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RE: Has the world gone completely mad? - 1/27/2010 9:03:46 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		Everyone has their price.Dont blame her because you dont wanna go that high.
If your kink is "specialised, be prepared to pay a leedle extra...




< Message edited by Lucylastic -- 1/27/2010 9:07:14 PM >

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(in reply to pyroaquatic)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Has the world gone completely mad? - 1/27/2010 9:26:59 PM   
kinkbound


Posts: 387
Joined: 9/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: kinkbound

I understand that Dommes may have to deal with wankers. However, in my opinion, providing full identification to a stranger before I even know what she looks like or know her tribute requirements, is beyond absurd.


Define full identification. Is she going to get your home address, where you work and all your phone numbers or she just going to get your name, a picture and that you are who you say you are?


Okay, straight from the horse's mouth:


YOU'RE REQUIRED TO PROVIDE TO THE PROVIDERS the FOLLOWING INFORMATION!


1) Please give them your FIRST and LAST NAME!
Misspelled names, makes checking membership difficult.

2) Give CITY and STATE on your DRIVERS LICENSE OR PHOTO ID
/ NOT where you work.

3) Provide YOUR CONTACT number
(We suggest your cell number, land lines have their draw backs)
This MUST be a number you have registered with us.
You MUST be calling FROM or be able to be called ON your contact number!

Some providers call your CONTACT number,
your ID or MEMBERSHIP number!
(*REMEMBER - IF the spelling of your name,
city and state on your DL or
your CONTACT number
is not what you have registered with RS2K
WE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO VERIFY YOUR MEMBERSHIP


(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Has the world gone completely mad? - 1/27/2010 10:06:27 PM   
kinkbound


Posts: 387
Joined: 9/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

~fr
For the same reasons an escort service client must verify their indenty. For the girl's safety and a cop filter.


I have no argument with a provider's concern for safety or LE. But really, wouldn't you want to see clear photos of the girl first, and know how much $ you're going to need *before* you verify your identity?

Business people get to choose how they want to conduct business. That's fine. And in this case, I've decided not to do business with this woman. That's fine too.

I'm just curious how others view this seemingly upside-down method of doing business, or maybe hear from others who have encountered this themselves.

Is this a rare isolated case, or a growing trend?

< Message edited by kinkbound -- 1/27/2010 10:09:24 PM >

(in reply to ResidentSadist)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Has the world gone completely mad? - 1/27/2010 11:26:55 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

I'm just curious how others view this seemingly upside-down method of doing business, or maybe hear from others who have encountered this themselves.


The title of the thread and the tone seem at odds with this statement....


_____________________________

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Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

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(in reply to kinkbound)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Has the world gone completely mad? - 1/27/2010 11:53:09 PM   
kinkbound


Posts: 387
Joined: 9/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

I'm just curious how others view this seemingly upside-down method of doing business, or maybe hear from others who have encountered this themselves.


The title of the thread and the tone seem at odds with this statement....




Yeah well, when I OP'd, I was more in a WTF state of mind, as I freshly came off receiving the woman's outrageous demand. As the day wore on, emotion gave way to logic.

But I still see it as upside-down, or cart before the horse. It's illogical, just as it would be walking into a car show room, and being forced to produce your full identity prior to seeing the car or the sticker price.

However, this all just doesn't have the full emotional charge that it did many hours prior.

Make sense now?

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Has the world gone completely mad? - 1/28/2010 3:02:27 AM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline 		The procedure you experienced is not a growing trend, it is established tradition for the client seeking intimate adult services to verify whom they are before any form of intimate conversation (or contact) will take place . . . especially concerning money or specifics about services. There are valid legal reasons for this well-established protocol.

When a client phones an escort service, he gets a verbal description not a photo. At the better services, he must provide a verifiable phone number with matching name to the charge card he is using before a girl will be dispatched.

I hope this helps you understand what to expect from your future contacts. Also, you should be aware that pro Dommes that do not practice this procedure, may also be skirting gray areas of the law by mentioning services and fees. If those services are to provide sexual pleasure/release or contact with the client, they are exposing themselves to investigation. In other words, raid bait.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kinkbound

quote:

~fr
For the same reasons an escort service client must verify their indenty. For the girl's safety and a cop filter.


I have no argument with a provider's concern for safety or LE. But really, wouldn't you want to see clear photos of the girl first, and know how much $ you're going to need *before* you verify your identity?

Business people get to choose how they want to conduct business. That's fine. And in this case, I've decided not to do business with this woman. That's fine too.

I'm just curious how others view this seemingly upside-down method of doing business, or maybe hear from others who have encountered this themselves.

Is this a rare isolated case, or a growing trend?



_____________________________

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I give good thread.

(in reply to kinkbound)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Has the world gone completely mad? - 1/28/2010 6:41:48 AM   
MistressTonya2u


Posts: 140
Joined: 12/20/2009
Status: offline 		I do not see it as being illogical at all.
It is not like you are being asked to make a payment before speaking to Her.
You said you have moved on and are not intrested in proceeding with Her, just don't be surprised if you see this again from someone else.


(in reply to ResidentSadist)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Has the world gone completely mad? - 1/28/2010 8:03:20 AM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kinkbound

WE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO VERIFY YOUR MEMBERSHIP




That is what they need to verify you. What will she actually get?

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to kinkbound)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Has the world gone completely mad? - 1/28/2010 8:07:02 AM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kinkbound

I have no argument with a provider's concern for safety or LE. But really, wouldn't you want to see clear photos of the girl first, and know how much $ you're going to need *before* you verify your identity?


I'm sure it would be nice. But, as someone who is considering going into the business herself... I can say that I really don't care and I don't her to either. Since I still don't know how much information she is actually going to get through the service (just because they have to have all that info to be able to say that you are who you say you are doesn't mean they will give her all that information) I still don't see the problem.

At the end of the day, it isn't your neck on the line. It's hers.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to kinkbound)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Has the world gone completely mad? - 1/28/2010 11:53:43 AM   
kinkbound


Posts: 387
Joined: 9/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: kinkbound

WE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO VERIFY YOUR MEMBERSHIP




That is what they need to verify you. What will she actually get?


Well, if I'm correctly understanding what RS2K has quoted as shown in post 42, she gets only the information that I give her, which is:

My correctly spelled first and last name,
The city and state as it appears on my driver's license or state-issued photo ID,
The contact phone number I registered with RS2K, preferably my cell phone number.

She then sends this information to the RS2K, who then either verifies it or rejects it.

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Has the world gone completely mad? - 1/28/2010 12:23:04 PM   
kinkbound


Posts: 387
Joined: 9/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

The procedure you experienced is not a growing trend, it is established tradition for the client seeking intimate adult services to verify whom they are before any form of intimate conversation (or contact) will take place . . . especially concerning money or specifics about services. There are valid legal reasons for this well-established protocol.


Indeed, expressing an offer of cash in exchange for a sexual act or vice-versa is soliciting, of which I clearly understand the need to avoid.

quote:

When a client phones an escort service, he gets a verbal description not a photo. At the better services, he must provide a verifiable phone number with matching name to the charge card he is using before a girl will be dispatched.


This has not been my experience in the past, which is why I became so perplexed when this came up yesterday. However, I admit that I've been out of this game for almost 3 years, and the landscape certainly may have changed in the meantime.

quote:

I hope this helps you understand what to expect from your future contacts. Also, you should be aware that pro Dommes that do not practice this procedure, may also be skirting gray areas of the law by mentioning services and fees. If those services are to provide sexual pleasure/release or contact with the client, they are exposing themselves to investigation. In other words, raid bait.


I'm certainly no student of law, and perhaps laws may even vary from state to state, or may have changed over time. However, some years ago, I had been advised by a family-member attorney that as long as a discussion of a sexual act in exchange for cash never comes up, there's really no legal problem to contend with. The cash donation or tribute is always in exchange for the woman's time, and not for any activites that may ultimately transpire as a result of two consenting adults. And conducting my behavior along these lines will keep both myself and the woman out of trouble.

While I appreciate your time and effort, it's still not clear to me whether the advice I had been given in the past still applies today.








(in reply to ResidentSadist)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Has the world gone completely mad? - 1/28/2010 12:27:09 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kinkbound

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: kinkbound

WE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO VERIFY YOUR MEMBERSHIP




That is what they need to verify you. What will she actually get?


Well, if I'm correctly understanding what RS2K has quoted as shown in post 42, she gets only the information that I give her, which is:

My correctly spelled first and last name,
The city and state as it appears on my driver's license or state-issued photo ID,
The contact phone number I registered with RS2K, preferably my cell phone number.

She then sends this information to the RS2K, who then either verifies it or rejects it.



So what on earth are you complaining about? That's the same basic info you'd give her anyway, if you've already got this service it doesn't cost you anything and if you don't have it's a one-time fee that you can choose to pay or not.

She's not getting your home address, she's not getting where you work, she's not getting a CC number, she's not getting anything that she shouldn't reasonably be asking for!

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to kinkbound)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Has the world gone completely mad? - 1/28/2010 12:36:56 PM   
kinkbound


Posts: 387
Joined: 9/15/2007
Status: offline 		I clearly stated up front that this was not a verification scam, and that it wouldn't cost me another cent to comply.

What I'm complaining about is being required to disclose my ID *prior* to seeing recent photos of the woman and knowing what my investment would be. I've never had to do this in the past. I personally think this is completely upside-down, and felt curious as to whether I'm dealing with a new trend.   

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Has the world gone completely mad? - 1/28/2010 12:57:36 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline 		A few points.

1. The crap-to-client ratio for prodommes on this site is horrendous.  It shouldn't be a surprise that some women have started using outlandish-seeming filters to thin the crowds marauding their inboxes.  Frankly, kinkbound, you'd be better served looking at Eros or MaxFisch.

2. I concur with ResidentSadist that this is a longstanding policy of many establishments.  However, I do believe there has been a significant increase over the last few years in requiring full names ASAP.  The courts loosened the rules on how police officers can represent themselves in sting operations, and longtime "safe zones" like New York City have been closing professional dungeons.  So pros are running more risks than they were ten years ago.

3. Did you have any exterior evidence that this prodomme was actually female?  A link to her web site?  If no, what intrigued you enough to write her in the first place?  I've heard there are actually people on the internet who sometimes scam other people.  Again, I wouldn't be in a big hurry to make a professional connection off this site.

4. Finally, for actual dating -- I've found it a very good policy to give my name and contact info very quickly.  What do I care if the woman "isn't serious" or "isn't real?"  It dispels a lot of fears in her if I am forthcoming and not game-playing.  Plus, she's a lot more likely to be forthright about herself.  I can't see how things would be that much different when talking with a prodomme for the first time.  She'll feel more at ease if you're open and direct.


_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to kinkbound)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Has the world gone completely mad? - 1/28/2010 1:41:33 PM   
kinkbound


Posts: 387
Joined: 9/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

1. The crap-to-client ratio for prodommes on this site is horrendous.  It shouldn't be a surprise that some women have started using outlandish-seeming filters to thin the crowds marauding their inboxes.  Frankly, kinkbound, you'd be better served looking at Eros or MaxFisch.



Thanks for the leads. I'll have a look.

quote:

2. I concur with ResidentSadist that this is a longstanding policy of many establishments.  However, I do believe there has been a significant increase over the last few years in requiring full names ASAP.  The courts loosened the rules on how police officers can represent themselves in sting operations, and longtime "safe zones" like New York City have been closing professional dungeons.  So pros are running more risks than they were ten years ago.


As far as I could tell, the woman is operating independently. She mentions no affiliation as many of the Pro Dommes here do.

quote:

3. Did you have any exterior evidence that this prodomme was actually female?  A link to her web site?  If no, what intrigued you enough to write her in the first place?  I've heard there are actually people on the internet who sometimes scam other people.  Again, I wouldn't be in a big hurry to make a professional connection off this site.


Other than her claim; and her obscure, dark, and computer altered photos; no.

quote:

4. Finally, for actual dating -- I've found it a very good policy to give my name and contact info very quickly.  What do I care if the woman "isn't serious" or "isn't real?"  It dispels a lot of fears in her if I am forthcoming and not game-playing.  Plus, she's a lot more likely to be forthright about herself.  I can't see how things would be that much different when talking with a prodomme for the first time.  She'll feel more at ease if you're open and direct.


Well, I'm not overjoyed about the prospects of losing the advantages I once enjoyed. Those are of course, clearly seeing what I'm contemplating investing my money in and knowing what my cost will be, before I ante-in my ID.

This seemed as good of a place as any to put my situation out there, elicit the thoughts of others, and see if the world has changed since I've last played the game.

Thanks to you and others who have participated so far. 

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Has the world gone completely mad? - 1/28/2010 2:00:09 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kinkbound

I clearly stated up front that this was not a verification scam, and that it wouldn't cost me another cent to comply.

What I'm complaining about is being required to disclose my ID *prior* to seeing recent photos of the woman and knowing what my investment would be. I've never had to do this in the past. I personally think this is completely upside-down, and felt curious as to whether I'm dealing with a new trend.   



Maybe you weren't paying attention...

I didn't say you were saying it was a scam.

I asking you what the hell you were complaining about. You aren't having to make any effort on your part. You've put more effort into this thread than it would take you to go "My name is John Doe, my number is 555.555.5555 and my city and state are Gotham, Metropolis".

Then *she* calls to verify. And you are complaining because you don't get to see her picture before you take 30 seconds to type that info out?

ETA:

quote:


Well, I'm not overjoyed about the prospects of losing the advantages I once enjoyed. Those are of course, clearly seeing what I'm contemplating investing my money in and knowing what my cost will be, before I ante-in my ID.

Ahh... there is the key. You want to have all the power in this situation.

It's not an alarming trend, it doesn't take long, it not complicated, you just have to give up your ID before she does. And that bothers you.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 1/28/2010 2:04:13 PM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to kinkbound)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Has the world gone completely mad? - 1/28/2010 2:10:08 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline 		I was sloppy about one thing in my post.  I should have said that, when setting up dates off the internet, I've found it very helpful to offer my contact info within the first few emails.  By which I mean: full name, personal web site, sometimes a link to something I've written, phone number.  It's not a good idea to send a phone number or Yahoo IM info right off the bat, because women find it offputting.  It's like an invasion of a personal space bubble.

So a good question to ask, by email three or so, is, "May I send you my phone number?"  By contrast, I've had several female friends (mostly dommes) complain to me about men who send their name, address and phone number in the first email.  It's too much information, and you're more likely to generate a block than a response back.


_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Has the world gone completely mad? - 1/28/2010 4:56:16 PM   
kinkbound


Posts: 387
Joined: 9/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Ahh... there is the key. You want to have all the power in this situation.

It's not an alarming trend, it doesn't take long, it not complicated, you just have to give up your ID before she does. And that bothers you.


That's absurd. This has had absolutely nothing to do with taking a long time or being complicated, and everything to do with wanting to know what a woman looks like and what she charges before I disclose my ID. I think I've made this clear enough already.

Also, showing someone what you *look* like via photos, and quoting donation requirements isn't nearly the same as disclosing one's legal name, city and state, and telephone number.

By the way, do you often tell other people what bothers them? This seems a bit rude, if not outright flame baiting.

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Has the world gone completely mad? - 1/28/2010 5:04:56 PM   
kinkbound


Posts: 387
Joined: 9/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

I was sloppy about one thing in my post.  I should have said that, when setting up dates off the internet, I've found it very helpful to offer my contact info within the first few emails.  By which I mean: full name, personal web site, sometimes a link to something I've written, phone number.  It's not a good idea to send a phone number or Yahoo IM info right off the bat, because women find it offputting.  It's like an invasion of a personal space bubble.

So a good question to ask, by email three or so, is, "May I send you my phone number?"  By contrast, I've had several female friends (mostly dommes) complain to me about men who send their name, address and phone number in the first email.  It's too much information, and you're more likely to generate a block than a response back.



It seems I may have misunderstood your earlier reference to "dating" in post 54. After reading this message, it now seems clear that you meant legit, non-pro dating.


(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Has the world gone completely mad? - 1/28/2010 5:13:57 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline 		Yes.  Although -- prodommes date.  Several have personals on this site, in fact, looking for relationship partners.  I've dated two off CM.  Interestingly, both of their personal profiles were "sub," although they sexually switched.  It's not uncommon to want strong nilla, or dom, for boyfriend, and want subs/slaves professionally.


_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to kinkbound)
Profile   Post #: 60
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