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RE: Lame posts: "No, I'm not into that. Sorry&quo... - 1/27/2010 9:49:29 AM

LillyoftheVally

Posts: 1826
Joined: 7/22/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen
I'm not sure what group you're hangin out with man. In SM culture, we know the proper language to communicate who we are and what we want. Knowledgeable bottoms don't call themselves "submissives"....ever. Primarily because knowledgeable bottoms don't really want to commit to what "submission" requires of them. They want to play.

I think Dommes would have more respect for the guys posting here if they chose to educate themselves on using the proper language to describe themselves, what they want, what they need, and what they're willing to do to get those things.

Interestingly my ex partners HATED the use of the terms top or bottom by straight men or by women because of the origins of the terms, so it depends what the dominants themselves believe the terms mean. I don't think there is a catch all way to express it. Generally in the UK the terms top and bottom aren't used you are a submissive a slave or a dom or domme and thats about it. So I guess that makes a difference too

_____________________________

'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

Nah I am not happy to see you either

(in reply to BoiJen)

Post #: 201

RE: Lame posts: "No, I'm not into that. Sorry&quo... - 1/27/2010 10:01:04 AM

VaguelyCurious

Posts: 5264
Joined: 12/2/2009
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit
Someone who presents any topic without the self focus or experesses himself in a way that isn't trollish will get good responses and typically doesn't mind the.. I am not into that. Someone who doesn't, typically will complain about being called on his lacks and will object to anyone posting on HIS thread, who doesn't cater to his kink or talk more about it. Then they often will create other thread or posts complaining about the first. Nipping it in the bud, right off tends to impress me as working better.

I suppose my question is might it not be easier for everyone to ignore and block?

I'm not telling you what to do or anything, but if you look at it in terms of energy expenditure then one click on the ignore button and one click on the block button is a total of two clicks (see? I can add!), whereas typing a put-down and then another one when he comlains and then a third one when he complains about the second one is an awful lot more effort than those two clicks...

_____________________________

Sthetic on FetLife.

(in reply to Lockit)

Post #: 202

RE: Lame posts: "No, I'm not into that. Sorry&quo... - 1/27/2010 10:01:39 AM

BoiJen

Posts: 2608
Joined: 3/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen
I'm not sure what group you're hangin out with man. In SM culture, we know the proper language to communicate who we are and what we want. Knowledgeable bottoms don't call themselves "submissives"....ever. Primarily because knowledgeable bottoms don't really want to commit to what "submission" requires of them. They want to play.

I think Dommes would have more respect for the guys posting here if they chose to educate themselves on using the proper language to describe themselves, what they want, what they need, and what they're willing to do to get those things.

Interestingly my ex partners HATED the use of the terms top or bottom by straight men or by women because of the origins of the terms, so it depends what the dominants themselves believe the terms mean. I don't think there is a catch all way to express it. Generally in the UK the terms top and bottom aren't used you are a submissive a slave or a dom or domme and thats about it. So I guess that makes a difference too

I do believe location has something to do with it.

Then again....we're your former partners primarily focused on play time, authority exchange? What was their driving force?

US subculture comes from the gay male Leather clubs of "old". The authority exchange came naturally as a position of earning rank through SM activity and community involvement. But because the goal was to move from bottom to Top through "earning rank" situations (taken from the traditions of the US military), there was no specific desire to stay in the subservient role...or at least it wasn't as well documented as the other stuff. Those who had the desire to stay in a subservient role, at least the occurrence and acknowledgment of it, became more and more frequent with introduction of SM activity and authority exchange to heterosexual culture. I believe, somehow in translation, the idea of "forward progress" within the community dynamic fell off.

Who knows...when and how that specific change occurred is pretty blurred because in the US, that change and transition occurred because of ProDommes gaining clients, servicing an under-culture, and feeding it by having public parties and because of that certain information needed to be kept more "under ground" than other information.

boi

_____________________________

Clips of MsKitty doin' stuff to me. Support the fan club, buy a clip today.

(in reply to LillyoftheVally)

Post #: 203

RE: Lame posts: "No, I'm not into that. Sorry&quo... - 1/27/2010 10:06:20 AM

Lockit

Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit
Someone who presents any topic without the self focus or experesses himself in a way that isn't trollish will get good responses and typically doesn't mind the.. I am not into that. Someone who doesn't, typically will complain about being called on his lacks and will object to anyone posting on HIS thread, who doesn't cater to his kink or talk more about it. Then they often will create other thread or posts complaining about the first. Nipping it in the bud, right off tends to impress me as working better.

I suppose my question is might it not be easier for everyone to ignore and block?

I'm not telling you what to do or anything, but if you look at it in terms of energy expenditure then one click on the ignore button and one click on the block button is a total of two clicks (see? I can add!), whereas typing a put-down and then another one when he comlains and then a third one when he complains about the second one is an awful lot more effort than those two clicks...

The only place I block anyone is in my email. If someone is on the boards, I want to know what is going on and will miss things that might actually help me understand what is going on and help when I do get an email. lol I will typically only give one or two answers to someone. I don't tend to argue something for a long time. If I am taking part, I am commenting with others about something they said. Typically... lol... I know I have broken my rule a few times, but for the most part, I won't argue back and forth.

_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!

(in reply to VaguelyCurious)

Post #: 204

RE: Lame posts: "No, I'm not into that. Sorry&quo... - 1/27/2010 10:10:14 AM

SimplyIsaac

Posts: 376
Joined: 12/20/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

quote:

ORIGINAL: hardbodysub

Ah, perception does cloud reality, does it not?

The more I see here, the more I am led to believe that the real friction is between those who want D/s and those who want B/D, S/M, or T/b. The D/s folks exclude B&D, S&M, and T/b "subs" from the definition of "submissive". The B&D, S&M, and T/b folks use the term more generally. A high percentage of female dominants who post on CM are looking for D/s. A high percentage of male "subs" posting on CM are looking for B&D, S&M, or T/b, and even though they might want some D/s with it, they are not as strongly focused on the D/s as the female dominants want.

I'm not sure what group you're hangin out with man. In SM culture, we know the proper language to communicate who we are and what we want. Knowledgeable bottoms don't call themselves "submissives"....ever. Primarily because knowledgeable bottoms don't really want to commit to what "submission" requires of them. They want to play.

Excuse me, but who is "we"? You have some broad, sweeping optimism there about the whole SM culture...whatever that is. Hardbody's observations are on the mark from where I stand. There seems to be a LOT of misunderstanding among people in the areas he spoke of. Defend the crowd all you want. Anecdotal evidence seems to be contrary to your leather elitist idealism, however.

< Message edited by SimplyIsaac -- 1/27/2010 10:11:24 AM >

(in reply to BoiJen)

Post #: 205

RE: Lame posts: "No, I'm not into that. Sorry&quo... - 1/27/2010 10:23:28 AM

BoiJen

Posts: 2608
Joined: 3/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyIsaac

Excuse me, but who is "we"? You have some broad, sweeping optimism there about the whole SM culture...whatever that is. Hardbody's observations are on the mark from where I stand. There seems to be a LOT of misunderstanding among people in the areas he spoke of. Defend the crowd all you want. Anecdotal evidence seems to be contrary to your leather elitist idealism, however.

If you're one of those people who refuses to acknowledge that Gay Leathermen Paved the way for you do what you want to do in regards to authority exchange and SM activity, then you might believe what you just posted.

Try educating yourself on the history...you can start here...

http://www.leatherarchives.org/exhibits/deblase/timeline.htm

The article is a collection of research put together by Tony DeBlase. If you don't know who Tony DeBlase is, here's his obit. and a brief history of his accomplishments for the entire BDSM/Leather community.

http://www.leatherarchives.org/exhibits/deblase/tony.htm

In Leather,
boi

_____________________________

Clips of MsKitty doin' stuff to me. Support the fan club, buy a clip today.

(in reply to SimplyIsaac)

Post #: 206

RE: Lame posts: "No, I'm not into that. Sorry&quo... - 1/27/2010 10:44:00 AM

LillyoftheVally

Posts: 1826
Joined: 7/22/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen
I do believe location has something to do with it.

Then again....we're your former partners primarily focused on play time, authority exchange? What was their driving force?

US subculture comes from the gay male Leather clubs of "old". The authority exchange came naturally as a position of earning rank through SM activity and community involvement. But because the goal was to move from bottom to Top through "earning rank" situations (taken from the traditions of the US military), there was no specific desire to stay in the subservient role...or at least it wasn't as well documented as the other stuff. Those who had the desire to stay in a subservient role, at least the occurrence and acknowledgment of it, became more and more frequent with introduction of SM activity and authority exchange to heterosexual culture. I believe, somehow in translation, the idea of "forward progress" within the community dynamic fell off.

Who knows...when and how that specific change occurred is pretty blurred because in the US, that change and transition occurred because of ProDommes gaining clients, servicing an under-culture, and feeding it by having public parties and because of that certain information needed to be kept more "under ground" than other information.

boi

Firstly, my partners were both, they are both pro dominants, both play in clubs as weel as being DM's and have an ongoing tpe relationship. As you say the terms top and bottom came from the gay community, and because the dude in the relationship started very much in underground gay communities, thats where he started his BDSM journey, he used the terms exclusively in that context and the idea of people using it differently amused him so he started to tell people about the history behind it. Of course terms change their meaning so I have no issue with that, it just hasn't really taken off as much here.

In relation to the gay community paving the way, though not aimed at me I know, I see what you are saying however straight couples have engaged in this kind of relationship since the dawn of time, the gay subculture were simply more prolific and probably more organised

_____________________________

'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

Nah I am not happy to see you either

(in reply to BoiJen)

Post #: 207

RE: Lame posts: "No, I'm not into that. Sorry&quo... - 1/27/2010 10:46:08 AM

LadyHibiscus

Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline

DAMN, Boi, I wish that more bottoms would just man up and SAY that they are. I think I have a line in my profile that says that too... (though I don't say "man up"... lol)

Generally I hate semantic games, but honest to Guy Baldwin, there really IS a difference between a submissive and a bottom. One is NOT more or less worthy than the other, but they are not the same! I love to play, but someone coming to me offering to SERVE when he really wants to get a nice set of cane marks and an orgasm is NOT going to be happy that he tried to deceive me.

On other fronts, Vaguely, you should know that Cloudboy has some real personal issue with Aakasha, and he expresses it whenever possible. I *suspect* that if SweetDommes had the same postings his response would be different.

I rarely go to the Master Zone, but I am confident in saying (based on my knowledge of other sites) that women don't start wanker threads to nearly the degree that men do. Possibly because women tend to be less focused on specific fetishes--this could be wrong, but in the last 20 years, I have encountered precious few women who are the "one-trick-pony" kinds of players. I think that MOST folks have a right to be here and post freely. I also think that we have a right to express our own opinions, and keep our own area tidy. I am NOT here on the boards to serve the interests of submissive males. I am here to speak to fellow dominants, share ideas and stories, and get a laugh or two if I can. There is a fine group of male and female submissives who join us in that same venture.

~~~~
who do I think does not have a right to be here? those who espouse racist, anti-Semitic, or other hate rhetoric and spew it everywhere.

_____________________________

[page 23 girl]

(in reply to BoiJen)

Post #: 208

RE: Lame posts: "No, I'm not into that. Sorry&quo... - 1/27/2010 10:58:35 AM

cloudboy

Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

bitter about your own dating difficulties and you seem to be blaming us for 'having it easy' as dominant women.

I am not bitter, and no, that is not what I said. Could it just be that someone who "has it so good" who acts like they "have it so hard" just pisses other people off? Could it be that such behavior is unseemly?

Do you talk to your girlfriends having trouble getting dates about "what's wrong with them" and how "its their fault," all the while you work in the beauties of your own, super satisfying relationship with your perfect boyfriend? Is that a case of you "just dealing with your own hardships in your own way?"

Hell, if I ever acted like that, I would hope others would smack me around.

As for the "bitter" thing, please show me the link where I'm having "dating difficulties." Maybe, we should discontinue our exchanges. I've tried to keep my focus on the issues, and you are misreading my posts and propagating false innuendos.

quote:

These women find that snark works

Must say its funny to see you defending this.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 1/27/2010 10:59:32 AM >

(in reply to VaguelyCurious)

Post #: 209

RE: Lame posts: "No, I'm not into that. Sorry&quo... - 1/27/2010 11:01:07 AM

cloudboy

Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline

The leather archives defend snark? Never would have guessed.......

(in reply to BoiJen)

Post #: 210

RE: Lame posts: "No, I'm not into that. Sorry&quo... - 1/27/2010 11:06:11 AM

BoiJen

Posts: 2608
Joined: 3/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

The leather archives defend snark? Never would have guessed.......

Yeah...cuz THAT'S what was posted.

_____________________________

Clips of MsKitty doin' stuff to me. Support the fan club, buy a clip today.

(in reply to cloudboy)

Post #: 211

RE: Lame posts: "No, I'm not into that. Sorry&quo... - 1/27/2010 11:14:35 AM

VaguelyCurious

Posts: 5264
Joined: 12/2/2009
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
I am not bitter, and no, that is not what I said. Could it just be that someone who "has it so good" who acts like they "have it so hard" just pisses other people off? Could it be that such behavior is unseemly?

Ok, fine: I misconstrued your comments about how everyone has difficulties and the mention of loneliness in your profile and I misunderstood you. I apologise for that. In terms of pissing people off, the notion that a person's success in a relationship means that all other problems in their life vanish is nonsense. The OP feels she has a problem. She started a thread to discuss how to deal with it. Being successful doesn't negate her entitlement to attempt to solve the difficulties she has with collarme.

quote:

Do you talk to your girlfriends having trouble getting dates about "what's wrong with them" and how "its their fault," all the while you work in the beauties of your own, super satisfying relationship with your perfect boyfriend? Is that a case of you "just dealing with your own hardships in your own way?"

1. I'm gay and single-no super satisfying boyfriend here...
2. Your analogy is inconsistent; you aren't the OP's friend, you are some random on a computer. Of course I don't treat my friends like that; I do, however, tell aggressive and unpleasant guys who hit on me unsolicited in bars exactly where to go, and I feel entirely justified in doing so. As far as I can see that's a much better analogy.

quote:

As for the "bitter" thing, please show me the link where I'm having "dating difficulties." Maybe, we should discontinue our exchanges. I've tried to keep my focus on the issues, and you are misreading my posts and propagating false innuendos.

I've apologised for misunderstanding you. I wasn't trying to propagate any innuendo; I genuinely thought that was what you were saying. An honest misunderstanding isn't a crime.

Although I don't think you have tried to keep your mind on the issues-what was all that stuff about dreams and ideals about if it was supposed to be relevant?

quote:

quote:

These women find that snark works

Must say its funny to see you defending this.

Mind if I ask why?

_____________________________

Sthetic on FetLife.

(in reply to cloudboy)

Post #: 212

RE: Lame posts: "No, I'm not into that. Sorry&quo... - 1/27/2010 11:26:58 AM

RedMagic1

Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: EbonyWood

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsHValentine

The point is, we all assemble here on the boards due to our varying life experiences, and pool our thoughts for collective commentary. So get over it and stop being a catty ape.

Pick a species.

You know derogatory and offensive remarks towards a member violates the TOS you signed, right?

Totally unnecessary.

Calling another poster a "fool" or an "asshole" is derogatory, but not contrary to TOS. However, her use of "ape" seems way the fuck over the line to me.

MsHValentine, I would have more respect for you if you retracted that statement. Right now, you're looking kinda sketchy.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to EbonyWood)

Post #: 213

RE: Lame posts: "No, I'm not into that. Sorry&quo... - 1/27/2010 11:28:45 AM

RedMagic1

Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus
who do I think does not have a right to be here? those who espouse racist, anti-Semitic, or other hate rhetoric and spew it everywhere.

Quoted for truth.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)

Post #: 214

RE: Lame posts: "No, I'm not into that. Sorry&quo... - 1/27/2010 11:33:27 AM

MsHValentine

Posts: 80
Joined: 1/6/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

However, her use of "ape" seems way the fuck over the line to me.

MsHValentine, I would have more respect for you if you retracted that statement. Right now, you're looking kinda sketchy.

How is the word: "ape" over the line? I need more info please.

(in reply to RedMagic1)

Post #: 215

RE: Lame posts: "No, I'm not into that. Sorry&quo... - 1/27/2010 11:58:49 AM

RedMagic1

Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsHValentine
How is the word: "ape" over the line? I need more info please.

It has been a common slur against black people since before the Civil War. You were insulting a black poster, whose username, forum avatar, profile description and photo all make his ethnic background clear. Not rocket science.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to MsHValentine)

Post #: 216

RE: Lame posts: "No, I'm not into that. Sorry&quo... - 1/27/2010 12:15:31 PM

SylvereApLeanan

Posts: 8275
Joined: 11/1/2007
From: Hell
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsHValentine
How is the word: "ape" over the line? I need more info please.

It has been a common slur against black people since before the Civil War. You were insulting a black poster, whose username, forum avatar, profile description and photo all make his ethnic background clear. Not rocket science.

Not that I agree with the use of "ape" in this instance, but she wasn't addressing a black person. She was addressing a white male. "Ape" is also a common slur against humans in general (e.g. "hairless ape") and men in particular (comparing them to gorillas, cavemen, etc). While her words may be in poor taste and possibly misandrist, they aren't a racial slur.

_____________________________

Sylverë
Dark Muse
30 Fluffy Points
Grumpy Cat is my spirit animal.
Shadow Governess & Mean Girl

"There's something that doesn't make sense. Let's go and poke it with a stick."— The Doctor

(in reply to RedMagic1)

Post #: 217

RE: Lame posts: "No, I'm not into that. Sorry&quo... - 1/27/2010 12:26:20 PM

QueenRah

Posts: 380
Joined: 6/3/2005
Status: offline

Thanks shallowdeep and boijen for your nicely-worded and well-considered posts. Education with the (newly?) proverbial "clue-by-four," while satisfying, indeed ain't gonna help the clueless. It is, however, a great pressure valve release.

QR

_____________________________

Life's too short to drink cheap booze!

(in reply to VaguelyCurious)

Post #: 218

RE: Lame posts: "No, I'm not into that. Sorry&quo... - 1/27/2010 12:26:56 PM

MsHValentine

Posts: 80
Joined: 1/6/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsHValentine
How is the word: "ape" over the line? I need more info please.

It has been a common slur against black people since before the Civil War. You were insulting a black poster, whose username, forum avatar, profile description and photo all make his ethnic background clear. Not rocket science.

You're right. It's not rocket science at all. It's very sloppy science you're implementing.

While you're so busy looking for posts to wave your finger at, try getting the who wrote what to who right. The comment to which you are referring is Post #: 163, and it was in response to Icarys.

On that note, I think this is a good time to bring this up, so I'm going to. I've noticed you have elected yourself as the community mother hen here and there on more than one occasion, lecturing people on their posting styles, what and how they say things, etc. Consider this an official request to stop using this technique to make you look superior.

(in reply to RedMagic1)

Post #: 219

RE: Lame posts: "No, I'm not into that. Sorry&quo... - 1/27/2010 12:28:24 PM

RedMagic1

Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline

I'm not going to chase back through the thread to see exactly who said what to whom. I took note when I saw EbonyWood's post, because he and I had a public discussion about the "new moderation," which included concerns from him about racial slurs, and statements by me that my reading of TOS is that racial slurs are not permitted. (He also said that he did not want to report posts -- and I haven't reported any posts on this thread, because I'm not somebody else's Post Reporting Device.) If he was involved in the conversation somehow, then I don't care exactly which post was being responded to, frankly. ("What's your problem? I called that white guy the n-word. I wasn't talking to you at all." That shit doesn't fly with me.)

Misandry and misogyny are both A-OK to engage in, by the way. And.... so is being logical and civil, and taking the high road!

Thanks again, Syl, for your work on the FAQ's. I am really looking forward to this. I also think the content of this thread was great. I'm sorry I missed it before.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to SylvereApLeanan)

Post #: 220

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