding in fact.

And, for what it's worth, I'm not saying the all white league isn't bigoted (I didn't read the article, so I don't really know what I think), usually, crap like that IS coming from some fucked up feelings.



LafayetteLady -> RE: White American only basketball league. (1/23/2010 4:37:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

To all of you who think this is benign, normal, fair and even acceptable: you're fucked in the head [:D] .



"In the past 72 hours, I've been approached by two different parties to not only televise what we're doing, but to turn this into a reality show from the time we start all the way through, and at the end, have our white all-stars play a group of all-star black players, with the series called Snowball vs. Bro Ball.

But hey... it's all in good fun, right [8D] ?

Fucked UP.




You get so caught up in your "causes" you never really read what anyone is saying. Nearly everyone here has said that it is racist. But we also state that there is racism across all ethnic groups and cultures, including racism against whites, which actually in many predominantly black areas is pretty prevalent. I have friends that when they go to visit family in Jersey City, their son is regularly made fun of for "talking white," in other words, not speaking ebonics. You don't think that is racist? How fucked up are you?

The question you asked was whether such a league would be legal. I gave you the answer (which you conveniently ignored).

But by taking the position that only whites are racist and all the crap that other ethnicities do isn't racist, you are just another part of the problem.



LafayetteLady -> RE: White American only basketball league. (1/23/2010 4:50:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: VioletGray

One point that I'm seeing brought up constantly is this idea that the "Miss Black America" pageant is the same thing as this whites only basketball league.   Really? Here's one fundamental difference between the two:

When Miss Black America was started, young black girls had two options:

1.) Enter Miss Black America pageant.
2.) Enter the nothing at all pageant.

Are white players barred from the NBA? No.  The guys hired to wear sneakers and put the ball in the little red hoop are black.  But most of the coaches, team owners, most of the people who make the decisions are white. If there was ever a point in history where a young white kid who wanted to play basketball simply wasn't allowed, he would be completely justified in starting his own organization.  But here and now, in 2010  There is no justification for it.

There is validity to the point that the Miss Black America pageant is outdated. But has been largely marginalized in the way that outdated ideas are meant to be.  In fact, the ONLY time I ever hear it mentioned at all is when whites point to it as an example of how whites are discriminated against.  But again, the main difference between this racist endeavor and  Miss Black America, BET, the United Negro College Fund?

ALL of the others are justified in beginning in the first place.



Because they were justified in the first place, their continuation makes it ok? There is no justification for the Miss Black America Pageant anymore. There is justification for the UNCF, just like there are scholarship programs that are specifically for Catholics, Jews, American Indians, Women, Athletes, Italians, Eskimos, etc.

There was NEVER a justification for the BET network. It did not begin because blacks weren't permitted on "white" channels.

I hope that you realize that the very idea is ridiculous.  One thing that is universal is that every ethnic group loves to see examples of "one of their own" being successful, especially in the domain of the "Other." It's why Eminem is so popular (Even Eminem has said this, in "White America")   So if a "Great White Hope" came along and played the way Jordan played, the NBA would jump all over it.


Actually I think Eminem is an ass. I have no use for rap music at all. I don't consider it "music." That doesn't make me "racist" either. It simply means that I don't find someone musically talented to mix other people's music while reciting rhymes. For the record I have no use for Techno either.


quote:


The definition of racism according to dictionary.com is:

"1.     a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others."



If you are going to quote the dictionary, it would be appropriate to quote ALL definitions, not simply the one that supports your point. From the very site you quoted from:

rac⋅ism  
–noun 1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

Because you NEVER hear a black person speaking negatively about all asians, or whites or hispanics or any of those groups speaking negatively about anyone either, right? Every ethnic group is capable and has "members" who actively engage in racism. To believe otherwise is to simply be ignorant of reality.

I think an all white basketball team, an all black basketball team, an all senior citizens basketball team within the professional sector is ridiculous on all counts. Regardless of that, because he wants it to be a "professional" league, the players would be employed by the league. Once you get into employment, you can't discriminate based on not only race, but many other factors. So everyone is blustering over someone having an idea that they will have trouble bringing to fruition. Is there really a point to that?






kittinSol -> RE: White American only basketball league. (1/23/2010 5:34:33 PM)

You get so caught up in your 'beliefs' you seem to rarely bother reading the subjects of the threads you choose to knee-jerk react to. Who gives a toss about the fact that racism exists throughout the whole colour spectrum? That's not the subject of this thread. You argue it exists in an apparent attempt to justify the jackass who's trying to build this team: that's fucked up from beyond fucked up.

The fact is, there is absolutely no comparison with the sort of institutionalised racism that helped spawn that crappy basketball team and the kind you seem so hell bent on denouncing (oh, you poor victim, you).

I didn't ask you a question. I mused. I pondered. I wondered. It's not all about New fucking Jersey, and nobody's out there to get you [8D] . If you don't see the point of the blustering, let me ask you: what in the fuck are you still doing here arguing?



LafayetteLady -> RE: White American only basketball league. (1/23/2010 5:36:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

You get so caught up in your 'beliefs' you seem to rarely bother reading the subjects of the threads you choose to knee-jerk react to. Who gives a toss about the fact that racism exists throughout the whole colour spectrum? That's not the subject of this thread. You argue it exists in an apparent attempt to justify the jackass who's trying to build this team: that's fucked up from beyond fucked up.

The fact is, there is absolutely no comparison with the sort of institutionalised racism that helped spawn that crappy basketball team and the kind you seem so hell bent on denouncing (oh, you poor victim, you).

I didn't ask you a question. I mused. I pondered. I wondered. It's not all about New fucking Jersey, and nobody's out there to get you [8D] . If you don't see the point of the blustering, let me ask you: what in the fuck are you still doing here arguing?


Actually the subject of this thread:

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

More to the point: is this legal?! The whole thing is hopefully doomed for failure, and the question of the legality will be moot.



I answered that question, which you still don't acknowledge, because that really wasn't your agenda anyway. At what point did I try to "justify" this guy starting an all white basketball team? I used NJ because that is where I am from. I'm sure the same thing happens in Harlem, Detroit, and any other predominantly black area. Is that really so difficult for you to wrap your head around?

Actually you posted asking the general population of the forums a question. You just never seem to like it when anyone else doesn't respond as though you are the brighest star in the sky for seeing the things you see.

So since you DID ask a question, and since you STILL don't know the answer, I will repeat it.

A professional basketball team is a corporate entity, and the players are employees. A corporation can not discriminate against race for employment. Therefore, this "idea" of a professional all white basketball team is not legal.

You asked a question and then went on your racism rant. I never claimed to be a "victim," although you regularly do. I claimed that racism exists across ALL ethnicities. That is a FACT, not an opinion by the way. The fact that you think only racism expressed by whites is bad, while ignoring the rest means you condone racism as long as it is among a "group" you seem to think is entitled.

As for Merc's position on Affirmative Action, you have issues with it because you don't really understand how it works and he does. I have rarely seen someone who gets so indignant about things they don't understand.



Aynne88 -> RE: White American only basketball league. (1/23/2010 5:55:56 PM)


Well. Kittin is usually pretty well versed in her topics. I am willing to bet she certainly does know about it.

I am an employer, I am also in agreement with kittin, unless you live on another planet, there is absolutely a need for Affirmative Action. Could it use some tweaking? Well fuck yes, but what gov't program couldn't?



Mercnbeth -> RE: White American only basketball league. (1/23/2010 6:10:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88

Well. Kittin is usually pretty well versed in her topics. I am willing to bet she certainly does know about it.

I am an employer, I am also in agreement with kittin, unless you live on another planet, there is absolutely a need for Affirmative Action. Could it use some tweaking? Well fuck yes, but what gov't program couldn't?


It's well know I'm from the planet 'Merc-land'. Affirmative Action is needed for two things. To make one group of people feel they are inferior, and to make another group feel they are doing the right thing for inferior people. On my planet both of those positions are taken from ignorance.

Anytime you have a more equal status assigned to one group of people it's bigotry and prejudice. This league is no different than any racially bias entity that prohibits one group from participating due to race, national origin, age or gender. The stipulation that racist groups, such as those running the Miss Black America have motives based upon previous practices neither justifies or excuses the agreed upon position, that they are not necessary now. So why perpetuate them if not to perpetuate prejudicial, racist, bigoted policies?

The only "tweak" needed for Affirmative Action is to eliminated it; that way a black person getting a job or obtaining a high ranking position wouldn't need to doubt that they got the job due to their race and the company's need to fill their AA quota. The people who didn't get the job wouldn't have to have those thoughts either. Because of AA both can have those doubts and thought now - it's a sure way of perpetuating the problem.

It's either blatant hypocrisy or a actual belief that one group or race is inferior to another that someone would endorse any group that practices racial bigotry and bias as a cornerstone of its existence.



Aynne88 -> RE: White American only basketball league. (1/23/2010 6:35:19 PM)



Sorry Merc, I'm tired and so is this argument, but that is not what AA is. Of course you know that already.

When corporate america ceases to be dominated in the huge majority by white republican males that only hire and promote their "own" kind, then if won't be needed. Of course pigs will fly then and Sarah Palin will develop an actual working brain, so not holding out a lot of hope on that one.




Mercnbeth -> RE: White American only basketball league. (1/23/2010 6:56:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88
Sorry Merc, I'm tired and so is this argument, but that is not what AA is. Of course you know that already.

When corporate america ceases to be dominated in the huge majority by white republican males that only hire and promote their "own" kind, then if won't be needed. Of course pigs will fly then and Sarah Palin will develop an actual working brain, so not holding out a lot of hope on that one.
If you are tired of it, address it - don't compare it to other practices you consider racist because it points to a conclusion that I make - AA IS racist.

I know that is EXACTLY what AA is - a generator of bigotry. It accomplishes nothing to change it and insures perpetuating racism.

Any other time "corporate America" is brought up it's represented as being cold, materialistic, and interested in only one thing - money and power. Yet you would argue that they would sacrifice those to make a convenient argument for rationalization current racist practices like AA? So which is it, are corporations closed clubs of white guys who don't care about making money as long as their white guy club is maintained, or are the soulless entities who don't care who or what works for them to achieve their selfish goals?

Your self exposed prejudice regarding republicans in general and Sarah Palin in particular is a weak argument to justify practices with on their face are racist and prejudice.

You make no argument that AA isn't racist and biased, you only compare it to either antiquated or perceived practices that are racist. You make the argument for my point. The more equal status provided by AA is nothing but legislated bigotry and racism. At best you rationalize two wrongs make it all right. Reality is, two wrongs are both wrong and should be tweaked out of existence.



blacksword404 -> RE: White American only basketball league. (1/23/2010 7:26:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

I have friends that when they go to visit family in Jersey City, their son is regularly made fun of for "talking white," in other words, not speaking ebonics. You don't think that is racist? How fucked up are you?



And what does his speech tell them? You are not one of us. Everybody has different ways of speaking that identifies you. People from the northeast speak different from people from the southwest. If you were down in Texas and you heard someone speaking with a John F. Kennedy kind of accent, would you think they were a native born and raised texan?

You had Two types of Latin. The classical Latin spoken by aristocrats, the rich and educated. And then there was the Vulgar. Spoken by the common people. Both Roman. Your son's son is being made fun of because he is seen as an outsider. Same would happen if he wore $500 pairs of shoes and all his clothes were Armani. *One of these things is not like the others*



Aynne88 -> RE: White American only basketball league. (1/23/2010 7:34:15 PM)

Merc do you know exactly how predictable you are? It's just boring that's all. I know exactly what you will always say on these topics, and your mind is closed, probably mine is as well, I don't care. Racists, radical conservatives, the GOP in general, klansmen, Palin-ites, homophobes, xenophobes, etc. they can all suck it. I don't think it's any big secret. Oh and zealout Christians too. Shivers.

We don't agree on this. I'm okay with that.



LafayetteLady -> RE: White American only basketball league. (1/23/2010 7:57:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88

Sorry Merc, I'm tired and so is this argument, but that is not what AA is. Of course you know that already.

When corporate america ceases to be dominated in the huge majority by white republican males that only hire and promote their "own" kind, then if won't be needed. Of course pigs will fly then and Sarah Palin will develop an actual working brain, so not holding out a lot of hope on that one.



Affirmative Action lowers the qualifications for people it deems "lesser than." Two men both want to be lawyers, one is black and one is white. Do we allow the black guy to pass the exam with a lower score? When does it stop? Does the black guy not need to make as persuasive an argument in court because he is black? Obviously, for something like being an attorney, there isn't different scoring based on ethnicity, gender, age or anything. But there ARE lowered qualifications for some positions.

How can that possibly help to "empower" anyone? It can't. But that IS exactly what Affirmative Action attempts to do. And Merc is 100% correct in the fact that it is discriminating. Not because the poor white man is losing out on positions that he would have otherwise gotten. But because the ethnic groups that are supposed to "benefit" are being told that we "know" they can't possibly meet the "standard" qualifications. They are being told that they need to have a lower qualifying traits because they are "lesser than."

Affirmative Action was also a benefit to women. I remember quite an uproar over women having to pass with lower standards to join the fire department than the men. The reason being that women should not be "expected" to be able to have the same physical strength as a man. Well all men don't have the same physical strength either. But when your house is on fire and you are trapped inside, is it acceptable for the women to not be able to carry you out because she doesn't have to meet that requirement? I know it would piss me off that someone was there to help but not reallly qualified to do the job.



MistressTonya2u -> RE: White American only basketball league. (1/23/2010 8:24:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: EbonyWood

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressTonya2u


It makes my head hurt.





Yeah, thinking too much can do that if you're not used to it.


snarky little digs..do not deserve a reply. I am not one to be baited. I might be new to posting here, but this isn't my first time on a message board.

And I still maintain my position based on my life experiences, all the blustering in the world will not change how I feel...so instead of endless arguing that is not going anywhere...I really have nothing more to say on the subject.

Have a lovely evening[:D]



Rhodes85 -> RE: White American only basketball league. (1/23/2010 8:32:55 PM)

quote:

There was NEVER a justification for the BET network. It did not begin because blacks weren't permitted on "white" channels.


I completely agree. Yet start a white tv network and see what happens (WET...? sounds like a porn channel...). They'd scream racism and sue the network.



VioletGray -> RE: White American only basketball league. (1/23/2010 10:45:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

Because they were justified in the first place, their continuation makes it ok? There is no justification for the Miss Black America Pageant anymore.


Umm.. what part of the sentence....

"There is validity to the point that the Miss Black America pageant is outdated. But has been largely marginalized in the way that outdated ideas are meant to be."

...gave you the impression that I was saying that it is ok?
quote:


There was NEVER a justification for the BET network. It did not begin because blacks weren't permitted on "white" channels.


About this point you are correct, it didn't begin because blacks weren't allowed on TV, it began because black America and its interests were underrepresented on the small screen, relegated to the odd TV show and being pimps and criminals in other shows.  My bad. 

quote:


Actually I think Eminem is an ass. I have no use for rap music at all. I don't consider it "music." That doesn't make me "racist" either. It simply means that I don't find someone musically talented to mix other people's music while reciting rhymes. For the record I have no use for Techno either.


This in no way matters to the point that I was making here.  Whether rap is music is a whole different debate (I'm really biting my tongue on that one, because of *course* rap is music, but let's move on before I add another couple paragraphs to this post)  Even if you don't like Eminem and think that the art form has no merit, the millions who bought his album prove my point for me. 


quote:



If you are going to quote the dictionary, it would be appropriate to quote ALL definitions, not simply the one that supports your point. From the very site you quoted from:

rac⋅ism  
–noun 1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

Because you NEVER hear a black person speaking negatively about all asians, or whites or hispanics or any of those groups speaking negatively about anyone either, right? Every ethnic group is capable and has "members" who actively engage in racism. To believe otherwise is to simply be ignorant of reality.


  • Just recenty Michael Steele made headlines with his "Honest Injun" comment.
  • Bernard Hopkins made the news when he vowed never to lose to a "White Boy"
  • Reverend Jeremiah Wright was accused of being a racist, but I'm sure you know that one.
  • Jesse Jackson was taken to task for his "Heimeytown" comments
  • Al Sharpton... well, need I say more?
.If anything the other definitions in that dictionary entry help my argument, but at this point I don't think it's really necessary!  And finally...

quote:


I think an all white basketball team, an all black basketball team, an all senior citizens basketball team within the professional sector is ridiculous on all counts. Regardless of that, because he wants it to be a "professional" league, the players would be employed by the league. Once you get into employment, you can't discriminate based on not only race, but many other factors. So everyone is blustering over someone having an idea that they will have trouble bringing to fruition. Is there really a point to that? 


If someone attempts to rape, or murder, or rob someone, does it matter that they were unsuccessful, or are they held accountable for the evil intent of their actions?





subboi3382 -> RE: White American only basketball league. (1/24/2010 2:17:00 AM)

lol don't waste your time arguing with conservatives. Too much time inhaling exhaust from their trailer, NASCAR races or from the latest bigot gives them brain damage
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88

Merc do you know exactly how predictable you are? It's just boring that's all. I know exactly what you will always say on these topics, and your mind is closed, probably mine is as well, I don't care. Racists, radical conservatives, the GOP in general, klansmen, Palin-ites, homophobes, xenophobes, etc. they can all suck it. I don't think it's any big secret. Oh and zealout Christians too. Shivers.

We don't agree on this. I'm okay with that.



Level -> RE: White American only basketball league. (1/24/2010 3:42:32 AM)

....and it continues, cluelessly.....



kittinSol -> RE: White American only basketball league. (1/24/2010 7:20:23 AM)

You're so angry and riled up... The indignation is all yours, darling: God forbid anybody talk about something that disturbs them. They'll be in for a rough and boring ride of endless accusations and projections of your own insecurities upon them. Holy fuck, some people are tedious.



Mercnbeth -> RE: White American only basketball league. (1/24/2010 7:32:52 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

You're so angry and riled up... The indignation is all yours, darling: God forbid anybody talk about something that disturbs them. They'll be in for a rough and boring ride of endless accusations and projections of your own insecurities upon them. Holy fuck, some people are tedious.

Yes you are kittin - especially when in cases like this you are not only exposed as a hypocrite but wrong.

Neither you, or the other similarly inclined who think name calling is a response, could make a substantiated argument for your side of the discussion. The inability to say so, your indignation that you were only asking if it was "legal", and attempts to distract by name calling - just shows how insecure you are. I love seeing it, and never get tired of it; even when it happens daily.



kittinSol -> RE: White American only basketball league. (1/24/2010 7:44:27 AM)

My side of the discussion is this: the fuckhead who created this basketball team is wrong.

You are wrong for supporting him.

I realise how much you love talking to me... it's a pity you bore the fuck out of me [&o] .



Page: <<   < prev  6 7 [8] 9 10   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy
3.076172E-02