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ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

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ORIGINAL: Icarys

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With all do respect Icarys, I think there might be something in the inherent dynamic between those who identify as female dominants and male submissives/slaves here that you might not be taking into consideration.

Here is a bit of the reality. Even though a great deal of men claim to be submissive, I -- and several dominant women that I discuss with as well as a few submissive men -- have come to the conclusion that the ones that truly want to be submissive to a woman in the bulk of a dynamic such as in a female-led relationship are rare. The bulk of the men coming her to discuss their fetishes are often in fantasy dreamland and they want the payoff but not the commitment of submitting.

There is a certain frustration that we get so many do-me requests. When Akasha or other women express statements like you quoted above, it would be wise not to isolate them but to read them in context.

And I for one am greatful when anyone other than Dominas post here. The only thing I ask is that they try to see things from our perspective. If they can offer an alternate perspective respectfully, than all the better. That is how we grow.

- LA

Do you really think that it's any different in reverse? Femdom/sub/slave.. Dom/sub/slave

I do actually, based on what I've witnessed. But that is my perception of things.

- LA

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Well she says she is a Mistress, so what? I'm the President. Icky's point holds - authority needs to be demonstrated, not assigned.

I saw a claim that this forum in particular should be restricted, and it didn't appear to be tongue in cheek.

That alone didn't look to be a very wise opinion, wisdom being something genuine authority tends to possess.

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ORIGINAL: hardbodysub

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Here is a bit of the reality. Even though a great deal of men claim to be submissive, I -- and several dominant women that I discuss with as well as a few submissive men -- have come to the conclusion that the ones that truly want to be submissive to a woman in the bulk of a dynamic such as in a female-led relationship are rare. The bulk of the men coming her to discuss their fetishes are often in fantasy dreamland and they want the payoff but not the commitment of submitting

Ah, perception does cloud reality, does it not?

The more I see here, the more I am led to believe that the real friction is between those who want D/s and those who want B/D, S/M, or T/b. The D/s folks exclude B&D, S&M, and T/b "subs" from the definition of "submissive". The B&D, S&M, and T/b folks use the term more generally. A high percentage of female dominants who post on CM are looking for D/s. A high percentage of male "subs" posting on CM are looking for B&D, S&M, or T/b, and even though they might want some D/s with it, they are not as strongly focused on the D/s as the female dominants want.

The "reality" as I see it: D/s adherents consider the word "submissive" to be exclusively under their domain. Anyone else using that term to describe themselves is being at best unrealistic, or at worst, dishonest. Perhaps others should use the terms "bottom" or "masochist" instead of "submissive", but that doesn't really work, because there are all shades of gray in this realm. A lot of people really are submissive to a certain degree, and to say that they shouldn't use that word because their submission doesn't extend as far as you would like doesn't work very well either.

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It's too bad we can't just say what we like and don't like, look for people who match, and don't worry about the rest.

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ORIGINAL: Icarys

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Because it gives men - who may be falsely led by fantasy - a real idea of what the tolerance/passion level is by his target audience. How else is he going to know if his fetish is one that is going to be realistically embraced by women he's trying to attract?

That seems a highly arrogant thing to say. Who are any of you to judge a persons kink as unrealistic..

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ORIGINAL: Icarys
It sounds to me like your trying to set yourself up as an authority with a statement like that. That whole OP reeks of it, actually.

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Ah, perception does cloud reality, does it not?

The more I see here, the more I am led to believe that the real friction is between those who want D/s and those who want B/D, S/M, or T/b. The D/s folks exclude B&D, S&M, and T/b "subs" from the definition of "submissive". The B&D, S&M, and T/b folks use the term more generally. A high percentage of female dominants who post on CM are looking for D/s. A high percentage of male "subs" posting on CM are looking for B&D, S&M, or T/b, and even though they might want some D/s with it, they are not as strongly focused on the D/s as the female dominants want.

The "reality" as I see it: D/s adherents consider the word "submissive" to be exclusively under their domain. Anyone else using that term to describe themselves is being at best unrealistic, or at worst, dishonest. Perhaps others should use the terms "bottom" or "masochist" instead of "submissive", but that doesn't really work, because there are all shades of gray in this realm. A lot of people really are submissive to a certain degree, and to say that they shouldn't use that word because their submission doesn't extend as far as you would like doesn't work very well either.

It's too bad we can't just say what we like and don't like, look for people who match, and don't worry about the rest.

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ORIGINAL: Icarys

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I used the word 'authority' only because I thought you had used it in your original conversation with Queen Rah. I wouldn't have chosen it personally as a word.

That use of the word in that situation still fits my point. I was stating an opinion that what AAkasha was saying and the way she was saying it "sounded" like that's where she was coming from. That's all.

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ORIGINAL: EbonyWood

Don't pull that elitist crap, you'll give your 'Ladies' a bad name<< snip

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ORIGINAL: Icarys

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ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

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ORIGINAL: Icarys

Do you really think that it's any different in reverse? Femdom/sub/slave.. Dom/sub/slave

I do actually, based on what I've witnessed. But that is my perception of things.

- LA

It's no different for one side than it is for the other. There may be varying degrees but we all face the same issues at one time or another.

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ORIGINAL: Icarys

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Ah, perception does cloud reality, does it not?

The more I see here, the more I am led to believe that the real friction is between those who want D/s and those who want B/D, S/M, or T/b. The D/s folks exclude B&D, S&M, and T/b "subs" from the definition of "submissive". The B&D, S&M, and T/b folks use the term more generally. A high percentage of female dominants who post on CM are looking for D/s. A high percentage of male "subs" posting on CM are looking for B&D, S&M, or T/b, and even though they might want some D/s with it, they are not as strongly focused on the D/s as the female dominants want.

The "reality" as I see it: D/s adherents consider the word "submissive" to be exclusively under their domain. Anyone else using that term to describe themselves is being at best unrealistic, or at worst, dishonest. Perhaps others should use the terms "bottom" or "masochist" instead of "submissive", but that doesn't really work, because there are all shades of gray in this realm. A lot of people really are submissive to a certain degree, and to say that they shouldn't use that word because their submission doesn't extend as far as you would like doesn't work very well either.

It's too bad we can't just say what we like and don't like, look for people who match, and don't worry about the rest.

I think you've made some great observations.

Perception though for me is my reality. It works that way for all of us. Then we also have realities that we all can agree on of course. These are everyday life things that none of us can deny.

So in a sense we all live in three realities.One of our own making. One of the people around us(all be it whether we want to or not) and the one everyone lives in..Perception does have the potential of being clouded by many things but only if we allow it.

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ORIGINAL: MsHValentine

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ORIGINAL: Icarys

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Because it gives men - who may be falsely led by fantasy - a real idea of what the tolerance/passion level is by his target audience. How else is he going to know if his fetish is one that is going to be realistically embraced by women he's trying to attract?

That seems a highly arrogant thing to say. Who are any of you to judge a persons kink as unrealistic..

Who are you to judge the people who judge his kink?

Ridiculous Comeback

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ORIGINAL: Icarys
Who are any of you to judge a persons kink as unrealistic..

She didn't say anything about his fetish being unrealistic. Obviously if he has a fetish, it's real. Her point is whether his fetish is going to be realistically "embraced", not whether it's embraced as realistic.

She did imply it as far as I'm concerned

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ORIGINAL: Icarys

Maybe his target audience is a person that enjoys the same kink he does.

His target audience are Female dominants and the experiences they bring to the table. If they don't share in his kink, it's their right to express this and the reasons why. If he likes brown showers, it's her right to say: "That kink is disgusting." Most wouldn't have a problem with her comment because they also find it disgusting. But if the kink was cd, and she said: "That kink is disgusting." Her comment is now seen as rude or nasty but only because the reader doesn't share the sentiment.

. And for the record..His target is one's who share his kink usually not people who don't like it..It's kinda weird that you'd imply the opposite.

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ORIGINAL: Icarys
It sounds to me like your trying to set yourself up as an authority with a statement like that. That whole OP reeks of it, actually.

Since when do people have to be an "Authority" to answer? It's assumed those contributing to threads aren't official Authorities but her comment was perfectly reasonable because she's the one with the experience and knowledge. Subs coming into this section are asking Female dominants their opinions, so in a sense and within this context, the females are the "'unofficial' authority". If you can't get over your fears about her writing like the "Authority" on the subject, think of her as the "Experienced" on the subject. This might help you along.

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That being the case, Icarys, what is your perception of the number of trolls/wankers/use your term 'here' among the various sections?

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ORIGINAL: Icarys

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That being the case, Icarys, what is your perception of the number of trolls/wankers/use your term 'here' among the various sections?

I personally don't give it much thought. Do you?

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Ok, well here is fundementally why I disagree. I believe that as Dominant men, you have a lot less women wanting to use you as a Dom then we Dommes have men wanting to use us. It's a man/woman thing.

(No it's also a numbers thing)

Also, I believe that when in struggling with submission, women have less hinderances then men. And when trying to assert their dominance, women encounter more resistance then men, simply because of the societal hegemonic discourse on gender roles (might I point out the thread on enforced masculinity in this forum that addressed some of these issues).

I don't think it's any less troublesome for the Male dom counterparts that face societal issues with women who are raised to be independent.

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ORIGINAL: Icarys

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Ok, well here is fundementally why I disagree. I believe that as Dominant men, you have a lot less women wanting to use you as a Dom then we Dommes have men wanting to use us. It's a man/woman thing.

(No it's also a numbers thing)

Also, I believe that when in struggling with submission, women have less hinderances then men. And when trying to assert their dominance, women encounter more resistance then men, simply because of the societal hegemonic discourse on gender roles (might I point out the thread on enforced masculinity in this forum that addressed some of these issues).

I don't think it's any less troublesome for the Male dom counterparts that face societal issues with women who are raised to be independent.

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ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

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ORIGINAL: Icarys

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That being the case, Icarys, what is your perception of the number of trolls/wankers/use your term 'here' among the various sections?

I personally don't give it much thought. Do you?

Icarys, what many woman are trying to get you to see is that this is the reality for Dominant women on the boards, and it is worse over on the CMail side.

If you don't want to give it much thought, that's fine. It doesn't even really have an impact on your life as you apparently aren't a dominant woman nor are you seeking a submissive man. But please, just give us the benefit of the doubt that this is a huge issue for us. Would you do that?

- LA

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Well ok. You have the right to your opinion, but we'll have to agree to disagree because I don't think this debate is going to go anywhere. We both have such differing perception of things.

- LA

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ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

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ORIGINAL: Icarys

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ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

I think her point (correct me if I'm wrong, QueenRah) was that people post in the 'Ask a Mistress' section because they are looking for the opinions of Mistresses. That doesn't at all mean that nobody else is welcome to comment, but it does mean that as QueenRah is a Mistress she is by definition a position of authority in this context-she was responding to a post questioning that.

I don't think she meant to imply that fellas weren't welcome, and I didn't pick up on that vibe when I read her original post.

That is another way of looking at it but she hasn't come back to say one way or another.

I wouldn't go so far as to say "Authority"..Nobody has put anyone in charge nor does anyone have special rights to a truth that the rest do not. It doesn't matter what context a person is in. That word to me means above others or in power in some way or in the know more than others.. Yes she's a dominate but it matters not that she's a female no more than it would matter that I'm a male. I'm sure there are a few exceptions to that rule but everything else to me can be relative to one's own personal views alone and not gender based.

Nowhere did she say she was 'the' authority; she is 'an' authority. That's why you have a message board, so you can get a range of views from across the spectrum. If all the views are weighted on one side, you may be able to assume a consensus. If there is debate then you assess the arguments and explanations.

Nobody is claiming to be 'the' authority on anything here-I can only tell you what I think, and QueenRah can only do the same. But by posting a question on a board whose title is 'Ask a Mistress' the questioner gives her enough authority to give her opinion by nature of the fact that she is a Mistress.

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ORIGINAL: Icarys

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That being the case, Icarys, what is your perception of the number of trolls/wankers/use your term 'here' among the various sections?

I personally don't give it much thought. Do you?

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ORIGINAL: Icarys

So what I'm getting is that you want me to say that because your female that you have special issues that the rest of us don't understand because we are men? Hogwash.

You go on believing that..I'll stick to the real. and steer away from the pity party.

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ORIGINAL: QueenRah

I think I heart you, VaguelyCurious. You hit that nail right on its head - twice, in this instance. No, I don't present myself as "the" authority. There are too many Ladies with far more experience and research than my own. Even they aren't "the authorities," either. But, as you correctly asserted, those of us who identify as Dominant Women are Dominant Women; and so, as this is the "Ask a Mistress" forum, we should know what Mistress thinks, at least, what the Dominant Lady responding thinks.

QR