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RE: Judging a dominant by their submissive's behavior? - 1/24/2010 7:44:11 PM

NihilusZero

Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

A submissive, no, a slave yes. I say this because for me the difference between a slave and a submissive is that a slave surrenders all free will to their owner, so I would expect that every single thing the slave did was with the owner's consent.

No, no, no, no, no...

We agreed last topic we both were involved in. We're supposed to be disagreeing this time.

(Hadn't even seen this before typing my response!)

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(in reply to Elisabella)

Post #: 21

RE: Judging a dominant by their submissive's behavior? - 1/24/2010 7:46:25 PM

UniqueRaven

Posts: 1237
Joined: 9/30/2009
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline

My behavior as a slave is a reflection upon my Owner, yes. However, typically if he doesn't want me to share my opinion i would be removed from the boards in general, vs. specific instances.

julie

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(in reply to NihilusZero)

Post #: 22

RE: Judging a dominant by their submissive's behavior? - 1/24/2010 7:47:25 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Inflammatory is a lot different than argumentative. There's a conspiracy nut on the boards who eventually always says that the problem, whatever it is, is the fault of Jews. Damned right as a Jew I'm going to call him on his hate speech. And that's argumentative.

Telling someone who is deep in denial about their dom only meeting them during office hours in hotel rooms, and not knowing his last name or where he lives or a home phone number that he is definitely married can be seen as argumentative. Actually it can be inflammatory when they don't want to hear it.

But I see no reason why I shouldn't call a bigot on his bigotry, or be honest about what's going on as I see it.
I wouldn't be with a dominant who expected me to tell a bigot that he's absolutely right. Bigotry is one of my hard limits.

Oh and folks, I've got a kid with a severe mood disorder. These days she's doing great but as little as four years ago you would have looked at her and assumed I was a poor parent. When a kid behaves much younger than their years, there is a problem which you can't see. You can see a kid in a wheelchair or with a guide dog, you can't see mental illness.

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(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 23

RE: Judging a dominant by their submissive's behavior? - 1/24/2010 8:03:36 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

Do you judge a dominant by the behavior of their submissive? If you do; how and why? Is it fair? And if you don’t, what are your reasons?

I believe that is rather narrow data to make any conclusive judgement on. I think to some degree something can be said for the people one associates with or is very close to. But, that is only a piece of the puzzle. If there is enough pieces, maybe a judgement can be made... but there are not always enough pieces.

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An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to Lockit)

Post #: 24

RE: Judging a dominant by their submissive's behavior? - 1/24/2010 8:06:37 PM

ItsAProcess

Posts: 62
Joined: 3/29/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Inflammatory is a lot different than argumentative. There's a conspiracy nut on the boards who eventually always says that the problem, whatever it is, is the fault of Jews. Damned right as a Jew I'm going to call him on his hate speech. And that's argumentative.

Telling someone who is deep in denial about their dom only meeting them during office hours in hotel rooms, and not knowing his last name or where he lives or a home phone number that he is definitely married can be seen as argumentative. Actually it can be inflammatory when they don't want to hear it.

But I see no reason why I shouldn't call a bigot on his bigotry, or be honest about what's going on as I see it.
I wouldn't be with a dominant who expected me to tell a bigot that he's absolutely right. Bigotry is one of my hard limits.

Oh and folks, I've got a kid with a severe mood disorder. These days she's doing great but as little as four years ago you would have looked at her and assumed I was a poor parent. When a kid behaves much younger than their years, there is a problem which you can't see. You can see a kid in a wheelchair or with a guide dog, you can't see mental illness.

Children are one thing. We forgive them their mistakes in the hope that they shall learn before becoming adults.

Anyone with a 'severe mood disorder', who is an adult, should most likely think long, and hard, before engaging in any 'alternative' relationship or sexual proclivity.

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 25

RE: Judging a dominant by their submissive's behavior? - 1/24/2010 8:09:53 PM

MzMia

Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Inflammatory is a lot different than argumentative. There's a conspiracy nut on the boards who eventually always says that the problem, whatever it is, is the fault of Jews. Damned right as a Jew I'm going to call him on his hate speech. And that's argumentative.

Telling someone who is deep in denial about their dom only meeting them during office hours in hotel rooms, and not knowing his last name or where he lives or a home phone number that he is definitely married can be seen as argumentative. Actually it can be inflammatory when they don't want to hear it.

But I see no reason why I shouldn't call a bigot on his bigotry, or be honest about what's going on as I see it.
I wouldn't be with a dominant who expected me to tell a bigot that he's absolutely right. Bigotry is one of my hard limits.

Oh and folks, I've got a kid with a severe mood disorder. These days she's doing great but as little as four years ago you would have looked at her and assumed I was a poor parent. When a kid behaves much younger than their years, there is a problem which you can't see. You can see a kid in a wheelchair or with a guide dog, you can't see mental illness.

Of course you can't.
You can't SEE a lot of things in life.
Which is why I try not to laugh, taunt or ridicule others, especially for sport.
You never know what someone else is going through, or why they are the way that they are.
I work with those with "special needs".
There but by the grace of GOD, go all of us.
A great question would be, "Why are so many people so quick to judge, period"?
I am always amused at how so many in "alternative lifestyles" can be so damn judgemental period.
Irony.

< Message edited by MzMia -- 1/24/2010 8:15:39 PM >

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(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 26

RE: Judging a dominant by their submissive's behavior? - 1/24/2010 8:22:27 PM

ForeverOwned

Posts: 269
Joined: 2/5/2008
Status: offline

i have seen people being run off of here because one period was out of place. This is not good behavior and i feel that if they were happy in their lives with their partner they wouldn't feel the need to act awful.

(in reply to MzMia)

Post #: 27

RE: Judging a dominant by their submissive's behavior? - 1/24/2010 8:35:15 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ForeverOwned

i have seen people being run off of here because one period was out of place. This is not good behavior and i feel that if they were happy in their lives with their partner they wouldn't feel the need to act awful.

I would very much like to be linked to the thread were a poster was run off because of a single period. Repeatedly, I have seen the CM regulars attempt to translate posts and provide helpful answers. I have also seen people request, with varying degrees of tactfulness, that a poster attempt to be more coherent. That is a far cry from chasing after someone with the cyber pitchforks.

One could easily take your point of view and say that if you were happy you wouldn't feel the need to hang around forums where you think people behave themselves so badly and where you think people act awfully because of their unhappiness. Otherwise, why would you surround yourself with such misery?

Understand - I'm not saying you are unhappy. Just using your logic there.

_____________________________

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(in reply to ForeverOwned)

Post #: 28

RE: Judging a dominant by their submissive's behavior? - 1/24/2010 8:41:23 PM

MarcEsadrian

Posts: 852
Joined: 8/24/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit
Do you judge a dominant by the behavior of their submissive? If you do; how and why? Is it fair? And if you don’t, what are your reasons?

No. But let me clarify that. You did specify "submissive". That covers quite a bit of ground—far more than slave (at least in my world).

Would I judge someone based upon the behavior of their slave? Most certainly. It wouldn't be an all-encompassing judgment upon their character as a whole, however. For example, I can enjoy the company of those who are all around interesting personalities, but aren't the greatest parents in the world. If you asked me what my opinion of their parenting would be, I would logically look to the product of that parenting.

Similarly, I believe slaves are direct reflections of their Keepers. It doesn't mean the slave will always be so inwardly, but at least they reflect the preferences of their Master or Mistress to the rest of the world in expression and action to do them honor. To those Masters or Mistresses who do not foster this respect either by choice or ignorance, I would then, by extension, question their stewardship and grasp over the basic fundamentals.

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(in reply to Lockit)

Post #: 29

RE: Judging a dominant by their submissive's behavior? - 1/24/2010 8:56:22 PM

xxblushesxx

Posts: 9318
Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Kentucky
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: ForeverOwned

i have seen people being run off of here because one period was out of place. This is not good behavior and i feel that if they were happy in their lives with their partner they wouldn't feel the need to act awful.

I would very much like to be linked to the thread were a poster was run off because of a single period. Repeatedly, I have seen the CM regulars attempt to translate posts and provide helpful answers. I have also seen people request, with varying degrees of tactfulness, that a poster attempt to be more coherent. .

I would very much like to see that thread as well.

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(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 30

RE: Judging a dominant by their submissive's behavior? - 1/24/2010 10:17:24 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

I judge people by the company they keep, whether vanilla dominant, or submissive. If you are with someone that is an asshole in anyway I will probably assume you are somewhat of an asshole too, unless I find out differently...

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(in reply to Lockit)

Post #: 31

RE: Judging a dominant by their submissive's behavior? - 1/24/2010 10:20:27 PM

ResidentSadist

Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline

~fr
For the same reason I judge the trainer by the dog.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit
Do you judge a dominant by the behavior of their submissive? If you do; how and why? Is it fair? And if you don’t, what are your reasons?

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I give good thread.

(in reply to Lockit)

Post #: 32

RE: Judging a dominant by their submissive's behavior? - 1/24/2010 10:29:34 PM

osf

Posts: 3288
Joined: 10/19/2009
Status: offline

if she is under his control then when is this control loosened and by whom

as for me when i had slaves they acted in a way that reflected well on me and it wasn't really a problem as they wanted to behave as to show me in the best light, in fact i think the may have had more pride in their behavior than i did, which slave wouldn't want others to think she had the best master?

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(in reply to ResidentSadist)

Post #: 33

RE: Judging a dominant by their submissive's behavior? - 1/24/2010 10:40:02 PM

CalifChick

Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline

I do judge others by the company they keep. I dropped out of a group on fet as a co-leader because I didn't like the direction the other leaders had taken the group. I didn't agree with their behavior, and didn't wish to be associated with that behavior.

I don't differentiate between the behavior of a sub and the behavior of a slave. But then again, I don't buy into that whole "a sub retains the right to negotiate on everything". I call that bottoming, not submitting. But that's a can of worms for another day.

Cali

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(in reply to ResidentSadist)

Post #: 34

RE: Judging a dominant by their submissive's behavior? - 1/25/2010 12:29:24 AM

VaguelyCurious

Posts: 5264
Joined: 12/2/2009
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ForeverOwned
When i do the right thing it shows that i have the utmost respect for Him

quote:

If i see a sub doing and acting any way they want, the first thought that comes to my mind is that the Dominant isn't very invested in his partner

I was the person Lockit was talking to, and first off I want to point out quickly that what we were talking about is online behaviour. I get why people judge a D by their s's behaviour at a club, for example. What bothers me are thought processes like the ones above (not picking on you, ForeverOwned-you expressed yourself very clearly and concisely, is all).

What if a dominant doesn't see the internet as an area in which they want to exercise control over a sub? Free speech is important to me-I wouldn't want to curtail any sub in her communications with others, and that includes leaving her with the right to get angry if she feels it's justified (along with trusting that she'll know when it's justified).

And why do people make the jump from 'this sub has free will when interacting with others' to 'this dominant is not invested in her sub'? In order to be 'invested', do I have to stifle them? Obviously I'm not going to tolerate certain forms of behaviour in my direction, but any sub I'm with has submitted to me, not to the entire world.

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(in reply to ForeverOwned)

Post #: 35

RE: Judging a dominant by their submissive's behavior? - 1/25/2010 2:12:38 AM

stella41b

Posts: 4258
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: SW London (UK)
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Do you judge a dominant by the behavior of their submissive? If you do; how and why? Is it fair? And if you don’t, what are your reasons?

I'm going to say yes and no here. It depends.

Part of me here says 'no'. I'm a transgendered female and I'm open about this basically because it's a big enough issue for a lot of people and if that is the case I'd much rather know about it sooner than later. There's a lot of people who just cannot see beyond this issue. I get people who go out of their way to 'out' me in public 'that's a man' or the loud 'Are you a man or a woman?' question, and it got so bad that I actually gave up looking for employment - it's too stressful. But this is just when I am on my own.

When I'm with someone, i.e. in their company nobody bats an eyelid.

Another reason why I say 'no' is that there's always a 'back story'. I write and direct plays and films, in each there's fictional characters and I spend a lot of time working with actors discussing the 'back story'. Who is that character? Why are they in that situation? What relationship does this character have to another character? How did that relationship form? And so on.

This is why I take people, anyone, everyone, purely at face value. Yes the woman telling at her husband or boyfriend in public looks bad, but it could be a bad day, she could have PMS, their relationship could be falling apart, it can be any one of a number of reasons and chances are if I form an opinion based on what I see I could get it wrong.

No scrub the 'yes and no' bit, I've just thought about it more and I'm going to come down on no.

'Judge' is probably too strong, but 'take into account' definitely yes.

I've spent some time in service to a domme as her maid or maidservant, and part of my role is to ensure that she looks good. This doesn't just mean fixing her clothes, hair or make up, but it means being on hand to step in if she messes something up and it also means taking her by the arm, pulling her to one side and letting her know if there's something amiss, she's making a mistake, or there's something that I have seen that she's unaware of and I feel that she needs to be aware of.

I do the same for dominants as a submissive, I do the same for friends as a friend, and the closest of my friends are all those who are never afraid to tell me what they think, to point things out and to give it to me straight.

It doesn't matter whether you're a slave, a submissive, a dominant or just plain vanilla, the fact is is that you're together, you're a unit and you're a team.

And I can let something go once, twice, three times, but you know each time it happens I pay more and more attention. But having already taken it into account my opinion changes so that - in the situation I think Lockit is writing about - a disagreement becomes an argument, then a feud, then a conflict, then a vendetta.

People can make mistakes and have misunderstandings, but not repeatedly, and when it becomes an issue it never reflects well on the owner of that issue.

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(in reply to Lockit)

Post #: 36

RE: Judging a dominant by their submissive's behavior? - 1/25/2010 2:44:29 AM

ranja

Posts: 2111
Joined: 11/1/2007
Status: offline

i don't judge people very quickly at all, i am a bit slow that way and i tend to make excuses for people.

and to me here on the boards it does not really matter if the person talking is sub, slave, Dom or Mistress or switch or whatever, just people with different ideas and temperaments, partners or not

some really rude people might in another thread all at the unexpected sudden come out with a very well thought out polite bit of useful information.

why some people chose certain people to be with is a mystery to me... and i have been baffled by my own choices as well in the past.

(in reply to Lockit)

Post #: 37

RE: Judging a dominant by their submissive's behavior? - 1/25/2010 3:18:40 AM

crazyml

Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Do you judge a dominant by the behavior of their submissive? If you do; how and why? Is it fair? And if you don’t, what are your reasons?

Interesting question.

Personally speaking, I'd say generally "no". Because ultimately I feel that everyone should be responsible for their own actions.

But there are times when, if someone behaves badly it does reflect on the people they're with.

Even in a nilla context - if a friend brings someone I've never met to a party at my place, and that person proceeds to get drunk, vomit on my bed and pick a fight with the cat then I'm likely to hold my freind at least partly responsible for the behaviour of his guest.

In some relationships the Dom does assume responsibility for the actions of their sub, and in those cases I think it's perfectly ok to judge them on the basis of their sub's behaviour - since in part they're inviting that judgement.

But I've seen this taken way too far. Ages ago I was a regular visitor to a chatroom, had lots of friends there - many of whom I'd met in person. This sub, one I'd never spoken too, began "warning" people about me - apparently she'd heard that I was a journalist planning an "expose" of kinky people. This caused great hilarity among the people I'd met in person who knew it to be absurd,. However despite being told by three of my friends that this was nonsense she continued to spread the rumour. When I confronted her she said that her dom had complete control of her and that she was not responsible for her actions. Now that is absurd....

(in reply to Lockit)

Post #: 38

RE: Judging a dominant by their submissive's behavior? - 1/25/2010 3:36:26 AM

BKSir

Posts: 4037
Joined: 4/8/2008
From: Salt Lake City, UT
Status: offline

That is one of the first things I drum through my pets heads. Even though they are to have a mind and opinions of their own, if they're out with or without me, or around others even at home, everything they say and do is still in representation of, and a direct reflection upon me, and I expect them to behave accordingly. Conversely, if they're out at a club or munch or something and I can't make it, if they say "no" to someone for any reason, then it also must follow that, as a representation of me, that I am saying "no". I've very rarely ever been disappointed with the results when my pets understand this.

EDIT: to clarify... I make sure that they, at the same time, realize that they are fully responsible for their own actions at all times, unless I'm standing next to them, giving them a direct order right then and there. If he's around people, he has choices, A: make themselves look bad, B: make me look bad, and C: have absolute hell to pay, and not in the good way. OR A: impress others with a young man (one of them damn kids nowadays) with actual manners and class, B: please me and make me proud of his behavior, and C: most likely receive some kind of positive reinforcement, whether he knows it or not. But, that's entirely his choice. Also, if I'm not there, they know damn well that whatever they do, word will get back to me about it, good or bad.

I consider it thusly. Let's say I have a butler or valet. If he were to make a bad impression, then those dealing with him would have a bad impression of me, after all, "What kind of crass lout would have a butler who serves tea with his thumb in the cup? He must be terribly lazy and lax to not notice such a behavior in his help. Shameful."

< Message edited by BKSir -- 1/25/2010 3:47:53 AM >

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(in reply to crazyml)

Post #: 39

RE: Judging a dominant by their submissive's behavior? - 1/25/2010 3:41:02 AM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

I was talking with someone tonight and mentioned that I would have a problem with a submissive being inflammatory or argumentative on the boards. This person didn’t feel it would be a problem for them as they wouldn’t care to control someone in that way and shared their thoughts. I responded that sometimes a dominant is judged by the behavior of their submissive. That prompted a question as to why or how that is. I thought it was a good question for the boards because we could get a lot of answer’s and since she is going to bed… it was up to me. lol

Do you judge a dominant by the behavior of their submissive? If you do; how and why? Is it fair? And if you don’t, what are your reasons?

I absolutely do!

I also judge a submissive or slave by their dominant/Master/Mistress's behaviour. I judge the little old lady down the road by her husband of 50 years behaviour and him by hers. I judge a dog owner on their dog's behaviour. A college girl on her boyfriend's behaviour, etc etc etc...

If a person chooses the company of another, they are in essence saying they find that person and their behaviour acceptable, admirable even.

I do not spend time with people who's behaviour I find unacceptable. If I am forced to, through work or some other obligation, I will eventually find a way to terminate that obligation, change their behaviour, or terminate that person.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Lockit)

Post #: 40

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