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RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... - 3/25/2006 1:24:01 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
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From: Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelGA

i already know the meaning of life...IT ENDS 


If the meaning of life is that it ends, then perhaps you should concentrate your efforts on discovering the purpose of life. In any event, that, too, is internal.

Celeste

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RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... - 3/25/2006 1:57:46 PM   
MHOO314


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Status: offline 		I love that response cinful!

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RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... - 3/25/2006 1:59:27 PM   
michaelGA


Posts: 1194
Status: offline 		the purpose of life is torment

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RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... - 3/25/2006 1:59:42 PM   
MHOO314


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quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelGA

i already know the meaning of life...IT ENDS 


michael, I disagree, the ending is not the meaning, the ending is the result of having been alive---the meaning is what you did with it while you were alive----huge difference.

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RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... - 3/25/2006 2:13:34 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelGA

the purpose of life is torment


That might be the purpose of your life and if so, it's a pretty sad commentary on your ability to internalize any joy. You are tormented smelling flowers? Gazing up at the sky and trying to make out shapes, animals or what have you out of clouds? You are tormented by a child's delight in a new discovery or by helping out by reading to an older person who can't see well enough to do for themselves? You are tormented by your girlfriend's happiness in being with you? If you can't find anything but torment, that's because you are blinding yourself to what's available. Personally, I've had enough of the pity Michael party.

Red.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... - 3/25/2006 3:20:46 PM   
Saratov


Posts: 1716
Joined: 10/22/2005
Status: offline 		Some believe this is hell and we are paying for past sins before being allowed into "The Kingdom" others that this is purgetory(sp) and we are doing our time while the keepers of the gates (in both places) decide where we are each to go.  AND, that we can be returned here from either place, if mess-up in heaven or, to be given a chance to go there after having done time in hell.

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RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... - 3/25/2006 3:58:41 PM   
goddessdevi


Posts: 9
Joined: 2/10/2006
Status: offline 		I find it sad when you say the purpose of life is torment.  So what if heaven is great. Who says there is a heaven .  Or isn't.  Who cares?  Life doesn't have to be torment. I grew up abused but found happiness.  Beauty in nature , love in song , happiness in what was mine.  Noone could take from me what I didn't give them when it came to beauty love and happiness.  If there is a heaven and it is so great then double my pleasure.  I will find joy on earth and when I am done I will find joy in heaven. Why rush a good thing?

Don't measure life by the breathes we take by my the moments that take our breathe

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RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... - 3/25/2006 4:07:37 PM   
SirKenin


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From: Barrie, ON Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: knees2you

quote:

"Remeber we are not saved by Faith alone!"

But you are supposed to be saved by faith alone.
"Do not listen to Philosopy (reason).. Colosians 2.8


Colossians (~~~~~~~ is spelled this way, by the way.

Chapter2 verse 8 Says and I "quote"

quote:

"See to it that know one takes you captive through
hollow and deceptive philosophy,
which depends on human tradition and the basic principles
of this world rather then on Christ." End Quote

quote:


"Yes God Said It!"


Sincerely, Ant


Actually, this verse does not back up your point at all.  As a matter of fact it completely contradicts your position.  This verse is addressing the fact that the Jews of that day and age were governing themselves on the ways of their elders, in a path that was destined to lead up to the gospel.  They followed the Law.  However, the problem with that is that the Law was only an intermediate step to the revelation of the Gospel.  The Gospel teaches us that we are no longer under that Law, but rather grace, given to us by having a faith in God and His son.

The Gentiles of the time, on the other hand, were mixing their faith with their own fundamental principals.

Both groups of people tainted their faith.

Your verse is telling us to not be deceived by these ways of thinking, but to rest in the knowledge that we are saved by faith alone.

< Message edited by SirKenin -- 3/25/2006 4:08:36 PM >

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RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... - 3/25/2006 4:16:56 PM   
SirKenin


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Joined: 10/31/2004
From: Barrie, ON Canada
Status: offline 		On the point of the OP...

It sounds to Me this another attention seeking effort that requires an increase in his medication.  He did tell us he suffered from depression, and perhaps he just needs encouragement to get the help he needs, as opposed to arguing logistics which is probably in this mental state an effort in vain.

Just My opinion of course, but balanced people do not argue rushing themselves to find out what is on the other side now do they.  I have had years of exposure to mental illness and I know that when one is depressed they lose all hope.  We all know this.  I am not too worried about an OP that makes absolutely no sense as much as I am worried that one of us is suffering this way.  This thread sounds like a classic case of a cry for help.  I hope he gets help soon so he will start to feel better about himself and his surroundings.

I for one encourage him to go see his doctor as soon as possible and get the proper medical attention.  Life will look brighter soon enough and he will not be so eager to get himself to the other side.

Good luck to him.

< Message edited by SirKenin -- 3/25/2006 4:18:44 PM >

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RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... - 3/25/2006 4:36:21 PM   
crouchingtigress


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Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline 		You are basically putting a spin on the age old question "Why are we here?"
 
At some point in our evolution every human being asks this great and transformitive question, I applaud you for reaching this point in your development.
 
No one but you knows the answer to your personal question., and answering that question may take the rest of your life, or many life times, to be satisfied.
 
I asked myself that question, and for me it is about learning, evolving, I think every living thing grows and evolves, I think even god grows and evolves, I think it is the nature of all living things, to find circumstances, habbitat, or explanations constricting and endeavor to break those bonds.

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RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... - 3/25/2006 5:24:25 PM   
IrishMist


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quote:

see, now this is just a little sadistic. don't you think? i mean, with all the crap going on in this world and the pending death at the end of the "ride"...why bring more people into this world? why subject someone else to all this crap when it's meaninless? this is just...wrong, isn't it?


Geesh Michael, that's a bit harsh isn't it? I believe that this discussion has been beaten enough ( the oh pity me scenario ) Life is only as good as you want to make it. Death can be feared, or it can be embraced; it all depends on how you want to perceive it. The concepts of heaven and hell are just as subjective as anything else that is based on a 'my belief' situation.

And for those that have children, they are the either the greatest joy, or the greatest regret; again, depending on the person and how they perceive it. I would never give up the chance of bringing my daugher into this world, despite what I perceive to be wrong here. That would be cheating MYSELF from the absolute joy that she brings me on a daily basis.

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RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... - 3/25/2006 6:35:51 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		Some of us have already seen hell on earth.. Ask the drug and abuse workers........ Ask the combat Vets..........

"Yea though I walk through the shadow of the Valley of Death, I shall fear no evil.....
For I am the most evil bastard there!!"


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RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... - 3/25/2006 7:09:33 PM   
michaelGA


Posts: 1194
Status: offline
quote:

On the point of the OP...

It sounds to Me this another attention seeking effort that requires an increase in his medication. He did tell us he suffered from depression, and perhaps he just needs encouragement to get the help he needs, as opposed to arguing logistics which is probably in this mental state an effort in vain.

I for one encourage him to go see his doctor as soon as possible and get the proper medical attention. Life will look brighter soon enough and he will not be so eager to get himself to the other side.


there is no help as these "so-called" experts don't have the slightest clue about things and as for meds...i'm not taking any because they are like eating candy...they're placebos to me after 3 months.


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RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... - 3/25/2006 7:23:31 PM   
LostLenore


Posts: 35
Joined: 7/11/2005
Status: offline 		We stay here because most ways of ending our own lives are painful and not foolproof.  Not even masochists want to suffer unduly at their own hands, and unsuccessful suicide has got to be embarrassing or disappointing if you genuinely wanted to die.  To loosely quote Dorothy Parker, who did eventually succeed in killing herself: 

Gas smells awful,
Nooses give,
Razors pain you,
Might as well live.

Suicide is not the "sin" in every culture that Judeo-Christians think it to be.  Japan has more suicides per capita than the U.S.  Work and life stress may be higher on such a busy, crowded island, but traditional views of suicide being noble under some circumstances (kamikaze and hari kari) may also contribute to its prevalence.

What's the better way?  If people believe killing themselves will cast them into hell, they may be less likely to go through with it.  On the other hand, grieving loved ones of those who succeed at suicide are further tortured by the idea of punishment in the afterlife.  My solution would be to improve conditions on this planet so people don't mind staying here.  When religions focus on the next world instead of dealing with any of the myriad of problems on this one, they do a disservice to everyone struggling to survive.  Heaven may or may not exist, but we all know the reality around us could use some improvement.

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RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... - 3/25/2006 7:28:09 PM   
JohnWarren


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Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

Some of us have already seen hell on earth.. Ask the drug and abuse workers........ Ask the combat Vets..........

"Yea though I walk through the shadow of the Valley of Death, I shall fear no evil.....
For I am the most evil bastard there!!"



And those of us who aren't sure if we've really seen hell, have looked into the eyes of those who have.... don't ask

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RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... - 3/25/2006 7:33:28 PM   
michaelGA


Posts: 1194
Status: offline 		ok, maybe i should be more clear here...with all this war crap going on, why not just get it all over with and blow up the planet and all go to this glorious place people call heave...not exactly suicide...is it?

it either that or we all just top this dang killing and try to freaking get along...i'm tired of all this warring crap...it's in the paper, it's on TV...it's even on these danged forums.

when is enough enough?

people keep telling me suicide is a sin...well, isn't murder...and the warring countries of the world are the biggest ones of the bunch. which is the greater evil?


< Message edited by michaelGA -- 3/25/2006 7:37:32 PM >

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RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... - 3/25/2006 7:43:22 PM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LostLenore

We stay here because most ways of ending our own lives are painful and not foolproof.  Not even masochists want to suffer unduly at their own hands, and unsuccessful suicide has got to be embarrassing or disappointing if you genuinely wanted to die.  To loosely quote Dorothy Parker, who did eventually succeed in killing herself: 



Actually there are several reliable and not-unpleasant ways to kill oneself.  I recommend the book Final Exit. http://www.finalexit.org/finalframe.html

However, even it isn't comprehensive.  My planned exit should it become necessary is a simple breathing mask connected to an easily available tank of nitrogen gas.   The human body does not detect oxygen.  The gasp reflex is tied to an excess of carbon dioxide in the blood so as long as one is exhaling the carbon dioxide one is quite comfortable and unconsciousness comes rather quickly.

I discovered this one time I was exploring a sunken ship and came up in what I though was a huge air bubble.  What I didn't realize was the oxygen in the air had been trapped by the rusting metal leaving the gas almost pure nitrogen with a few trace elements.  Fortunately I fell into the water, the shock revived me and training got my mouthpiece in place without thinking about it.

Wasn't my time then.

In a world with Alzheimer's disease, paralytic stroke, slow and painful cancer awaiting many of us, it's only common sense to keep an eye on the old "back door."

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RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... - 3/25/2006 10:13:30 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

Some of us have already seen hell on earth.. Ask the drug and abuse workers........ Ask the combat Vets..........

"Yea though I walk through the shadow of the Valley of Death, I shall fear no evil.....
For I am the most evil bastard there!!"



And those of us who aren't sure if we've really seen hell, have looked into the eyes of those who have.... don't ask


Ahmen chinyeh! 

Tyuskinyan wancinyankelo wicasa iyotanyapi
(I am happy to have met you man of honour)

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... - 3/26/2006 1:45:30 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		When I "go", I want my buddies to take me around for a few days, just like "Weekend At Bernie's"......we'll go to the ballgame (just hope they don't do the wave!),  mountain climbing (slow going up, but I'd beat 'em all heading back down), and sky-diving ("mister, you forgot your chute!! oh shit, there he went!!").
~                                ~                           ~                            ~                               ~                    
 
Michael, I don't agree with a whole hell of a lot that you say on these threads, but war does suck. Can't always be avoided though. It's just sad that the human race is so often unwilling to act like it has sense.
 
It's complicated. We're not in Iraq "for oil" as some loopy leftists would have you beleive, and it's not just a case of "here comes the Lone Ranger to save the day" as some super-patriot rightists claim. Nothing is as easy as some would make it seem, and yet, life is a lot harder than it needs to be.
 
Level

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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... - 3/26/2006 2:56:57 AM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline 		...got to love the line about being saved by faith alone..........kill all the people like, fiddle with all the kiddies you like, but faith'll save yer..........
the idea that good works isnt enough to get someone to heaven is just more evidence of religious people using their faith to exclude others.....i am inevitably reminded of Swift's wonderful rhyme...

we are gods chosen few
All others will be damned
there is no room in heaven for you
we can't have heaven crammed

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Profile   Post #: 60
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