If Heaven's Such A Great Place...

If Heaven's Such A Great Place... (Full Version)

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michaelGA -> If Heaven's Such A Great Place... (3/24/2006 6:18:24 PM)
the other day, i was walking around the shopping center where my gf and i work, minding my own business and doing some window shopping when some strange woman pulled up next to me and asked me if i was SAVED. i told her "no, and i' not interested either" she went on and on with the usual religious rhetoric, trying to convert me. this got me to thinking (not in the way most people would have) so here i am, posting my question to everyone out there to see what answers might pop up "If heaven's such a great place, what are we waiting for...let's go? i mean, why continue here on this plain of existence? why continue to struggle day in and day out, trying to make ends meet, worrying about terrorism, disease, famine, death? what keeps us here?" (this should be interesting)

MysticFireTopaz -> RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... (3/24/2006 6:38:55 PM)
Reminds Me of a joke I heard a while back.. An 80-ish couple was killed in a car accident. Upon arriving in heaven, St. Peter took them to a beautiful home on a golf course. They said, "This home is so magificent, but how can we afford it?" St. Peter said, "Don't worry, there is no such thing as money in heaven. This home is yours to enjoy." He then led them into the dining room and there was a wonderful spread of food on the table. The couple looked at each other and the wife said, "This food looks great, but we have to watch our weight and cholesterol. Henry also had a heart attack 20 years ago and has had to be very careful about his diet.ever since" St. Peter said, "Don't worry. You're already dead. Calories and cholesterol no longer count here in heaven." Then the husband turned to his wife, glaring, and said, "Darn you, Harriet. If you had not been feeding me all of those bran muffins and other healthy, tasteless crap, I could have died from my heart condition and been here much sooner!"

knees2you -> RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... (3/24/2006 6:47:50 PM)
quote: "If heaven's such a great place, what are we waiting for...let's go? i mean, why continue here on this plain of existence? why continue to struggle day in and day out, trying to make ends meet, worrying about terrorism, disease, famine, death? what keeps us here?" (this should be interesting) "Because He Said So! That's why we don't go!" "Remeber we are not saved by Faith alone!" quote: "Yes I Said It!" Sincerely, Ant[;)]

michaelGA -> RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... (3/24/2006 6:50:49 PM)
interesting evaision of the question at hand

fatherfigure492 -> RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... (3/24/2006 6:53:02 PM)
Ah! but we have to endure all of Gods tortures like good little subbies; because if we take our own lives we automatically go to hell. Or so I have been told. There again, I'm a Dad/Dom and I doubt if either lot would let me look after my girls. In heaven it wouldn't be PC, and in hell I would have the cane snatched out of my hand by an over zealous demon no doubt.... I'll stop where I am and enjoy myself here for a while.

fatherfigure492 -> RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... (3/24/2006 6:59:25 PM)
"Remeber we are not saved by Faith alone!" But you are supposed to be saved by faith alone. "Do not listen to Philosopy (reason).. Colosians 2.8

Angeni -> RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... (3/24/2006 7:00:01 PM)
Well, since I believe that both heaven and hell are of the same realm (liftime) that we now exist within, and that they are of our own making; I see no reason to want to leave this lifetime yet.

michaelGA -> RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... (3/24/2006 8:17:56 PM)
i guess this subject is just too much of a brain-drain for CM...didn't mean to make people think too much.

NakedOnMyChain -> RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... (3/24/2006 8:20:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: michaelGA "If heaven's such a great place, what are we waiting for...let's go? i mean, why continue here on this plain of existence? why continue to struggle day in and day out, trying to make ends meet, worrying about terrorism, disease, famine, death? what keeps us here?" Ah, the things I could say. Seriously, though, I think most of the religions that view heaven as a fluffy white place with winged sexless angels and a gray-bearded man called God sitting on a golden throne also hold the view that suicide is a sin. Earth is seen as our testing place to see if we're worthy to go to heaven, and ending your life early violates that. In my parents' church's cemetery they still observe the practice of burying those who have committed suicide well away from the others. (It's a Roman Catholic cemetery, by the way.) I'll admit I find it a little odd that the ones who claim heaven is such a glorious place believe it's a sin to get there too early.

michaelGA -> RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... (3/24/2006 8:28:14 PM)
i equally find it odd that these same people have the (foolish) believe that, if we don't do as we're told by some unseen entity or else we'll spend eternity in "hell"...but he loves us??? i mean, get real, people. this belief is so passe`

MasterFireMaam -> RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... (3/24/2006 8:42:49 PM)
Life is about learning. We learn things from the people we meet and the situations we experience. There are lessons in everything. In this way, we increase our own personal knowledge while increasing the collective universal knowledge. Each time we contract to come back, we contract to learn knew things or things that we just didn't get before. If you'd really like to go in depth on the subject, I recommned "Sacred Contracts" by Caroline Myss. Here's an exerpt from her website at http://myss.com/sacredcontracts.asp "Sacred Contracts Have you ever wondered what your mission in life is supposed to be? You probably know people who seem to have had their entire life mapped out from the day they were born. You may have envied their sure sense of what they were born to do -- their work, career, marriage, and personal goals. And yet you have probably also wondered whether that was really all there was to it. So have I. The answer I found is that there's much more involved. I believe that each of us is guided by a Sacred Contract that our soul made before we were born. That Contract contains a wide range of agreements regarding all that we are intended to learn in this life. It comprises not merely what kind of work we do but also our key relationships with the people who are to help us learn the lessons we have agreed to work on. Each of those relationships represents an individual Contract that is part of your overall Sacred Contract, and may require you to be in a certain place at a certain time to be with that person. This doesn't mean, of course, that free will plays no role in your Sacred Contract. At any given moment -- or "choice point" -- your Contract may provide you with an opportunity for growth. It can come in the form of a challenge at work, the dissolution of an old relationship or the formation of a new one. As you work with my book "Sacred Contracts," you will keep notes on each of the significant Contracts in your life. I recommend that you keep a notebook or journal for just this purpose. (I've designed a Journal of Inner Dialogue to help you organize all the information you'll accumulate as you review the key relationships in your past and present by answering the many questions in my book.) Your Contract is made up of all these components of your life, yet it can't be reduced to any one of them by itself. One way of viewing your Contract is as your overall relationship to your personal power and spiritual power. It determines how you work with your energy and to whom you give it. Finding and fulfilling your Sacred Contract also depends on how much you are willing to surrender to divine guidance." The book also looks into Archetypes and how we can work with our personal archetypes to better understand ourselves and our contracts. It's extremely interesting, if you like that sort o thing. I do. Fire

NakedOnMyChain -> RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... (3/24/2006 8:43:18 PM)
You may not believe in it, but they have the right to if they like. (Not that you ever said they didn't). You or I may not understand it, but if it helps them get through life, good. We are all trying to get through life the best way we know how, and there are many routes. I will admit, though, that some botch the job when they begin to encroach on others' freedoms. Ok. I didn't mean to turn this into a religious debate. I'm going to bed, dammit. I'm tired and I'm not making any sense.

Gauge -> RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... (3/24/2006 8:49:13 PM)
quote: "If heaven's such a great place, what are we waiting for...let's go? i mean, why continue here on this plain of existence? why continue to struggle day in and day out, trying to make ends meet, worrying about terrorism, disease, famine, death? what keeps us here?" Michael, it is an admirable question that you ask. I do not proclaim to know the answer to it, but I do hold some beliefs that you may find interesting. First of all, I am sure Heaven is a wonderful place... if you believe in the Bible and God. There is really no way to answer your question without getting into religion but almost every religion out there proclaims its own "style" of heaven. The root of your question I would think could be honed down to a simple point that asks, "Do you believe in life after death." I do not think we are put here on earth to be tested by God (I am using God as a general statement, you view it as you see fit). I honestly believe that we are here to help each other. I think along the lines of what I can do to benefit my fellow man. I try to touch other people's lives in a positive way if it is at all possible. It may be a gesture of support for someone going through a tough emotional time, or maybe it is giving someone less fortunate a bag of groceries. I believe in the God of the Bible... I just don't follow any specific religious practices or belong to any church. My spirituality is quite different from those that go to church and it is looked down on by a lot of "good Christian, church going folks." I don't agree with the different doctrines written by man... I am not saying they are wrong, they just aren't for me. I believe we bring meaning to our existence. If people believe in the God of the Bible then they may equate that to doing God's work. As long as you see meaning in your life there are reasons to go on living. If you don't see meaning in your life, perhaps you should try to find some (you being a general term again). I don't know what waits for me after I take my last breath, but when I do take it, I want to know that I have left my mark on others and that I have done the very best I could to do what is right and noble. I know this doesn't answer your question, but I hope it helps.

michaelGA -> RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... (3/24/2006 8:50:21 PM)
but, why bother with living if Heaven's so great....why should we be made to wait? (not that i belief any of this) i was clinically dead twice in my life and not once did i see any bright light, no loved ones telling me it was or wasn't my time...there was only darkness until i was revived. and i don't buy into the "visions of hell" people tend to tell me to explain the lack of any "visions of light"

SirKenin -> RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... (3/24/2006 9:10:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: knees2you quote: "If heaven's such a great place, what are we waiting for...let's go? i mean, why continue here on this plain of existence? why continue to struggle day in and day out, trying to make ends meet, worrying about terrorism, disease, famine, death? what keeps us here?" (this should be interesting) "Because He Said So! That's why we don't go!" "Remeber we are not saved by Faith alone!" quote: "Yes I Said It!" Sincerely, Ant[;)] Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the Law (Romans 3:20 - That rules out the good works will get you to heaven philosophy that some sects of the Catholic church have) Romans 3:21 to 31 in fact tells us that the "righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe." (3:22a) You are saved by faith alone, and not by works.

BitaTruble -> RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... (3/24/2006 9:44:54 PM)
quote: "If heaven's such a great place, what are we waiting for...let's go? i mean, why continue here on this plain of existence? why continue to struggle day in and day out, trying to make ends meet, worrying about terrorism, disease, famine, death? what keeps us here?" I'm here for the experience of living, to use each of my senses to their fullest potential, to gain understanding, to share what I've learned and to be joyous in having this state of being. It's finite and ends soon enough without my determination to end it on my own. Celeste

IronBear -> RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... (3/24/2006 10:13:11 PM)
Whilst I could and in the past have done discussed this a great length from a Pagan perspective, I'm reasonably sure that it will bore the pants off most here. So I'll go to plan "B". So far I've been taken to hospital with less than 24 hours to live five times. Now I'll never claim to be a particularly good man. In fact I'll stand up and agree that those who say I'm probably the most evil bastard in Australia are possibly correct. I'm hounurable, loyal, trustworthy, have a strong sence of duty.... I also am A-moral, have all the skills and abilities to be an expert in surviving combat and doing max dammage to my enemies. I also have a certain perpensity for "wet" opps, the more neferioous the better. On my five attempts to enter Heaven, I was rejected with the look of absolute horror on the faces of the keepers of the pearly gates.. On my subsequent five attempts to enter the portals of Hell, I was rejected with a look of cowering fear on the faces of those there. I was informed that my place was on earth with all other Goreans! In both cases they knew that I would turn Heaven into an RnR center for Gorean Lifestylers five minutes after I invaded and conquored Hell. "Believe it....... OR ........Believe it not! You may ask Mt Ripley the truth of it..

knees2you -> RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... (3/24/2006 10:35:36 PM)
quote: "Remeber we are not saved by Faith alone!" But you are supposed to be saved by faith alone. "Do not listen to Philosopy (reason).. Colosians 2.8 Colossians (~~~~~~~ is spelled this way, by the way. Chapter2 verse 8 Says and I "quote" quote: "See to it that know one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather then on Christ." End Quote quote: "Yes God Said It!" Sincerely, Ant[;)]

xxblushesxx -> RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... (3/24/2006 10:45:26 PM)
Why bother with education if real life is so great? I believe we are all here to teach and to learn. The amazing part (to me) is...who teaches whom? Sometimes it seems the ones we learn the most from are the ones we put the least stock in to begin with... This is life university 101... I'm happy to be learning with ya'll...

Craftsman -> RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... (3/24/2006 10:52:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: knees2you quote: "Remeber we are not saved by Faith alone!" But you are supposed to be saved by faith alone. "Do not listen to Philosopy (reason).. Colosians 2.8 Colossians (~~~~~~~ is spelled this way, by the way. Chapter2 verse 8 Says and I "quote" quote: "See to it that know one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather then on Christ." End Quote quote: "Yes God Said It!" Sincerely, Ant[;)] My KJV renders it this way: "8: Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. " This seems to indicated that the writer refers to the misapplication of philosophy, as evidenced by the 'vain deceit' that follows. Then again, that is merely an interpretation on my part.

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