RE: City condems house for only using solar (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion



Message


Musicmystery -> RE: City condems house for only using solar (2/1/2010 8:10:10 PM)

Of course! The Illuminati were here just this morning to ascertain everything is in order.

After all, I retain the original copy of the Donation of Constantine....




TheHeretic -> RE: City condems house for only using solar (2/1/2010 8:12:01 PM)

Well, I'm looking at what you've given us, Mist, and while my inner libertarian is wanting to agree with the outrage, my conservative outlook has me wanting to ask a few questions.  Is this a genuine enviro-crusader, or just a neo-hippie who thinks "power ought to be free, man," and has hit the end of the road with a splash of publicity?  Let's get to know a bit more before we turn her into the poster-child for some damn-fool liberal "solution."

As far as building codes, if somebody wants to live in an "experimental" house, I think they ought to be able to do that within the law.  It's going to be bitch if they want to rent it out or sell it, though





WyldHrt -> RE: City condems house for only using solar (2/1/2010 8:27:58 PM)

quote:

Is this a genuine enviro-crusader, or just a neo-hippie who thinks "power ought to be free, man," and has hit the end of the road with a splash of publicity?

Actually, I think it has more to do with getting laid off and only being able to find a job that pays $200 a week.




AnimusRex -> RE: City condems house for only using solar (2/1/2010 8:32:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: WyldHrt

quote:

Is this a genuine enviro-crusader, or just a neo-hippie who thinks "power ought to be free, man," and has hit the end of the road with a splash of publicity?

Actually, I think it has more to do with getting laid off and only being able to find a job that pays $200 a week.



Old joke:
What do you call a liberal who got mugged?
A conservative.


New joke:
What do you call a conservative who got laid off?
A liberal.




WyldHrt -> RE: City condems house for only using solar (2/1/2010 8:33:56 PM)

SO true, Animus! [:D]




thornhappy -> RE: City condems house for only using solar (2/1/2010 9:02:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tenire

One would think that the City Engineers would check their numbers, instead of just leaving it to the other Engineering firm.

You'd need a whole bunch to oversee the designs.  If you want to get down in the weeds of the models, you'd need a team for each project, probably for 6 months.




AnimusRex -> RE: City condems house for only using solar (2/1/2010 9:40:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrMister
Notice anything there about the city code enforcer being sued? About permit fees being returned? About any consequence whatsoever for the thieves who took thousands and thousands of dollars for a completely bogus claim of safety?


You ask why the public code enforcers were not sued.

Why? Why in the fuck should they bear any blame for this?
Do you think it is their design? No, it isn't.
Did they create it? No, they didn't.
Did they construct it? No, they didn't.
Did they personally oversee it? No, they didn't.

The public inspector comes by the jobsite usually when he is called to verify that the built work compllies with what was permitted. He might be allowed by the city to spend a couple hours, walking though a large and complex structure like a hotel, with thousands and thousands of connections, fitting, and conditions.

"The city allowed me to fuck up, so its their fault" is the whine of nanny-statists everywhere.

In case you are wondering, the contractor changed a connection from what was designed; the field engineer mistakenly approved it, and that was that. The city inspector likely never came within 20 feet of the connection, much less inspected it, or analyzed its design.

There may be cases of unjust liability; but this in't one of them.




MrMister -> RE: City condems house for only using solar (2/1/2010 9:56:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrMister
Notice anything there about the city code enforcer being sued? About permit fees being returned? About any consequence whatsoever for the thieves who took thousands and thousands of dollars for a completely bogus claim of safety?


You ask why the public code enforcers were not sued.

Why? Why in the fuck should they bear any blame for this?
Do you think it is their design? No, it isn't.
Did they create it? No, they didn't.
Did they construct it? No, they didn't.
Did they personally oversee it? No, they didn't.

The public inspector comes by the jobsite usually when he is called to verify that the built work compllies with what was permitted. He might be allowed by the city to spend a couple hours, walking though a large and complex structure like a hotel, with thousands and thousands of connections, fitting, and conditions.

"The city allowed me to fuck up, so its their fault" is the whine of nanny-statists everywhere.

In case you are wondering, the contractor changed a connection from what was designed; the field engineer mistakenly approved it, and that was that. The city inspector likely never came within 20 feet of the connection, much less inspected it, or analyzed its design.

There may be cases of unjust liability; but this in't one of them.


From your statements here, I can only assume that you have little to no experience in such matters. My point was the code enforcement office nor its agents can ever be held liable, although it is the same government entity that mandates the builder must adhere to said codes, particularly even when those codes that have been adopted are substandard or downright faulty.

edited to add why is it so common here on this forum for anyone who disagrees with another's statement or claim to reply in such an ill-mannered way? Is it so difficult to do so with some degree of civility? I venture to guess it must have become the norm around here.





subfever -> RE: City condems house for only using solar (2/1/2010 10:14:01 PM)

quote:

when corporations own the politicians, the industry's will is translated into law.



Bingo (in general, and not necessarily as it applies to the OP).

Now, is this at least something that both the righties and lefties can agree on?




subfever -> RE: City condems house for only using solar (2/1/2010 10:18:47 PM)

quote:

Layoff triggers financial woes Stevens was laid off as a risk compliance officer for Wells Fargo Bank in January 2009. She has been working as a security guard for Trident Security Services, making $200 a week, since November, she said./snip

Once the TARP take effect I am sure the matter will be cleared up in a jiffy.


Now that's funny! ... [:D]




Termyn8or -> RE: City condems house for only using solar (2/1/2010 11:10:13 PM)

This is getting totally out of control. Ain't it kewl ?

And I mean it. It is out of control. Even I am guilty of it. The issue seems to have been if the government can throw you out of your own home for it not meeting it's standards. I say no. I also notice up west a ways in Cleveland here a house blew up due to a gas leak. Many houses were blown off their foundations, and actually were unsafe. There was an evacuation, forced.

It is my choice if I wish to remain on MY property, that is it. Do I have to sign a waiver to indemnify ? Whom ?

This is bullshit. Those people were probably an eyesore in the first place, then they went through all their names to get electric, probably never had gas. Living like that here were no doubt alot of possible problems like rats and other vermin. I bet they had barking dogs as well. This is what caused them problems and really in a neighborhood I can see where someone decided to crank the screws down on them. I know people like that, I know people who can't even get US mail at their house. (it was a barking dog, but a human one that caused this). I would not want them in my neighborhood, even though we are connected through family. Not blood but family.

Who the fuck has the job of seeing to it that everybody has a refrigerator running ? That must be one hell of a carreer. The answer is nobody has that specific job until they are looking for it. The fact is nobody ever looks for a job, they look for pay. These black helicopters that swooped down on this poor old Woman living in a shoe didn't do it because they saw a fucking twelve watt solar panel on the roof, if the system was even that extensive. Thay came because somehow the neighborhood didn't like them.

I'll shut off my gas, electric, water and even my phone (EEEK the DSL line ! ) and they won't come for me. I know how to live in society now. My neighbors want me to stay. A few tears ago across the street she was thinking of moving out to a condo. I told her she would hate it but she retorted that she was pushing sixty and the yard work was getting to her and her olman. I told her straight out "If you need help let me know, if I can't do it I'll get someone to do it". I meant what I said. That was probably four years ago, and she has not made a peep about it, she is out there raking leaves and all that, her olman mows the grass. She is loving every minute of it because she has realized that if she had condoed out on us she would be a potato by now.

As with the other neighbors, we are tolerant of each other, as well as respectful. That is the way to live. These people in the article obviously did not quite live that way.

Selling you a house in a tight knit neighborhood is the best way to teach you that the environment does not adapt to you, you must adapt to it. Worked for me.

The point is, they were being watched. It is one thing to lose an occupancy certificate if there is no water and no well or septic tank, but to sit there and figure out the capacity of a bank of solar cells to bust someone ? Give me a break. This did not just happen. And if they were a huge nuisance I would support measures to get rid of them. I would here, so why not there ?

If there's one thing I've learned it's that it is increasingly more difficult to coexist with other as time goes by. Now an effort must be made, and those who are careless or wreckless in that regard will become targets.

T




ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: City condems house for only using solar (2/2/2010 12:42:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrMister

It gets even better (worse).  In the Kansas City Hyatt disaster, the original design for the walkway support did not meet the requirements of the Kansas City building code.  It was only about 60% of the required strength.  After the field change to the design, which essentially doubled the stress on the 4th story joints, the design was only 30% as strong as required.

So the Kansas City building inspector was there all the time, demanding money and getting paid, demanding that drawings be submitted and getting them.  Drawings that they either did not evaluate or were incompetent to do so. These are the cold hard facts.

So where is the justice in punishing the engineers while doing nothing to the people who approved and inspected their designs?  Who promulgated and published design rules that they were unwilling or unable to enforce, but who took money for their "services" anyway?

There is no justice.  There is simply theft, and dead bodies of innocent people.  That's what comes from government. And was one of the reasons behind me posting this thread in the first place.



That's not my memory of what happened. As i recall, the City inspectors had nothing to do with the collapse. The problem was negligence and miscommunication between the contractor and the engineering firm that designed the supports for the walkway. If i'm wrong, I'd be curious to see the information about the City inspector being "there all the time." In my experience, it's very unusual for a city engineer to spend very much time on a jobsite. That's why contractors hire private engineering firms, to constantly monitor and test their work and document that it met codes and design requirements.




ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: City condems house for only using solar (2/2/2010 12:49:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrMister


From your statements here, I can only assume that you have little to no experience in such matters. My point was the code enforcement office nor its agents can ever be held liable, although it is the same government entity that mandates the builder must adhere to said codes, particularly even when those codes that have been adopted are substandard or downright faulty.



Oh, I missed this. Then my question would be, why is that even relevant? Why is the city responsible for the contractor failing to meet the city's code?




SeekingAZ -> RE: City condems house for only using solar (2/2/2010 1:24:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

so then we can conclude that green energy is a scam.


while it can be used to lessen the use of amount of energy- it will not replace the helium 3 on the moon which has potential for high dense energy.



You're going to confuse everybody by bringing up actual science. I mean science where scientists actually post a hypothesis and a experiment to prove or disprove the theory that can be replicated by others. Most people here believe science is some impossible to prove bullshit made up by some leftist incompetent belonging to the IPCC. Oh no, we can't have cleaner burning fission (and possibly fusion) reactors, not if it's going to disturb the natural environment of the moon, boo whoo, waaaaa. I mean the IPCC says the tooth fairy and the easter bunny live in the sands of the moon during their off seasons and we have to protect the children's chocolate bunnys and silver dollars ya know ?





SeekingAZ -> RE: City condems house for only using solar (2/2/2010 1:52:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

so then we can conclude that green energy is a scam.


while it can be used to lessen the use of amount of energy- it will not replace the helium 3 on the moon which has potential for high dense energy.



I constantly underestimate your amazing capacity for idiocy. Not to mention your disdain for cause and effect reasoning.

Solar energy is entirely workable. Many, many homes have it and use it successfully. And legally.

Just not this way.

Good luck with that moon thing.


Solar is the answer ? Really ? I'll give you a trillion dollars if you lock yourself into a solar (photovoltaic) only (above ground) home with 6 months of food and water in Anchorage Alaska and actually survive the winter.

Solar is awesome, for space satellites and in rare areas on earth, like Arizona for offsetting a residence's electrical bill only. As soon as you scale systems up to the power plant level (where no form of electrical storage on that scale is practical) solar is a boon doggle. Completely fiscally irresponsible compared to a natural gas fired plant (of which there's over a century of proven reserves within the United States and Canada alone).

Wind power is even worse on a large scale. Gas turbines are required to balance the constantly varying output of the wind field and this constant throttling makes the natural gas turbines burn more fuel than if you just feathered all the windmills and allowed the turbines to carry the entire electrical load. Of course, the gas turbines at wind fields are already capable of supplying the whole load because sometime the wind just doesn't blow. So, wind fields cost the same as a traditional gas fired plant plus whatever the windmill infrastructure costs and are less efficient and produce more pollutants than the gas fired plant alone would produce.

Oh, btw, solar plants require the same (sub optimal) gas turbine infrastructure, because, well, despite how much Obama pleads with mother nature, the bitch still shadows solar cells via clouds from time to time (admittedly not as bad as no wind) and even more viciously she hides the sun on the other side of the planet roughly half the time. In Arizona, considering the latitude and low level of cloud cover and the fact that solar output peaks the same time air conditioning does, solar is probably a net positive. Most other places it's feel good idiocy. Oh, btw, all those net-metered home installations force the same inefficiencies to the grid as a traditional solar power plant and as an additional penalty the utility needs the technical know how and additional expense to manage hundreds of tiny plants instead of a few traditional large plants.

If science drove the design of the electrical grid, net metering would be banned. You want to do the bleeding heart solar energy thing at home, you pay to put up enough solar panels to supply all your needs along with a big enough battery bank to go off the grid and you pay the whole cost instead of passing on the majority of the cost to the taxpayer (and learn science like motor power factors or suffer the consequences). But, this country isn't run by science it's run by liberal stupidity.

Being technically competent and liberal are mutually exclusive.





SeekingAZ -> RE: City condems house for only using solar (2/2/2010 2:13:01 AM)

Oh and i forgot.

This thread should be titled. Woman gets her house condemned because she annoyed her neighbors and her home owner's association by sleeping in her car in front of her house for however long she was doing it. Gotta love hearing a car fire up and rev for 15 minutes every hour to run the heater.

The whole story is probably cover for that situation because it sounds incredibly insensitive and there probably isn't a law that allows you to forbid a homeowner from running a car in the driveway despite the disturbances it might be causing her neighbors. Her neighbors have a right to peace and quiet at night and since she wasn't paying the mortgage and was on her way out anyway, the most likely guess is the HOA found a way to make it happen sooner. It's not a Republican plot against solar (although that would be scientifically justifiable).





Termyn8or -> RE: City condems house for only using solar (2/2/2010 2:38:18 AM)

Meander about the energy crisis all you want but that was not the point.

I will shut off everything this summer, everything. I will alert the media, the city and the police. They will come for me and tell me I have to have this and that to live in my own house. I will tell them I don't and they will retort that the code says I do. I will then show them what the second amendment really means, as I think they need it. Just returning the favor.

Do you fucking get it ? What I said before clearly says that I believe that there was other hanky panky going on. This is what got them in trouble. Not having some modern convenience does not cut it, that can be killed so fast in court that you never saw case law made so fast. If you play it right both the Aryan Brotherhood and the NAACP will both support your cause. (that would be something huh). I mean if this was truly the case with no exponential issues, we are talking maybe even B'nai Brith and Al Qaeda both contributing to the cause. Because your electric is shut off you need to move out into the rain, under a bridge ? Fuck, all you have to do is call a TV station and that shit will either go away or become the issue dejure.

If you play your cards just right you could have millions in donations, while a veteran sits under the bridge down the street, hungry and cold. I did tell my Parents "This is a fine fucking world you gave us", and rightly so, they esponded "We didn't do it, that's just the way things are".

T




SeekingAZ -> RE: City condems house for only using solar (2/2/2010 2:56:39 AM)

Turn everything off you want, No one will give a shit as long as you're not disturbing your neighbors. Even if you do disturb your neighbors, unless where-ever you live also has a HOA with a nazi-level reputation (as is common place in Arizona), still nothing will probably happen to you.

A person pissing off their HOA and suffering consequences isn't news. Saying the consequences were due to some leftist favored issue the person has, did make it news. Whatever. Keep consuming your party's propaganda you're only damaging yourself.

And btw, with proven natural gas and oil reserves within this hemisphere big enough to last decades to a century and multiple centuries worth of coal within our borders there is no "energy crisis". There is a stupid/evil government crisis and the even dumber citizen crisis that results in the former people remaining in power.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Meander about the energy crisis all you want but that was not the point.

I will shut off everything this summer, everything. I will alert the media, the city and the police. They will come for me and tell me I have to have this and that to live in my own house. I will tell them I don't and they will retort that the code says I do. I will then show them what the second amendment really means, as I think they need it. Just returning the favor.

Do you fucking get it ? What I said before clearly says that I believe that there was other hanky panky going on. This is what got them in trouble. Not having some modern convenience does not cut it, that can be killed so fast in court that you never saw case law made so fast. If you play it right both the Aryan Brotherhood and the NAACP will both support your cause. (that would be something huh). I mean if this was truly the case with no exponential issues, we are talking maybe even B'nai Brith and Al Qaeda both contributing to the cause. Because your electric is shut off you need to move out into the rain, under a bridge ? Fuck, all you have to do is call a TV station and that shit will either go away or become the issue dejure.

If you play your cards just right you could have millions in donations, while a veteran sits under the bridge down the street, hungry and cold. I did tell my Parents "This is a fine fucking world you gave us", and rightly so, they esponded "We didn't do it, that's just the way things are".

T





eyesopened -> RE: City condems house for only using solar (2/2/2010 4:11:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tenire
Regardless, there are ways it CAN be done without getting in legal trouble. The gov't is perfectly fine with it AND depending on how much energy you produce, you can even SELL IT TO THE UTILITY PROVIDER.


I have a friend in northern California who did just this.  He was able to build his own hydro-electrical plant and had not only enough power to supply his own property but the utility company was compelled (by that same evil government) to purchase his excess power.  He lives in a totally self-sustaining environment growing his own food, supplying his own power, using water from his own wells and natural springs.  Not everybody can do this, but it can and is done. 




Musicmystery -> RE: City condems house for only using solar (2/2/2010 5:22:09 AM)

quote:

Solar is the answer ?


Didn't say that, did I.

I said it's feasible. I pointed out there are many solar homes. And so there are.

But since you bring it up--91 square miles of sunlight would power the entire U.S. More importantly, though, is that the problem with power transmission is transporting it to where you want it. That's not a problem with solar, as sunlight is everywhere.

You're using an outdated 60s argument. The state of the industry is far different than it was.

Here, we use wind power and hydroelectric (especially hydroelectric). 20% of New York's power is from renewable sources.

But....at least you got in your anti-liberal rant. Did you cum?






Page: <<   < prev  3 4 [5] 6 7   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy
0.046875