RE: Obama at the House GOP retreat

RE: Obama at the House GOP retreat (Full Version)

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Lucylastic -> RE: Obama at the House GOP retreat (1/29/2010 10:03:44 PM)
Its funny it seemed to be working this week ... here and the UK... had dealings with both in my family, we are all alive, with medications and treated for various ailments...cost, total, 60$ out of pocket for medications. results of testing... in about a week Crippled??? nah.. Edited to add..sooo, is that what you guys meant by transparency?? I like it...really like it

TheHeretic -> RE: Obama at the House GOP retreat (1/29/2010 10:28:45 PM)
What a great bit of video. I haven't finished all 86 minutes yet, but I am wondering if maybe we need a soundtrack. Something with a nice bluesy guitar feel, maybe? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3L4spg8vyo edit to add a live version http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYS732zyYfU&feature=related It's sad that seeing conversations like this is so rare in our system.

rulemylife -> RE: Obama at the House GOP retreat (1/29/2010 10:46:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic [sm=rofl.gif][sm=rofl.gif][sm=rofl.gif][sm=rofl.gif][sm=rofl.gif] Willbur meet Truck.....you met your match I look forward to much more hilarity and ridiculousness ...thankyou Am I just getting paranoid or do I sense the latest sock puppet from a certain poster?

Lucylastic -> RE: Obama at the House GOP retreat (1/30/2010 4:48:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic What a great bit of video. I haven't finished all 86 minutes yet, but I am wondering if maybe we need a soundtrack. Something with a nice bluesy guitar feel, maybe? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3L4spg8vyo edit to add a live version http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYS732zyYfU&feature=related It's sad that seeing conversations like this is so rare in our system. What a great way to wake up in the morning, thankyou:)

Musicmystery -> RE: Obama at the House GOP retreat (1/30/2010 8:04:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Look, here's the thing. It's clear from this and other posts that you aren't aware of the past history here. It makes discussion pointless, as you're taking blind shots at things you obvious don't know anything about. Start there. We have a long history of regulation. We've also had disastrous deregulation. You obviously aren't up to speed on that history either. You've repeating blind abstractions. Perhaps you've heard of states' rights? There is every sensible reason why citizens in one state can choose differently than citizens in another. We call it the U.S. Constitution. Perhaps you've heard of it. Slogans, kid, aren't gonna do the job. Stop repeating them, and start reading your history. Yeah, youll cry states rights until its something you like and then youll plead the ICC. FYI, health insurance restrictions on interstate sales has nothing to do with states rights. Its purpose was to allow smaller companies the ability to grow and compete with established giants like BC/BS. It was fine in the early days of the business, but all it does now is restrict needed competition. So read your own damn history. Nope. I'm pointing out an inconsistency. It's all about states' rights until it's not convenient, from segregation to regulation. My state has strict insurance regulations. I like it. I'm willing to pay more for it. In fact, in choosing among the plans offered to me through my employment, I didn't choose the cheapest one either--I chose the one that best suits my needs (in this case, it offered more choice or providers). So what happens when cheap insurance from a poorer, less regulated state strips away gullible customers who don't recognize what they're no longer getting? And when angry customers go to the state AG, what happens? It's just not as simple as open the doors and let the prices drop, and you know enough business to know this. So what, we'll create another Delaware? It's a veiled attempt to deregulate. What happened to the plan they proposed in the early 90s? Where's that plan? Why haven't they resurrected it? It's an end run.

Musicmystery -> RE: Obama at the House GOP retreat (1/30/2010 8:10:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: truckinslave What history is it you assume I don't know? What deregulation is it that you think was so disastrous? States rights don't exist anymore. Haven't for decades. There is no sensible reason why the legislature of Florida would (or can, today) tell a resident of Tallahassee he cannot buy a health insurance policy available in Columbus, Ga. Kid? Thanks. Go back and read the exchanges. You continually make blanket statements at odds with established reality and lessons learned. You seem unaware of airline deregulation, where costs soared and service sank, of telecommunications deregulation, where costs soared and service sank (though fiber optics did improve line quality), of banking deregulation which overturned 50 years of no big financial crises to 30 years of massive bank failures and scandals from the Savings & Loan debacle to the recent mess over mortgages, derivatives and another massive bailout. And we just bailed out AIG, a massive insurance company. For the rest, see the above post.

Aynne88 -> RE: Obama at the House GOP retreat (1/30/2010 8:19:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AnimusRex quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy Denzel...excellent analogy. Obama is an actor who can slip in and out of character without knowing a fucking thing about what hes portraying. Pwned! We elected an actor as President! HAH...what a fuckin joke that would be, an actor in the White House. HAH! I just love this, freaking idiots. They have no clue do they? Sad really....

AnimusRex -> RE: Obama at the House GOP retreat (1/30/2010 9:50:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Go back and read the exchanges. You continually make blanket statements at odds with established reality and lessons learned. You seem unaware of airline deregulation, where costs soared and service sank, of telecommunications deregulation, where costs soared and service sank (though fiber optics did improve line quality), of banking deregulation which overturned 50 years of no big financial crises to 30 years of massive bank failures and scandals from the Savings & Loan debacle to the recent mess over mortgages, derivatives and another massive bailout. And we just bailed out AIG, a massive insurance company. For the rest, see the above post. See, this is why i stopped following the conservative crowd. A belief in the ability of free markets to do good things, is not the same as an all consuming cult-like faith in free markets as being the universal correct answer for every problem. There are some things that work better as unregulated free markets, such as consumer retailing; there are other things that work best as regulated public utilities, like the electric company; then there are things that work best as entirely public entities like the police department. This point of view was the established consensus of American politics from the 1920s through the 1980s, but is under attack by the current conservative movement. Honestly, without a trace of snark, the conservative movement of the past decade seems like a radicalized version of Reaganism, a movement that practically worships the notion of Free Markets, resistant and openly hostile to any suggestion otherwise. They do resembe the late stage Marxists, who saw any disagreement with doctrine as treason. the fact that Dede Scozzafava and Charlie Crist are described by bloggers like Erick Erickson at RedState a "hard leftists" is evidence of this cultish mindset.

lusciouslips19 -> RE: Obama at the House GOP retreat (1/30/2010 9:53:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Look, here's the thing. It's clear from this and other posts that you aren't aware of the past history here. It makes discussion pointless, as you're taking blind shots at things you obvious don't know anything about. Start there. We have a long history of regulation. We've also had disastrous deregulation. You obviously aren't up to speed on that history either. You've repeating blind abstractions. Perhaps you've heard of states' rights? There is every sensible reason why citizens in one state can choose differently than citizens in another. We call it the U.S. Constitution. Perhaps you've heard of it. Slogans, kid, aren't gonna do the job. Stop repeating them, and start reading your history. Yeah, youll cry states rights until its something you like and then youll plead the ICC. FYI, health insurance restrictions on interstate sales has nothing to do with states rights. Its purpose was to allow smaller companies the ability to grow and compete with established giants like BC/BS. It was fine in the early days of the business, but all it does now is restrict needed competition. So read your own damn history. Nope. I'm pointing out an inconsistency. It's all about states' rights until it's not convenient, from segregation to regulation. My state has strict insurance regulations. I like it. I'm willing to pay more for it. In fact, in choosing among the plans offered to me through my employment, I didn't choose the cheapest one either--I chose the one that best suits my needs (in this case, it offered more choice or providers). So what happens when cheap insurance from a poorer, less regulated state strips away gullible customers who don't recognize what they're no longer getting? And when angry customers go to the state AG, what happens? It's just not as simple as open the doors and let the prices drop, and you know enough business to know this. So what, we'll create another Delaware? It's a veiled attempt to deregulate. What happened to the plan they proposed in the early 90s? Where's that plan? Why haven't they resurrected it? It's an end run. I have nothing political to say. But you and Rex make me Hawt!!![8D]

Musicmystery -> RE: Obama at the House GOP retreat (1/30/2010 9:55:45 AM)
Add to this that their "conservative" heroes have continually increased the deficit while lining their own pockets by widening the gulf between the very rich and the very poor. Somebody ain't smelling the coffee. Their leaders are playing them. Throw in some "God wants me for office," and the brainwash is complete.

Musicmystery -> RE: Obama at the House GOP retreat (1/30/2010 9:58:10 AM)
quote: But you and Rex make me Hawt!!! We get that a lot. [;)]

lusciouslips19 -> RE: Obama at the House GOP retreat (1/30/2010 10:00:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: But you and Rex make me Hawt!!! We get that a lot. [;)] Just keep saying "deregulation". *sqeeeeeeeeee

Musicmystery -> RE: Obama at the House GOP retreat (1/30/2010 10:10:55 AM)
quote: Honestly, without a trace of snark, the conservative movement of the past decade seems like a radicalized version of Reaganism, a movement that practically worships the notion of Free Markets, resistant and openly hostile to any suggestion otherwise. They do resembe the late stage Marxists, who saw any disagreement with doctrine as treason. The problem is exactly this---Reagan told them everything was simple. He decided going back to his idol, Calvin Coolidge, a president who didn't do anything except enjoy a post-war boom riding about saying "the business of America is business," setting us up for that idiot Hoover who rushed along the start of the Depression (and with protective tariffs--history, folks, history), undoing the New Deal would make life simple again. Why? Because a few of his wealthy actor friends were disinclined by progressive taxes to start new ventures (yes, literally). So he ignored all the good, proclaimed "government is the problem," and set out to establish his new system---ridiculed by Bush and Dole as "reagonomics" and "voodoo economics--which failed. And from that ill-fated beginning--a cult following. Why? They've got no one else. And besides, "It's just that simple." No analysis, no impacts, no long-term thinking, no troublesome examination of the facts and circumstances--simple. A simplistic plan born of simplistic thinking.

TheHeretic -> RE: Obama at the House GOP retreat (1/30/2010 11:02:26 AM)
Sure, Muse. It isn't like deregulation freed innovators from the crush of onerous legislation or anything... It was completely baa-aaad. One shining example Perhaps nuance is only for ideas you like?

Musicmystery -> RE: Obama at the House GOP retreat (1/30/2010 11:06:40 AM)
Perhaps you'll note that I didn't say anywhere that deregulation is ipso facto bad. I am, however, challenging the claim that all deregulation is ipso facto good. That's just nonsense, and historically inaccurate--not to mention currently inaccurate. It's the blind cultish adherence Animus mentions that's the problem. By the way, so are the gratuitous straw-man slams.

DomKen -> RE: Obama at the House GOP retreat (1/30/2010 11:16:02 AM)
Which flight are you claiming was only possible free of regulations? Voyager which began planning in 1980, well before deregulation began, or Global Flyer? And precisely what onerous regulations had to be done away with before such experimental aircraft could be flown?

Musicmystery -> RE: Obama at the House GOP retreat (1/30/2010 11:17:32 AM)
Don't burst his bubble. It's the closest thing he's gonna get to a relevant fact.

TheHeretic -> RE: Obama at the House GOP retreat (1/30/2010 11:36:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Which flight are you claiming was only possible free of regulations? Voyager which began planning in 1980, well before deregulation began, or Global Flyer? And precisely what onerous regulations had to be done away with before such experimental aircraft could be flown? It's pdf, I'm afraid, you'll just have to look for the quote in the second column, but it quotes Burt Rutan (the designer and builder of Voyager as saying: I want to thank Ronald Reagan for providing and maintaining this environment that was devoid of governtment regulations... I only filled out two pieces of paper for the US government

DomKen -> RE: Obama at the House GOP retreat (1/30/2010 4:00:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Which flight are you claiming was only possible free of regulations? Voyager which began planning in 1980, well before deregulation began, or Global Flyer? And precisely what onerous regulations had to be done away with before such experimental aircraft could be flown? It's pdf, I'm afraid, you'll just have to look for the quote in the second column, but it quotes Burt Rutan (the designer and builder of Voyager as saying: I want to thank Ronald Reagan for providing and maintaining this environment that was devoid of governtment regulations... I only filled out two pieces of paper for the US government I honestly don't know or care what Rutan believed but the fact is that the US hasalways had a very open policy towards experimental aircraft. http://www.airventure.org/about/history.html

Thadius -> RE: Obama at the House GOP retreat (1/30/2010 4:16:32 PM)
Exactly right, Ken. The regulations regarding experimental aircraft and the pilots of such are very lax, especially compared to those for private and commercial fixed and rotary aircraft.

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