City condems house for only using solar (Full Version)

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MrMister -> City condems house for only using solar (2/1/2010 6:50:13 AM)

I was wondering if any of you folks had seen this story:

http://www.azcentral.com/community/swvalley/articles/2010/01/27/20100127-avondale-condemned-no-electricity.html

Quote:
An Avondale woman who spent 11 days sleeping in her car said the city treated her unfairly when her home was condemned in December for lack of electricity.

But city officials said Christine Stevens violated building codes, a health and safety concern because Avondale homes are required to have heating systems and a running refrigerator.


"Oh my goodness, you don't have enough power to run a refrigerator!!!  We are so concerned for your well being we are going to throw you out of your house."

Quote:
"We explained to her that the panels weren't enough to sustain a quality of life there," said Pam Altounian, code enforcement manager for Avondale.

"Silly little subject...trying to think for yourself...you should know better."

Quote:
Avondale officials said they unaware that Stevens was living in her car or they would have offered further assistance. Case reports show enforcement officials offered Stevens social services information on Dec. 10 and asked her if she had a place to stay on Dec. 15, to which she replied "yes."  

Quote:
She has since paid about $1,338 to APS, including overdue fees dating to January 2009, theft of services payment, and reinstallation fees. Stevens is back at home but was unable to pay two mortgage payments on the house and is now in danger of losing it, she said.

"There you go little subject...we have saved you from living your life as you see fit.  To bad about losing your home to foreclosure...but we can help you out there too...Just let us tattoo this bar code to your wrist and we will make it all better.  Silly little subject...thinking that you know what is best for yourself."

John Stossel has picked up on this too:
http://stossel.blogs.foxbusiness.com/2010/01/29/danger-they%E2%80%99re-looking-out-for-your-health-and-safety/

She's lucky she didn't have any children.... or she would now not have any children anyway. Unless, of course, she had a running refrigerator and full bathroom in the car... CPS is very strict about such things. If they can find you, of course.

"We're from the government and we're here to help you." Words from an endless nightmare.

One of the worst parts about this is the handful of lockstep authoritarian jackasses replying to the story...One had the nerve to say that wanting to live "off grid" with solar was enough evidence to prove she was mentally ill...simply amazing!

One has to wonder what was this "really about"?
Was it "quality of life" as some put it...............or was it about keeping the money going round and round and round, so government can grab it's "fair share" every time it changes hands?
If the money stops moving...............so does government..............you figure it out




Real0ne -> RE: City condems house for only using solar (2/1/2010 7:20:16 AM)

meantime 5 blocks away a beggar is on the street corner bumming for a meal and they didnt see him standing there!




CruelNUnsual -> RE: City condems house for only using solar (2/1/2010 8:12:40 AM)

nmsplol




MrMister -> RE: City condems house for only using solar (2/1/2010 8:33:08 AM)

quote:

nmsplol
quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelNUnsual

nmsplol


Any possibility you would care to elaborate on the meaning of "nmsplol"?




MissIsis -> RE: City condems house for only using solar (2/1/2010 8:39:22 AM)

It is about our government both local, & national, thinking they know better than we do about how we should live.  Communities have their standards & expect us all to live up to them.  I am constantly amazed at all the intrusive local laws & rules that we all have to live with.  It seems it is perfectly alright for us to support those that come up with these laws & that we pay for enforcement of them, but yet, providing basic medical care for people is considered a drain on taxpayer money.  What a bunch of morons we have put in charge of representing us.  




DomKen -> RE: City condems house for only using solar (2/1/2010 9:21:30 AM)

You might want to read the article. The home wasn't condemned because it was only using solar but because the panels did not provide enough power to even run a refridgerator. Considering that it is in central Arizona that means it was virtually no solar panels. The article also makes clear that last fall someone tampered with the disconnected electric meter in an attempt to steal power.





Musicmystery -> RE: City condems house for only using solar (2/1/2010 9:23:47 AM)

Also, having a working refrigerator is a health issue.

I'm all for alternate approaches to housing and power, but I'm with the man on this one.




pahunkboy -> RE: City condems house for only using solar (2/1/2010 9:30:45 AM)

so then we can conclude that green energy is a scam.


while it can be used to lessen the use of amount of energy- it will not replace the helium 3 on the moon which has potential for high dense energy.




ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: City condems house for only using solar (2/1/2010 9:31:21 AM)

If the house had a solar system that was truly self-sustaining, that'd be one thing. But that's not what she was even attempting to do. She was borrowing electricity from a neighbor with an extension cord, someone in the house had been stealing electricity from the electric company, and she only installed enough solar panels to keep some lights on in the house. There's a reason that municipalities have building codes, and the city was perfectly justified in taking action when she violated them. 




Musicmystery -> RE: City condems house for only using solar (2/1/2010 9:34:16 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

so then we can conclude that green energy is a scam.


while it can be used to lessen the use of amount of energy- it will not replace the helium 3 on the moon which has potential for high dense energy.



I constantly underestimate your amazing capacity for idiocy. Not to mention your disdain for cause and effect reasoning.

Solar energy is entirely workable. Many, many homes have it and use it successfully. And legally.

Just not this way.

Good luck with that moon thing.




Rule -> RE: City condems house for only using solar (2/1/2010 9:38:18 AM)

I do not even have a refrigerator. I am glad that I am not living in Arizona.




pahunkboy -> RE: City condems house for only using solar (2/1/2010 10:01:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

so then we can conclude that green energy is a scam.


while it can be used to lessen the use of amount of energy- it will not replace the helium 3 on the moon which has potential for high dense energy.



I constantly underestimate your amazing capacity for idiocy. Not to mention your disdain for cause and effect reasoning.

Solar energy is entirely workable. Many, many homes have it and use it successfully. And legally.

Just not this way.

Good luck with that moon thing.


people have voted with their feet on this one.   No one in this zip code has this easy- and cheap solar thing.   




pahunkboy -> RE: City condems house for only using solar (2/1/2010 10:03:28 AM)

BTW-  corporations who make profit from resources outside of earth are no longer taxable. So any score of helium 3 from the moon would be totally tax free.




pahunkboy -> RE: City condems house for only using solar (2/1/2010 10:04:46 AM)

http://www.wired.com/science/space/news/2006/12/72276




Termyn8or -> RE: City condems house for only using solar (2/1/2010 10:05:44 AM)

Another misleading headline. So what's new ?

The right writer can take such a story and make it look like anything. One can give the impression that one of the black helicopters saw the solar panels and a SWAT team swooped down on them like vultures. Another can make it sound like they were running a meth lab.

T




MrMister -> RE: City condems house for only using solar (2/1/2010 10:06:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

You might want to read the article. The home wasn't condemned because it was only using solar but because the panels did not provide enough power to even run a refridgerator. Considering that it is in central Arizona that means it was virtually no solar panels. The article also makes clear that last fall someone tampered with the disconnected electric meter in an attempt to steal power.




I mean absolutely no disrespect to you DomKen, but your reply is a prime example of how the vast majority of our society has become so acclimated to the line of thought that our government (local, state, federal) knows what is best for its citizens. I personally would much rather decide that for myself, and feel that those who are similarly inclined should be left alone to conduct our affairs as we see fit. As long as it doesn't encroach upon the rights of others. I am a believer in the principle that no one has the right, under any circumstances, to initiate force against another human being for any reason whatever; nor advocate the initiation of force, or delegate it to anyone else.

quote:

The home wasn't condemned because it was only using solar but because the panels did not provide enough power to even run a refridgerator.


Could you please explain to me what gives any person the right to decide something like this for the lady in question ,or any one of us for that matter?

Furthermore, I (a general contractor for many a year now) used to believe that generally speaking, permits, building codes and the like are geared towards eliminating liability as it concerns 'public safety' issues that may effect the governing body who has jurisdiction over code enforcement in whatever local. If there were ever a problem that comes up later on down the road (building collapse, toxic contamination, etc), then the governing body (state, county, city, etc) would be the first in line for liability and legal action against. Particularly if some one was injured or killed from a structure that was not code compliant.

I have since found out otherwise from first-hand experience with such matters. Permits are about money and power, nothing more. Fact is governments are NEVER held liable for their incompetence, negligence, or outright criminal acts. Have a look at the following link if you will;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_immunity#In_the_United_States

Sovereign immunity originally applied to kings, then to the federal government, then it was extended to state governments, and now it de facto applies to all government. The local code enforcement agency WON'T be held liable, even after they have taken their bribes permit fees and made a big show of walking around and hassling the contractor or homeowner or the family dog if no other sentient being is available.

Government, always and everywhere, is theft and violence, nothing more.  In the extremely rare case where government actually benefits some individual, it does so by stealing from a far greater number.  The net benefit is always negative. 

Government is never liable, never responsible, never helpful.  It steals and kills.  It's very good at those activities.  End of story.






Musicmystery -> RE: City condems house for only using solar (2/1/2010 10:06:42 AM)

quote:

any score of helium 3 from the moon would be totally tax free


Cheap and easy to acquire and transport too.

[8|]

All you need is lots and lots of fuel to get there and back....







pahunkboy -> RE: City condems house for only using solar (2/1/2010 10:12:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

any score of helium 3 from the moon would be totally tax free


Cheap and easy to acquire and transport too.

[8|]

All you need is lots and lots of fuel to get there and back....






well your easy and cheap solar did not work for that condemned homeowner. LOL




Musicmystery -> RE: City condems house for only using solar (2/1/2010 10:15:45 AM)

Jesus Christ.

That condemned homeowner didn't have a solar home. She had a few jerry-rigged power cords.

But that "logic," the grid didn't work for her either.





pahunkboy -> RE: City condems house for only using solar (2/1/2010 10:20:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Another misleading headline. So what's new ?

The right writer can take such a story and make it look like anything. One can give the impression that one of the black helicopters saw the solar panels and a SWAT team swooped down on them like vultures. Another can make it sound like they were running a meth lab.

T



can I have a pony?




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