Dominating with impunity (Full Version)

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lally2 -> Dominating with impunity (1/25/2010 12:34:20 PM)

most of my relationships have been with men where impunity seems to be prevalent (im not complaining) but as a sub it is an alien concept to me. i cannot and do not act with impunity - my actions, thoughts, needs are always tempered by the process of consideration on how they might impinge.

is impunity a personality trait do you think, or is it acquired, offset by the Ds or Ms dynamic where Youre requirements outweigh the argument.

we all agree, pretty much, the final decision is Youres - and im sure people will say that they measure up the consequences before an action takes place, but i would argue that isnt always the case (from my experience at least)

do You even consider it impunity, does it occur to you that it is or do you simply expect, insist and think no further on it and give it no such title.

sometimes the Dominant act is serving youre desire at the time and isnt always about keeping youre submissive happy or ticking along. sometimes what you want, expect is something she might not like atall. is that impunity.

im curious as to what you think about this.



DominusJ -> RE: Dominating with impunity (1/25/2010 1:31:08 PM)

Hi lally,
to get a clear answer to your question you must specify what do you consider "impunity" and if by "men" your are referring to Doms/Dommes or vanillas.
If by impunity you mean break some rules that you both consent to, then ofc there should be consequences, but always within the boundaries of the same rules.
I can't think of a dominant personality with a trend to impunity, when the submissive part of the relation is not ok with it.
Since, in my opinion, someone is born dominant and even though you can always become better (as in all aspects of life) you can't learn to be dominant if you don't have it. The same goes for impunity. D/s or M/s dynamic can adjust the existence or the level of impunity, but cannot alter the personality of a person.



osf -> RE: Dominating with impunity (1/25/2010 2:46:31 PM)

something i wrote along this line



You got this brand new pornographic women toy, and she’s willing to make your most nasty erotic fantasy a reality, you know the one that has been developing in you head for ever so long,

now is your big chance to make it reality, you put in a lot of effort to arrange it and the big moment arrives and lo and behold the bitch does it to perfection, couldn’t have gone better.

Now it’s the next day and you’re having second thoughts about what happened and her, now neither seem so desirable anymore.

Now what?

Didn’t think of that did you?



DesFIP -> RE: Dominating with impunity (1/25/2010 3:00:36 PM)

I don't think there can be true impunity, meaning no bad reaction to his actions. If he acts badly enough, you would walk.
Somebody who thinks he's exempt from any kind of response is someone too arrogant for me to deal with to begin with.
Do you tend to confuse arrogance with confidence that you are frequently attracted to men like this?

But no, we're very much responsive to each other. So if he did something that made me tremendously sad, he wouldn't be able to shrug it off and say he didn't care about me or my mood. It does affect him. Me being saddened by him would make him unhappy.



littlewonder -> RE: Dominating with impunity (1/25/2010 3:32:51 PM)

I don't think Master ever acts with impunity. He is always thinking of the consequences of his actions and what the outcomes will be. I find that makes him the type of man that I love.

He may be doing whatever he desires but he's also always aware of the outcomes from doing so.

Imo it's one of the large reasons I find him such a dominant personality.



KnightofMists -> RE: Dominating with impunity (1/25/2010 3:58:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

most of my relationships have been with men where impunity seems to be prevalent (im not complaining) but as a sub it is an alien concept to me. i cannot and do not act with impunity - my actions, thoughts, needs are always tempered by the process of consideration on how they might impinge.




I suspect this is a case of perspective! It might be that appear that their decisiveness and/or apparent lack of concern in cases where you would be concerned is causing you to see impunity when it's far from the case.

My process of consideration for my choices will vary greatly depending on the importance I place on the decision itself and the consequences of such decision. But my decisiveness shouldn't be confused with impunity... something my girls very wisely understand and appreciate




DarkSteven -> RE: Dominating with impunity (1/25/2010 5:16:04 PM)

I don't act like that.  When I act, I have to consider the effect on my sub.



tsatske -> RE: Dominating with impunity (1/25/2010 5:24:56 PM)

Strangely, I think as a slave, I have far more impunity than a Master. If he has accepted responsibilty for ownership of me, the buck stops with him. I can do what I'm told, and if it turns out not the way he hoped, i was only following commands. He must give thought to what the effect will be on his property. As one former Master was very fond of saying, 'broken toys are no fun'



leadership527 -> RE: Dominating with impunity (1/25/2010 8:53:06 PM)

I'm not entirely sure you are using the word "impunity" correctly, but as I get your drift, I see absolutely no relationship between impunity and dominance. Dominance means that I have the desire and ability to impose my vision onto the rest of reality. Specifically, in regards my marriage, it means I can impose my vision on Carol. But that says nothing about where I got the vision from. And yes, a significant part of my vision is based upon Carol... you know.. the other half of the relationship.



PrimalConsonance -> RE: Dominating with impunity (1/25/2010 9:29:15 PM)

I feel it's important to remember that there is responsibility with power.  And if that is the case, then domination with impunity would rub me the wrong way.  I consider my actions and acts before I do them usually, we are not without mistakes.  But generally, I would say to be responsible, is to be considerate and think of the results of  your actions towards your submissive.    



SailingBum -> RE: Dominating with impunity (1/25/2010 9:42:56 PM)

Hey lally,

I know what your talking about and you used the word correctly.  I think it's a personality flaw.  Ya know some ppl keep chasing the wrong sort of folks.  So it would appear to that person that it is a "dominant trait", when in fact it is a undesirable characteristic in a person. 

Drop me a note if you would like me to expand on this thought.

BadOne



Kana -> RE: Dominating with impunity (1/25/2010 10:10:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

something i wrote along this line



You got this brand new pornographic women toy, and she’s willing to make your most nasty erotic fantasy a reality, you know the one that has been developing in you head for ever so long,

now is your big chance to make it reality, you put in a lot of effort to arrange it and the big moment arrives and lo and behold the bitch does it to perfection, couldn’t have gone better.

Now it’s the next day and you’re having second thoughts about what happened and her, now neither seem so desirable anymore.

Now what?

Didn’t think of that did you?


Uhh, dude-there's a name for that thing you're describing-it's called a slave.
Seriously, why have a slave unless you can fulfill those incredible fantasies? I own her. She obeys. that includes sexually, as in, as I desire.
There's enough fish in the sea. If your fantasy is slamming frozen sardines in a Inuits ass while beating her with a pirogi as she cockle-doodledoo's the Star Spangled Banner, I balls out guarantee you somewhere on this sight some soon to be lucky lady lusts to be taken in such a fashion
The girls I interact with know exactly what I like before walking through that creepy dark dungeon door (AKA the mundane entrance to my pastel colored house). I have no secrets. They know all my twisted fantasies (Isn't it just dumb to lie to a slave-I mean shit, she's property, it's like lying to a doorknob or a cabinet or my cat) and are well aware of what actions I expect them to undertake and where my limits are. We do this crazy talking thing beforehand.
And as for that last line, yeah,  I did think of that-that's why I didn't do it.



DesFIP -> RE: Dominating with impunity (1/26/2010 4:04:16 AM)

I'm wondering if them acting with impunity is simply because they're sadists and they enjoy doing things that hurt you, physically and emotionally. So their sadism comes to the forefront, before thinking about what the results will be.



crazyml -> RE: Dominating with impunity (1/26/2010 4:47:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

most of my relationships have been with men where impunity seems to be prevalent (im not complaining) but as a sub it is an alien concept to me. i cannot and do not act with impunity - my actions, thoughts, needs are always tempered by the process of consideration on how they might impinge.


I'm sure this class of relationship works for some - But personally (If I'm getting your definition of impunity) I'd equate a relationship where the dom acts towards the sub with impunity, to be more or less one where the dom/me acts towards the sub with disregard for the consequences of his/her actions. For me, personally speaking and without wishing any judgement upon those who may find this class of relationship fulfilling, I'd classify this as an abusive relationship.

quote:



is impunity a personality trait do you think, or is it acquired, offset by the Ds or Ms dynamic where Youre requirements outweigh the argument.

I don't think that "Impunity" is a personality trait - the recklessness/thoughtlessness that might cause someone to act as you describe certainly are.
quote:


we all agree, pretty much, the final decision is Youres - and im sure people will say that they measure up the consequences before an action takes place, but i would argue that isnt always the case (from my experience at least)


I'm sure it isn't always the case - there are stupid irresponsible people out there who will act without considering the consequences of their actions.

quote:


do You even consider it impunity, does it occur to you that it is or do you simply expect, insist and think no further on it and give it no such title.

sometimes the Dominant act is serving youre desire at the time and isnt always about keeping youre submissive happy or ticking along. sometimes what you want, expect is something she might not like atall. is that impunity.


No it isn't impunity at all.

IMPUNITY
–noun 1. exemption from punishment. 2. immunity from detrimental effects, as of an action.
As per the definition above (from  dictionary .com) impunity implies immunity from consequences. What you're describing is people behaving as if they had impunity, which I think  is a different thing.




lally2 -> RE: Dominating with impunity (1/26/2010 7:26:19 AM)

i love the fact that you all see impunity as alien to the dynamic (as it should be so, certainly) but there are cases where 'suck it up - youre my slave, live with it' is part and parcel of what we do and for the large part i am completely happy with that, its what i buy into totally.

and maybe its me. maybe submitting to anothers will is all about them and not me and so i encourage a degree of impunity to develop. maybe im too easy. [:D] though to be honest, i do walk and i have and its why im not with someone now. impunity seems to have played a large part in past relationships, vanilla and Ds/Ms.

i think DesFip has hit it on the nail. emotional and physical sadism can be pushed too far because they are the D and they are allowed to act in such a way, given the dynamic. it gives them the outlet they need to satisfy them. it seems at times that the fall out is all part of the sadism, the upset satisfys them at a level that a slave will tolerate where anyone else would not. in there is impunity. acting through desire of an outcome that isnt 'good' for the slave and is, therefore good for them.

decisiveness tempered by consideration is not impunity - its responsible consideration of a slave who you know will do anything for you.

i am talking about misuse of power i suppose. as someone said above. knowing you have a willing slave or sub and abusing her willingness by acting in a way that tests her faith and trust and yet does not see it that way at all.

there is a fine line we walk sometimes, not all of the time, but its there. where 'slave' does as she is told and the consequences for her or him pale against the need and desire within the D to extract compliance, acceptance and silence.

is that abuse? - having been on the receiving end so many times now, i have grown very tired of what some men wrap Ds and Ms up to mean for them. an excuse to behave any way they like and get away with it.

as a slave you are expected to suck it up and accept and i have. it isnt in my nature to say 'this is how its gonna be sunshine' - thats not me atall.

when a Dom is hard wired to be a certain way and you have invested time, emotion and effort into the relationship there surely comes a point when valuing what you have does not mean that you are sacrificing a leaning in order to keep youre slave, its about accepting that there is something there she cannot handle and for the good of the relationship it needs to be shelved. but that decision ultimately is his, it cant be any other way. which is where impunity kicks in. if he is not prepared to make that decision for the good of the relationship then he is continuing to act in a way that is, frankly, abusive.

fine line again. the right of the D to expect certain freedoms with their slave, versus abuse. the slave continues to suck it up but inside she's struggling like hell, shes a good slave for doing that, its what she's there for.

i wonder if some guys coming here to Ds and Ms actually do think that the person they are interracting with actually is just some cast iron bitch with no feelings of self worth at all.




crazyml -> RE: Dominating with impunity (1/26/2010 7:58:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

and maybe its me. maybe submitting to anothers will is all about them and not me and so i encourage a degree of impunity to develop. maybe im too easy.

You don't give the impression of being "too easy" (meant in a nice complimentary way - not indended to imply that you're "difficult!"). But... You're effectively allowing them to do these things with impunity...
quote:


[:D] though to be honest, i do walk and i have and its why im not with someone now. impunity seems to have played a large part in past relationships, vanilla and Ds/Ms.

But you don't grant them complete impunity... your walking is a consequence of their overstepping a line...
quote:


--snipped (not because it wasn't good just to save space) --

there is a fine line we walk sometimes, not all of the time, but its there. where 'slave' does as she is told and the consequences for her or him pale against the need and desire within the D to extract compliance, acceptance and silence.

is that abuse? - having been on the receiving end so many times now, i have grown very tired of what some men wrap Ds and Ms up to mean for them. an excuse to behave any way they like and get away with it.


As you say yourself - it's a fine line..

quote:



-- more snippage --

i wonder if some guys coming here to Ds and Ms actually do think that the person they are interracting with actually is just some cast iron bitch with no feelings of self worth at all.

Oh I'm sure that there are quite a few Ds and Ms that come here looking for someone with no feelings of self worth at all... And part of me feels obliged to say "nevermind, it's not my cup of tea but ioff they find a partner and it works then that's ok" and another part of me (one I try not to shout about) thinks "These fuckers are abusers and the people who have so little self worth that they enjoy the abuse might be better getting therapy..."
quote:


im having a bitch, its just getting me down.

Big hug!



lally2 -> RE: Dominating with impunity (1/26/2010 8:03:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml
.

IMPUNITY
–noun 1. exemption from punishment. 2. immunity from detrimental effects, as of an action.
As per the definition above (from  dictionary .com) impunity implies immunity from consequences. What you're describing is people behaving as if they had impunity, which I think  is a different thing.





i am talking about both. people who think they have impunity and act accordingly, which is, in my book, still acting with impunity and those who do not think that what they do or expect from a slave has any bearing on the outcome, its just something she needs to suck up and put up with.

largely i would agree that a slave is there for that purpose but sometimes an action or attitude toward a slave can be detrimental beyond reasonale bounds and to expect to be able to continue behaving in that way, just because they want to, and expect no fall out or repurcussion is acting with impunity.

the trouble is a slave is hard wired to accept and submit and not to question or resist her Master. the trouble with that is that so often that can be misused when it is done in the spirit of not caring and getting their jollies from the harm they are causing.

i think im referring largely to emotional sadism (something i find impossible to accept on any level, its just a hard limit for me) but the trouble is that often a sadistic act can be emotionally sadistic too.

but i am relieved and not at all surprised really, that you all reject this emphatically. clearly ive been hobnobbing with bastards all my life [:D]



Mercnbeth -> RE: Dominating with impunity (1/26/2010 10:09:49 AM)

Lally,

I told beth this morning that I've been trying my best not to comment on this thread, but here goes...
quote:

i love the fact that you all see impunity as alien to the dynamic (as it should be so, certainly) but there are cases where 'suck it up - you're my slave, live with it' is part and parcel of what we do and for the large part i am completely happy with that, its what i buy into totally


I'd argue that what you call 'impunity' is dominance. It took every fiber in my body to stop my fingers from typing 'true' in front of that word dominance! Although the words 'right' and 'one true way' or form of dominance were not considered.

Impunity is a consideration function of dominance at the most base level. When you are with a person who agrees to summit to a spanking or any form of physical sensation you are getting implied impunity of repercussions from facilitating that sensation. The disconnect with civil and criminal laws to the contrary considered, between the people involved there is a reasonable expectation of impunity.

quote:

as a slave you are expected to suck it up and accept and i have.

Without getting into the never ending labeling distinction; you've hit upon a very critical distinction of what some people have in mind when they use the labels 'submissive' or 'slave'. Again - not right wrong, bad or better, but a distinction.

A submissive gives limited impunity, defined by what they will do, won't do, how hard, when, where, and how they will submit to sensation delivered by a partner. A slave gives unlimited impunity. It's often at this point that the word trust comes into the discussion. It takes no less or more trust to be involved in either dynamic. In one you are trusting that your partner won't exceed the impunity ground-rules. In the other you are trusting that your partner appreciates and can be responsible for the broader impunity coming as a response to "I am your slave - do with me as you will."

Neither situation requires more or less trust, nor does one situation prevent or cause more relationship conflicts than the other. As a decision coming after a period of honest introspective and self discovery it serves as a personal identity. Now you need to find a partner compatible to that identity. That's the part that usually takes a lot of time.

You would think that I would believe that a Master having a slave coming through the end of this process and having gone through one themselves coming out of the process as a 'dominant' who desired to be a 'Master'; would have total impunity. Unless they are psychopaths - they don't. If they are psychopaths then you end up with one of those dangerous situation for submissives that you reference. However, speaking for myself only and for the sake of discussion qualifying my relationship as an example of this dynamic, have a large degree of empathy for my partners needs. The difference between my sense of 'total impunity' and the impunity I have and take in my relationship is pointed to that feeling of empathy. Good or bad - that's the way I am.

Where's the practical line? I have no idea. I do have a benchmark that I consider each and every day that will tell me if I've stepped over it. I call it the 'look'.

There is a 'look' I get in beth's eye that I see every day. Pragmatically I have the ability to do anything to and with her. I sense and understand what she is feeling, because reciprocally I am sensing and feeling the the same thing. I have, and enjoy inflicting a lot of pain, and involve her in many activities that fall under the heading of intense 'humiliation'. I have made her cry - often. Never have I looked into her eyes, before, during, or after, and not seen that 'look'. I never want to and it is in never wanting to that I define our relationship 'limits'. It's funny that people argue all the time with beth and her 'no limits' representation. Little do they know I have a long and detailed list of them; and how, with 'impunity', I force them upon beth.

I always say its a function of my selfishness. I enjoy what I have, having lived my life prior to meeting beth with partners only willing to assign limited impunity to our physical, emotional, and mental relationship dynamic. I knew I didn't want a 'vacation' or 'time out' or anyone else assigned some impunity for career, or other personal considerations. I wanted it all and never found anyone willing to give it all until meeting beth. Now that I have it, I have no intention of putting it in jeopardy. It is with that consideration that I disconnect from believing I have total impunity.

There is a lot more flesh I could put on this bare bones outline of my perspective of 'dominating with impunity'. However for now, I hope this is enough of my personal perspective to advance the discussion on a great topic.



osf -> RE: Dominating with impunity (1/26/2010 11:27:39 AM)

quote:

i love the fact that you all see impunity as alien to the dynamic (as it should be so, certainly) but there are cases where 'suck it up - youre my slave, live with it' is part and parcel of what we do and for the large part i am completely happy with that, its what i buy into totally.



i love that sentiment as it's mine too, after all the talking is done there comes a time when it has to be done



lally2 -> RE: Dominating with impunity (1/26/2010 3:34:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

dear merc [:)] - im curious why you tried hard not to answer this thread - but of course you dont have to answer that
Lally,

I told beth this morning that I've been trying my best not to comment on this thread, but here goes...
quote:

i love the fact that you all see impunity as alien to the dynamic (as it should be so, certainly) but there are cases where 'suck it up - you're my slave, live with it' is part and parcel of what we do and for the large part i am completely happy with that, its what i buy into totally


I'd argue that what you call 'impunity' is dominance. It took every fiber in my body to stop my fingers from typing 'true' in front of that word dominance! Although the words 'right' and 'one true way' or form of dominance were not considered.

Impunity is a consideration function of dominance at the most base level. When you are with a person who agrees to summit to a spanking or any form of physical sensation you are getting implied impunity of repercussions from facilitating that sensation. The disconnect with civil and criminal laws to the contrary considered, between the people involved there is a reasonable expectation of impunity.

yes - i see that and i understand completely. part of me responds actively to that impunity, when it is done in the spirit or true [:D] dominance (there i said it!!) - when i read that a light went on.

when i wrote last time and walked away from the computer it also occurred to me that i am drawn to that impunity that makes it possible for a Master to be and do as he wishes. the strength of his conviction and desire to do those things to me reinforces my submission. but it is impunity measured by empathy as you put later. it is the freedom of nature to do as you will but with no desire to do such harm to the spirit of the relationship that callous impunity results in.

without the sort of impunity you discuss the relationship would fall toward something altogether more egalitarian - a greater say afforded to the sub and a more circumspect approach - something i have also experienced and did not work for me atall.

therefore i agree, impunity is necessary, but it is an impunity tempered by empathy and not impunity as a self serving right to act without concsience. certainly there is a big part of me that wishes for my Master to be completely free with his will, i would never wish to crimp his style or his desire to use me in whatever way he chooses. in there floats responsibility therefore - to use me, yes, to use me with impunity as a valued thing, yes, to use me to his own ends without caring if i crawl away resenting him, never.

its the resentment and anger that can occur that does so much damage to submission.

quote:

as a slave you are expected to suck it up and accept and i have.

Without getting into the never ending labeling distinction; you've hit upon a very critical distinction of what some people have in mind when they use the labels 'submissive' or 'slave'. Again - not right wrong, bad or better, but a distinction.

A submissive gives limited impunity, defined by what they will do, won't do, how hard, when, where, and how they will submit to sensation delivered by a partner. A slave gives unlimited impunity. It's often at this point that the word trust comes into the discussion. It takes no less or more trust to be involved in either dynamic. In one you are trusting that your partner won't exceed the impunity ground-rules. In the other you are trusting that your partner appreciates and can be responsible for the broader impunity coming as a response to "I am your slave - do with me as you will."

Neither situation requires more or less trust, nor does one situation prevent or cause more relationship conflicts than the other. As a decision coming after a period of honest introspective and self discovery it serves as a personal identity. Now you need to find a partner compatible to that identity. That's the part that usually takes a lot of time.

You would think that I would believe that a Master having a slave coming through the end of this process and having gone through one themselves coming out of the process as a 'dominant' who desired to be a 'Master'; would have total impunity. Unless they are psychopaths - they don't. If they are psychopaths then you end up with one of those dangerous situation for submissives that you reference. However, speaking for myself only and for the sake of discussion qualifying my relationship as an example of this dynamic, have a large degree of empathy for my partners needs. The difference between my sense of 'total impunity' and the impunity I have and take in my relationship is pointed to that feeling of empathy. Good or bad - that's the way I am.

to me that is the defining difference. for a Master to have his free will, absolutely, to fly and enjoy and do their thing - absobloodylutely - i wouldnt have it any other way!! - just writing that makes my heart sing - what sucks is giving someone that freedom to be absolutely who they are and want to be and do and have their cake, cover it in cream and eat it all - and have no sliding scale, no grid refferance and no empathy. in that moment it actually almost doesnt matter what you give or dont give, its almost irrelevant - its a cold hard expectation that isnt even about submission in the end. its about giving to a cold heartless git. who needs that!

Where's the practical line? I have no idea. I do have a benchmark that I consider each and every day that will tell me if I've stepped over it. I call it the 'look'.

There is a 'look' I get in beth's eye that I see every day. Pragmatically I have the ability to do anything to and with her. I sense and understand what she is feeling, because reciprocally I am sensing and feeling the the same thing. I have, and enjoy inflicting a lot of pain, and involve her in many activities that fall under the heading of intense 'humiliation'. I have made her cry - often. Never have I looked into her eyes, before, during, or after, and not seen that 'look'. I never want to and it is in never wanting to that I define our relationship 'limits'. It's funny that people argue all the time with beth and her 'no limits' representation. Little do they know I have a long and detailed list of them; and how, with 'impunity', I force them upon beth.

I always say its a function of my selfishness. I enjoy what I have, having lived my life prior to meeting beth with partners only willing to assign limited impunity to our physical, emotional, and mental relationship dynamic. I knew I didn't want a 'vacation' or 'time out' or anyone else assigned some impunity for career, or other personal considerations. I wanted it all and never found anyone willing to give it all until meeting beth. Now that I have it, I have no intention of putting it in jeopardy. It is with that consideration that I disconnect from believing I have total impunity.

There is a lot more flesh I could put on this bare bones outline of my perspective of 'dominating with impunity'. However for now, I hope this is enough of my personal perspective to advance the discussion on a great topic.

i look forward to the day when i can say i have no limits with my Master because he has no wish to jeopardise the absolute freedom that he has with me.

having absolute freedom to be ourselves is what we all seek, to express whatever level of control and submission we wish for. as you say there is no absolute impunity though, there cannot be. there can be impunity when its tempered with empathy, yes, i agree with that totally. its a rich cocktail for some perhaps too rich and intoxicating for some to adequately manage.



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