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RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... - 3/26/2006 6:40:44 AM

Real0ne

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well its gods way of rewarding you for being a good boy and living a productive life according to gods rules. just like when mom gave you a candy bar for cleaning your room.

if you commit suicide that goes against gods master plan and you are then a bad boy do not pass go.

So as far as god is concerned you have to live and live acording to gods rules to pass go! Then when you finallydie by natural causes all things considered god will reward you with heaven.

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Post #: 61

RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... - 3/26/2006 6:53:43 AM

BrutalAntipathy

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Ahhh, but there are ways out of this life that do not involve suicide. One could simply refuse to take antibiotics or refuse a necessary surgery in order to leave it. After all, if disease is the creation ( and therefore the will ) of a God or Gods, then those that seek to avoid disease are acting against the will of their God(s). How naughty of them to have the audacity to oppose their maker(s) in such a manner.

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Post #: 62

RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... - 3/26/2006 11:20:42 AM

SirKenin

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From: Barrie, ON Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

...got to love the line about being saved by faith alone..........kill all the people like, fiddle with all the kiddies you like, but faith'll save yer..........
the idea that good works isnt enough to get someone to heaven is just more evidence of religious people using their faith to exclude others.....i am inevitably reminded of Swift's wonderful rhyme...

we are gods chosen few
All others will be damned
there is no room in heaven for you
we can't have heaven crammed

It has nothing to do with religious people, it has to do with the Bible that has written it in plain English for all to see. You can not pick and choose your religion. You can not choose to take God and Heaven, yet disregard the Bible. As plainly demonstrated in this thread, the Bible says faith alone.

It is those that are too lazy to believe, that do not want to lose face in front of their friends, that think there is an easier way, who are going to be surprised in the end. All it takes is to read the very few verses presented in this thread, including the one that Ant completely misrepresented, to figure out good works simply do not cut it.

< Message edited by SirKenin -- 3/26/2006 11:21:47 AM >

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Post #: 63

RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... - 3/26/2006 11:32:17 AM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
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From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirKenin

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

...got to love the line about being saved by faith alone..........kill all the people like, fiddle with all the kiddies you like, but faith'll save yer..........
the idea that good works isnt enough to get someone to heaven is just more evidence of religious people using their faith to exclude others.....i am inevitably reminded of Swift's wonderful rhyme...

we are gods chosen few
All others will be damned
there is no room in heaven for you
we can't have heaven crammed

It has nothing to do with religious people, it has to do with the Bible that has written it in plain English for all to see. You can not pick and choose your religion. You can not choose to take God and Heaven, yet disregard the Bible. As plainly demonstrated in this thread, the Bible says faith alone.

It is those that are too lazy to believe, that do not want to lose face in front of their friends, that think there is an easier way, who are going to be surprised in the end. All it takes is to read the very few verses presented in this thread, including the one that Ant completely misrepresented, to figure out good works simply do not cut it.

But, that argument only hold true for those whoare Christian. Don't discount those of other faiths to whom the Bible may be a Holy Book for others yet have their own Holy Book/s and a faith which does not match with the teachings of the Old or New Testiment. I respect your arguments I just dont agree that it applies universally.....

< Message edited by IronBear -- 3/26/2006 11:33:01 AM >

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Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

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Post #: 64

RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... - 3/26/2006 12:32:04 PM

SirKenin

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From: Barrie, ON Canada
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Yes, I would have to agree to that actually. There is nothing to say that I am not completely misguided in My faith, and the Muslims are the ones that have it correct, as one example. It would simply be arrogant to decree that I am right and they are wrong.

For those who are Christian, however, or those that profess to be Christian (87% of the eastern population for both camps or thereabouts), My post will hold up to be accurate.

Thank you for bringing that to My attention. I had not thought of that angle when I posted.

_____________________________

Hi. I don't care. Thanks.

Wicca: Pretending to be an ancient religion since 1956

Catholic Church: Serving up guilt since 107 AD.

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Post #: 65

RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... - 3/26/2006 1:50:51 PM

RiotGirl

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quote:

see, now this is just a little sadistic. don't you think? i mean, with all the crap going on in this world and the pending death at the end of the "ride"...why bring more people into this world? why subject someone else to all this crap when it's meaninless? this is just...wrong, isn't it?

Yeah it could of been wrong if i had planned on it. But i hadnt. It was totally out the blue, at a totally terrible time in life. Really the "wrong" time. God only knows why it couldnt happen at the "right times". Like i said.. granted. As i used to believe it was impossible. So i am lucky. Extremely lucky.

You know and life sucks for the most part. And yeah she'll either turn to dust or go to heaven one day. But that doesnt mean, while she's here she cant have it good. And damn it, i'm gonna make sure she has it good. She's gonna have a damn good life. You know alot of ppl ask "what do you want for your little one" and my answer will always be the same. "For her to be happy" No matter what form that is. If she wants to get an opertaion and become a man, and glue her nose onto the back of her head and go down and live in New Guinea with the pygmies.. then so be it. So long as she is happy. (and of course, i'll be watching to make sure she doesnt get caught up with instant gratification or think the wrong things will make her happy) But only because i already took that path and have lived the fallacies of it. Life CAN be good and for those i love it damn will be.

(in reply to michaelGA)

Post #: 66

RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... - 3/26/2006 3:14:18 PM

ownedgirlie

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my take is...the meaning of life here on earth is LOVE. Our quest for love, our need for love, our relishing in love. To know love is to know happiness. To love oneself, and to love another is your gift. To receive another's love is to receive the greatest gift.

The final lyrics to a great song "Nature Boy" - "The greatest thing you'll ever learn...Is just to love and be loved in return."

Love is what gives us purpose. Love of self, love of people, love of nature, of beauty, of art, of music, of learning....and it goes on. And frankly, i want to be around as long as possible to soak it all in!

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Post #: 67

RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... - 3/26/2006 3:31:42 PM

Level

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

my take is...the meaning of life here on earth is LOVE. Our quest for love, our need for love, our relishing in love. To know love is to know happiness. To love oneself, and to love another is your gift. To receive another's love is to receive the greatest gift.

The final lyrics to a great song "Nature Boy" - "The greatest thing you'll ever learn...Is just to love and be loved in return."

Love is what gives us purpose. Love of self, love of people, love of nature, of beauty, of art, of music, of learning....and it goes on. And frankly, i want to be around as long as possible to soak it all in!

Beautifully said, my friend.

Level

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Post #: 68

RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... - 3/26/2006 4:55:02 PM

IrishMist

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/plucks at the strings on a guitar

"If heaven aint a lot like Dixie, I don't wanna go"

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Post #: 69

RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... - 3/26/2006 4:58:52 PM

Cloudz

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michael dear,

I am having a good time here on Earth...no rushing off for me, I prefer to live in the moment and am too busy enjoying every one to rush off stage yet.

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Enjoy the Journey,
~Cloudz

"Life isn't about how to survive the storm, but how to dance in the rain."

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Post #: 70

RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... - 3/26/2006 7:03:27 PM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirKenin

Yes, I would have to agree to that actually. There is nothing to say that I am not completely misguided in My faith, and the Muslims are the ones that have it correct, as one example. It would simply be arrogant to decree that I am right and they are wrong.

For those who are Christian, however, or those that profess to be Christian (87% of the eastern population for both camps or thereabouts), My post will hold up to be accurate.

Thank you for bringing that to My attention. I had not thought of that angle when I posted.

S'ok, I draw your attention to something and you do the same for me.. co-opperation I heard it called at K-Mart 'tother day,,

< Message edited by IronBear -- 3/26/2006 7:04:01 PM >

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to SirKenin)

Post #: 71

RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... - 3/27/2006 6:06:59 AM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BrutalAntipathy

Ahhh, but there are ways out of this life that do not involve suicide. One could simply refuse to take antibiotics or refuse a necessary surgery in order to leave it. After all, if disease is the creation ( and therefore the will ) of a God or Gods, then those that seek to avoid disease are acting against the will of their God(s). How naughty of them to have the audacity to oppose their maker(s) in such a manner.

suicide by another name is none the less suicide in the eyes of most religions

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to BrutalAntipathy)

Post #: 72

RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... - 3/27/2006 6:20:43 AM

philosophy

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Joined: 2/15/2004
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for the sake of a little accuracy.....

"the Bible that has written it in plain English for all to see."

well only since King James commissioned an english language bible, the recent semantic arguments over whether the original text says thou shalt not kill or is it murder is a good example of how the language changes meanings.

"You can not pick and choose your religion."

since when? surely many people convert to a given religion......surely there's an element of choice there.....and as a sideline i wonder whether you consider the afghani convert to christianity in the news as having made a valid choice....

"It is those that are too lazy to believe"

i resent the implication that i am lazy because i choose to believe facts as opposed to articles of faith. i could argue that faith is lazy because it means people can stop wondering about the nature of things, but that'd be rude so i wont.....

"All it takes is to read the very few verses presented in this thread, including the one that Ant completely misrepresented, to figure out good works simply do not cut it. "

....and this is exactly my point......you believe in a god who wont save those who try to live a good life and care for people.......only a god who says you either wear my colours or fry........not exactly the prince of peace, eh?

(in reply to SirKenin)

Post #: 73

RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... - 3/27/2006 1:24:58 PM

michaelGA

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i could not have said it better myself philosophy

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Post #: 74

RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... - 3/29/2006 11:42:30 AM

BanginPapa

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"Always Walk on the Sunny Side of the Street"

oh...oops...err...I may have accidentally stepped into the wrong forum...

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Post #: 75

RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... - 3/30/2006 8:29:12 AM

philosophy

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always walk on the sunny side of the street actually seems very sensible to me :) ........well unless you're allergic to sunlight or a vampire or sommat......

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Post #: 76

RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... - 3/30/2006 12:13:25 PM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

always walk on the sunny side of the street actually seems very sensible to me :) ........well unless you're allergic to sunlight or a vampire or sommat......

darkness or deep shade is best.. harder to acquire as a target, yet easier to acquire a target. Darkness is my friend...

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to philosophy)

Post #: 77

RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... - 3/30/2006 2:14:23 PM

philosophy

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......damn, knew i was forgetting to be paranoid enough..........

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Post #: 78

RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... - 3/30/2006 4:32:06 PM

Vancouver_cinful

Posts: 1911
Joined: 2/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelGA
people keep telling me suicide is a sin...well, isn't murder...and the warring countries of the world are the biggest ones of the bunch. which is the greater evil?

I stand with you on this. If I let myself focus on this one aspect of life on earth, then yes, I want to leave it too. But, in my eyes, there is so much that is wonderful about the world, and so many reasons to try to hang in there one more day.

So instead of focusing on the wars and tragedies, I try my best to bring as much peace and love into the world as I can. It may not seem like a lot, but a smile to a stranger, a door held open...These things are accumulative...and they boomerang back.

(That's what my mom taught me, and she's never wrong!)

Cin

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Post #: 79

RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... - 3/30/2006 4:39:15 PM

Vancouver_cinful

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Joined: 2/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: BrutalAntipathy

Ahhh, but there are ways out of this life that do not involve suicide. One could simply refuse to take antibiotics or refuse a necessary surgery in order to leave it. After all, if disease is the creation ( and therefore the will ) of a God or Gods, then those that seek to avoid disease are acting against the will of their God(s). How naughty of them to have the audacity to oppose their maker(s) in such a manner.

suicide by another name is none the less suicide in the eyes of most religions

Ahhh, but to my sister who is a Jehovah's Witness, receiving a blood transfusion is a sin. If it means death to do so, then that is Jehovah's wish.

There is no universal truth, I guess.

Cin

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quote:

My Karma Account is huge, but I just can't seem to make a withdrawal!!

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Post #: 80

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