vincentML
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
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promote the general welfare, The Constitution stipulates to "promote" it - not guarantees it or provides it. They promote it by given a major concession to charitable organizations - tax exempting. It further promotes it by allowing citizens who voluntarily participate in charities to deduct those contributions. That's quite a promotion process.
Agreed, promote does not mean a guarantee. But it does mean a proactive duty by the govt. It seems apparent that with so many outside the private healthcare system, govt has failed in its responsibility.
Privacy is not in the Constitution either but SCOTUS has interpreted it as a right.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
Government is not, and should not act as, a charity. Unlike charitable contributions, taxation is mandatory. As far as those poor souls freezing in Chicago; now as in the entire history of humanity, they will always be people suffering. There are always people who don't give a shit about it, there are always people who contribute time, money, and effort who do care.
We simply do not agree on this. The word "charity" is a red herring. Govt has a proactive responsibility to the welfare of the people. It is part of our social compact. Human rights often dictate unwritten responsibilities.
By your logic that the suffering should depend on the kindness of strangers only, will you please tell me how you justify Federal Disaster relief after Katrina and hurricanes in Florida, fires and mud slides in California, flood relief to millions along the Mississippi River banks, tornadoes in Kansas, etc?
Or is it only the very poor and destitute that do not qualify for govt assistance? Your position seems inconsistent. I would appreciate some clarification.
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ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
The question is, and considering the state of the US economy its one that needs to be answered and dealt with quickly, is how many and how much do you want to allocate to the exceptions; the homeless on the streets, the uninsured, the hungry, the whatever. It's a pragmatic question, do you want to tax, encumber, reallocate, and redistribute from 90% to address issues affecting 10%? A corollary that must me considered. When you do redistribute, do you raise up the 10% to become part of the 90% or do you end up making the ratio 80/20? Finally you have to ask - will you ever get to 0% suffering?
The depressed state of the economy is the result of the housing gamble and the Investors' gamble on bundled mortgages. That is the precise time that Government's responsibility towards the suffering should be increased because charity giving slowed noticeably.
Furthermore, you surely realize that your tax dollars are going to pay for emergency rooms overcrowded with the uninsured and unemployed who have lost their insurance.
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ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
Once a government provides food, shelter, clothing, heat - what personal accountability incentive is there? Although it could be argued that for the past 25 years Congress has had as a goal that all citizens would transfer personal responsibility to relying on the government, and government services. Considering that now 'bail outs' are SOP even at the corporate level; I couldn't argue against that point.
On the contrary, the Clinton Administration acting with the Republican Congress has made it more difficult for people to rely on Govt services i.e. welfare. The obscenity lies in bank bailouts in the trillions, and continuing subsidies for decades to big agriculture and others, earmarks to favored industries, etc, not the few dollars it would take to help the poor. The incentive is the traditionally low level of subsistence assistance surrounded by mega advertising of consumer goods like cars, i-pods, flat screen TVs, etc. You will have to support your assumption with data that people are content with food, shelter, clothing, and heat before I will believe people do not want more for their families than that.
< Message edited by vincentML -- 1/22/2010 9:47:38 AM >
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vML
Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.
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RE: The US congress refuses to represent the people in ... - 
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I'm really baffled every time someone on this site espouses the golden rule. Do you really want to be telling some of the people around here to do to you what they want done to them? 
Health care is not a right,is not in the constitution,as simple as that,if you dont like it go the hell out of the USA. I had plenty of experience for 27 years with socialized,communist/goverment option plan in Europe,do not continue to destroy this great country,is already kneeling,JANKO 
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