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ORIGINAL: lally2

most of my relationships have been with men where impunity seems to be prevalent (im not complaining) but as a sub it is an alien concept to me. i cannot and do not act with impunity - my actions, thoughts, needs are always tempered by the process of consideration on how they might impinge.

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ORIGINAL: osf

something i wrote along this line



You got this brand new pornographic women toy, and she’s willing to make your most nasty erotic fantasy a reality, you know the one that has been developing in you head for ever so long,

now is your big chance to make it reality, you put in a lot of effort to arrange it and the big moment arrives and lo and behold the bitch does it to perfection, couldn’t have gone better.

Now it’s the next day and you’re having second thoughts about what happened and her, now neither seem so desirable anymore.

Now what?

Didn’t think of that did you?

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

most of my relationships have been with men where impunity seems to be prevalent (im not complaining) but as a sub it is an alien concept to me. i cannot and do not act with impunity - my actions, thoughts, needs are always tempered by the process of consideration on how they might impinge.

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is impunity a personality trait do you think, or is it acquired, offset by the Ds or Ms dynamic where Youre requirements outweigh the argument.

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we all agree, pretty much, the final decision is Youres - and im sure people will say that they measure up the consequences before an action takes place, but i would argue that isnt always the case (from my experience at least)

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do You even consider it impunity, does it occur to you that it is or do you simply expect, insist and think no further on it and give it no such title.

sometimes the Dominant act is serving youre desire at the time and isnt always about keeping youre submissive happy or ticking along. sometimes what you want, expect is something she might not like atall. is that impunity.

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ORIGINAL: lally2

and maybe its me. maybe submitting to anothers will is all about them and not me and so i encourage a degree of impunity to develop. maybe im too easy.

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though to be honest, i do walk and i have and its why im not with someone now. impunity seems to have played a large part in past relationships, vanilla and Ds/Ms.

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--snipped (not because it wasn't good just to save space) --

there is a fine line we walk sometimes, not all of the time, but its there. where 'slave' does as she is told and the consequences for her or him pale against the need and desire within the D to extract compliance, acceptance and silence.

is that abuse? - having been on the receiving end so many times now, i have grown very tired of what some men wrap Ds and Ms up to mean for them. an excuse to behave any way they like and get away with it.

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-- more snippage --

i wonder if some guys coming here to Ds and Ms actually do think that the person they are interracting with actually is just some cast iron bitch with no feelings of self worth at all.

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im having a bitch, its just getting me down.

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ORIGINAL: crazyml
.

IMPUNITY
–noun 1. exemption from punishment. 2. immunity from detrimental effects, as of an action.
As per the definition above (from  dictionary .com) impunity implies immunity from consequences. What you're describing is people behaving as if they had impunity, which I think  is a different thing.

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i love the fact that you all see impunity as alien to the dynamic (as it should be so, certainly) but there are cases where 'suck it up - you're my slave, live with it' is part and parcel of what we do and for the large part i am completely happy with that, its what i buy into totally

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as a slave you are expected to suck it up and accept and i have.

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i love the fact that you all see impunity as alien to the dynamic (as it should be so, certainly) but there are cases where 'suck it up - youre my slave, live with it' is part and parcel of what we do and for the large part i am completely happy with that, its what i buy into totally.

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ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

dear merc - im curious why you tried hard not to answer this thread - but of course you dont have to answer that
Lally,

I told beth this morning that I've been trying my best not to comment on this thread, but here goes...

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i love the fact that you all see impunity as alien to the dynamic (as it should be so, certainly) but there are cases where 'suck it up - you're my slave, live with it' is part and parcel of what we do and for the large part i am completely happy with that, its what i buy into totally

I'd argue that what you call 'impunity' is dominance. It took every fiber in my body to stop my fingers from typing 'true' in front of that word dominance! Although the words 'right' and 'one true way' or form of dominance were not considered.

Impunity is a consideration function of dominance at the most base level. When you are with a person who agrees to summit to a spanking or any form of physical sensation you are getting implied impunity of repercussions from facilitating that sensation. The disconnect with civil and criminal laws to the contrary considered, between the people involved there is a reasonable expectation of impunity.

yes - i see that and i understand completely. part of me responds actively to that impunity, when it is done in the spirit or true dominance (there i said it!!) - when i read that a light went on.

when i wrote last time and walked away from the computer it also occurred to me that i am drawn to that impunity that makes it possible for a Master to be and do as he wishes. the strength of his conviction and desire to do those things to me reinforces my submission. but it is impunity measured by empathy as you put later. it is the freedom of nature to do as you will but with no desire to do such harm to the spirit of the relationship that callous impunity results in.

without the sort of impunity you discuss the relationship would fall toward something altogether more egalitarian - a greater say afforded to the sub and a more circumspect approach - something i have also experienced and did not work for me atall.

therefore i agree, impunity is necessary, but it is an impunity tempered by empathy and not impunity as a self serving right to act without concsience. certainly there is a big part of me that wishes for my Master to be completely free with his will, i would never wish to crimp his style or his desire to use me in whatever way he chooses. in there floats responsibility therefore - to use me, yes, to use me with impunity as a valued thing, yes, to use me to his own ends without caring if i crawl away resenting him, never.

its the resentment and anger that can occur that does so much damage to submission.

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as a slave you are expected to suck it up and accept and i have.

Without getting into the never ending labeling distinction; you've hit upon a very critical distinction of what some people have in mind when they use the labels 'submissive' or 'slave'. Again - not right wrong, bad or better, but a distinction.

A submissive gives limited impunity, defined by what they will do, won't do, how hard, when, where, and how they will submit to sensation delivered by a partner. A slave gives unlimited impunity. It's often at this point that the word trust comes into the discussion. It takes no less or more trust to be involved in either dynamic. In one you are trusting that your partner won't exceed the impunity ground-rules. In the other you are trusting that your partner appreciates and can be responsible for the broader impunity coming as a response to "I am your slave - do with me as you will."

Neither situation requires more or less trust, nor does one situation prevent or cause more relationship conflicts than the other. As a decision coming after a period of honest introspective and self discovery it serves as a personal identity. Now you need to find a partner compatible to that identity. That's the part that usually takes a lot of time.

You would think that I would believe that a Master having a slave coming through the end of this process and having gone through one themselves coming out of the process as a 'dominant' who desired to be a 'Master'; would have total impunity. Unless they are psychopaths - they don't. If they are psychopaths then you end up with one of those dangerous situation for submissives that you reference. However, speaking for myself only and for the sake of discussion qualifying my relationship as an example of this dynamic, have a large degree of empathy for my partners needs. The difference between my sense of 'total impunity' and the impunity I have and take in my relationship is pointed to that feeling of empathy. Good or bad - that's the way I am.

to me that is the defining difference. for a Master to have his free will, absolutely, to fly and enjoy and do their thing - absobloodylutely - i wouldnt have it any other way!! - just writing that makes my heart sing - what sucks is giving someone that freedom to be absolutely who they are and want to be and do and have their cake, cover it in cream and eat it all - and have no sliding scale, no grid refferance and no empathy. in that moment it actually almost doesnt matter what you give or dont give, its almost irrelevant - its a cold hard expectation that isnt even about submission in the end. its about giving to a cold heartless git. who needs that!

Where's the practical line? I have no idea. I do have a benchmark that I consider each and every day that will tell me if I've stepped over it. I call it the 'look'.

There is a 'look' I get in beth's eye that I see every day. Pragmatically I have the ability to do anything to and with her. I sense and understand what she is feeling, because reciprocally I am sensing and feeling the the same thing. I have, and enjoy inflicting a lot of pain, and involve her in many activities that fall under the heading of intense 'humiliation'. I have made her cry - often. Never have I looked into her eyes, before, during, or after, and not seen that 'look'. I never want to and it is in never wanting to that I define our relationship 'limits'. It's funny that people argue all the time with beth and her 'no limits' representation. Little do they know I have a long and detailed list of them; and how, with 'impunity', I force them upon beth.

I always say its a function of my selfishness. I enjoy what I have, having lived my life prior to meeting beth with partners only willing to assign limited impunity to our physical, emotional, and mental relationship dynamic. I knew I didn't want a 'vacation' or 'time out' or anyone else assigned some impunity for career, or other personal considerations. I wanted it all and never found anyone willing to give it all until meeting beth. Now that I have it, I have no intention of putting it in jeopardy. It is with that consideration that I disconnect from believing I have total impunity.

There is a lot more flesh I could put on this bare bones outline of my perspective of 'dominating with impunity'. However for now, I hope this is enough of my personal perspective to advance the discussion on a great topic.

i look forward to the day when i can say i have no limits with my Master because he has no wish to jeopardise the absolute freedom that he has with me.

having absolute freedom to be ourselves is what we all seek, to express whatever level of control and submission we wish for. as you say there is no absolute impunity though, there cannot be. there can be impunity when its tempered with empathy, yes, i agree with that totally. its a rich cocktail for some perhaps too rich and intoxicating for some to adequately manage.