RE: Is Obama really as smart as he's reputed to be?

RE: Is Obama really as smart as he's reputed to be? (Full Version)

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thompsonx -> RE: Is Obama really as smart as he's reputed to be? (2/5/2010 4:21:08 PM)
quote: Read closer You mean read your mind. Sorry not one of my talents

Mercnbeth -> RE: Is Obama really as smart as he's reputed to be? (2/5/2010 4:36:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: Read closer You mean read your mind. Sorry not one of my talents You don't do so well with the written word either. Sign language perhaps? Interpretive dance? Vulcan mind meld?

Thadius -> RE: Is Obama really as smart as he's reputed to be? (2/5/2010 4:37:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: "You don't go buying a boat when you can barely pay your mortgage. You don't blow a bunch of cash on Vegas when you're trying to save for college." ~ President Obama I have asked several times already but you seem uninterested in answering. Why is it good idea to buy a boat when you can barely pay your mortgage? Why is it a good idea to blow a bunch of cash on Vegas when you're trying to save for college? To answer your questions, I will do so from the mindset that is being taught to the populace. 1. If I can't make my mortgage payment, the government will help me out; there's programs for that now. Besides, I might as well enjoy this cool boat for a summer or 2. 2. I might win some money, have a good time, and get married; besides those grants are free and I can take out some of those "interest free" loans. *** In other words the government is using the M.O. of pimps and drug dealers, give ya some for free, get ya hooked, then force ya to keep needing them to support yer habit. If you try to talk back or disclose your disapproval, you are told to shut up and sit down or called an extremist or just beat down with whatever is within reach. To answer the main question of this thread: President Obama is one of the most charismatic speakers to come along in a very long time. His speeches are generally very well crafted and polished. I would say that he is an intelligent man. The problem is I think that it is more booksmarts than streetsmarts, so there is a disconnect where the rubber hits the road. By this I mean, he (and his administration save David Axelrod) has no experience in the private sector, they have never run a business. This administration seems to be pretty good at coming up with strategy based on theory but loses its way when it comes to putting it into practice. Take the TARP money (taxpayer cash and that which has been paid back), while the Congress gave almost a blank check towards buying up the tainted assets, it did not give any permissions for the repayment funds. Those funds are supposed to go back into the treasury, preferrably to repay the debt, until Congress decides what those funds are to be spent on. This administration has taken the Bush initiative to keep trying to sieze even more power from the other 2 branches, and run with it. It is a well thought out calculated risk, basicly an end run around the Constitution. So I would say yes he is as smart as reputed, he knows just enough to be dangerous. P.S. Sorry about the rant.

thompsonx -> RE: Is Obama really as smart as he's reputed to be? (2/5/2010 4:50:20 PM)
quote: To answer your questions, I will do so from the mindset that is being taught to the populace. 1. If I can't make my mortgage payment, the government will help me out; there's programs for that now. Besides, I might as well enjoy this cool boat for a summer or 2. 2. I might win some money, have a good time, and get married; besides those grants are free and I can take out some of those "interest free" loans. How about you answer my question from your own point of view instead of some made up position that exists only in your mind. I asked a really simple fucking question "Why is it a good idea to ..." Now if you can't come up with a good reason to blow your money in Vegas when you need it for necisities then for fucks sake why are you ragging on the president for saying it's a bad idea?

Brain -> RE: Is Obama really as smart as he's reputed to be? (2/5/2010 4:57:32 PM)
If Obama doesn't get healthcare done he's a moron and he and his party will pay a price.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Is Obama really as smart as he's reputed to be? (2/5/2010 5:05:26 PM)
quote: So I would say yes he is as smart as reputed, he knows just enough to be dangerous. P.S. Sorry about the rant. Thadius, Thank you! Very much appreciate and respect your input. Someone else contacted me direct about this thread and added another thought to ponder. Obama talks and acts like an 'activist' which is pragmatically what he was except for his tenure as a Senator where his primary focus was preparing to run for President. That ability served him well to get elected, but since then didn't serve him to generate results. An activist knows how to motivate and generate an environment for change; but few, if any, have the ability to affect change. The skill set necessary to organize and mobilize people is a lot different than the analytical skills and implementation strategy required for the job of President. The "yeah but what about..." exception I gave was Reagan. I think he has similar oratory and mobilization skills but, like or hate them, he was able to implement policy. The distinction between the two may be the point you touched upon. Reagan had much more experienced people in his Administration who knew how to effectively get things down in Washington. It could be said they used Reagan's oratory skills to verbalize, and many times rationalize, their goals which were sold to the people in the same nature as TV commercials. His speeches were issue 'Infomercials'. What better person to be the front man and spokesperson than an actor - Ronald Reagan? The results are telling. Reagan implemented change without having the filibuster proof plurality Obama enjoyed until yesterday. It may not be about the man in the office. It may be about the staff. What do you think?

Thadius -> RE: Is Obama really as smart as he's reputed to be? (2/5/2010 5:10:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: To answer your questions, I will do so from the mindset that is being taught to the populace. 1. If I can't make my mortgage payment, the government will help me out; there's programs for that now. Besides, I might as well enjoy this cool boat for a summer or 2. 2. I might win some money, have a good time, and get married; besides those grants are free and I can take out some of those "interest free" loans. How about you answer my question from your own point of view instead of some made up position that exists only in your mind. I asked a really simple fucking question "Why is it a good idea to ..." Now if you can't come up with a good reason to blow your money in Vegas when you need it for necisities then for fucks sake why are you ragging on the president for saying it's a bad idea? I understand now, we get to dictate in what manner our questions are answered by others. Very cool. If you are not bright enough to understand what I wrote and understand the sarcasm in it, I suggest you probably wouldn't be able to understand me explaining it more from my point of view. Secondly, if you think that the entitlement mentality is something that exists only in my mind, you are really disconnected from what is going on around the country. I guess you missed the droves of folks lining up for "Obama money", numerous times this past year? Or the part of the State of the Union addressing paying for college? That should make for an interesting entitlement. Finally, I could care less if somebody wants to go blow their life savings in Vegas or on crack. It is the hypocrisy that the President talks about everybody needing to tighten their belts and not spend more than they make, while continuing the out of control spending habits of the government. I mean afterall, doesn't that money they are spending in D.C. belong to us? These discussions would probably go much better if you stuck to discussing the topic, and not getting into the personal attack game. Then again what do I know?

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Is Obama really as smart as he's reputed to be? (2/5/2010 5:13:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: So I would say yes he is as smart as reputed, he knows just enough to be dangerous. P.S. Sorry about the rant. Thadius, Thank you! Very much appreciate and respect your input. Someone else contacted me direct about this thread and added another thought to ponder. Obama talks and acts like an 'activist' which is pragmatically what he was except for his tenure as a Senator where his primary focus was preparing to run for President. That ability served him well to get elected, but since then didn't serve him to generate results. An activist knows how to motivate and generate an environment for change; but few, if any, have the ability to affect change. The skill set necessary to organize and mobilize people is a lot different than the analytical skills and implementation strategy required for the job of President. The "yeah but what about..." exception I gave was Reagan. I think he has similar oratory and mobilization skills but, like or hate them, he was able to implement policy. The distinction between the two may be the point you touched upon. Reagan had much more experienced people in his Administration who knew how to effectively get things down in Washington. It could be said they used Reagan's oratory skills to verbalize, and many times rationalize, their goals which were sold to the people in the same nature as TV commercials. His speeches were issue 'Infomercials'. What better person to be the front man and spokesperson than an actor - Ronald Reagan? The results are telling. Reagan implemented change without having the filibuster proof plurality Obama enjoyed until yesterday. It may not be about the man in the office. It may be about the staff. What do you think? Either way reflects on his intelligence. If its his staff, he wasnt smart enough to pick better staff. And of course we know that from the quality of the people who have had to resign.

Thadius -> RE: Is Obama really as smart as he's reputed to be? (2/5/2010 5:31:51 PM)
Evening Merc, I do believe many of the failures or the lack of success does lie at the feet of his staff. Raum Emanuel was hand picked because he knew his way around the DC in crowds, he was supposed to know how to get things done. Many other folks were picked because of their political ties back home. I know quite a few of these folks from my time working for a Cook County Commissioner. My best guess is they are shaking their heads in the back rooms, saying "WTF, we have a majority, this should be a slamdunk." As that is the way things seem to work back home. Many of them counted on President Obama's charisma to be able to smooth out the wrinkles and carry the agenda to the finish line. Perhaps, hubris is to blame? It is becoming more obvious that they haven't studied the history of the presidency, or they just don't care about the lessons to be learned. They are marching right down the checklist of things that came up in '93, and it doesn't look like they are going to do as President Clinton did; move toward the middle. Most around here probably wouldn't admit it, but Clinton became the most effective when he was forced to become more moderate because of the '94 mid-terms. As an aside: Somebody needs to work with the president on certain words when reading from the teleprompter. Like the pronunciation of corpsman, it is not pronunced corpseman. Nit-picky? Yep, but what's good for the goose and all of that... I have left the other gaffs slide.

kittinSol -> RE: Is Obama really as smart as he's reputed to be? (2/5/2010 5:36:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Thadius I have left the other gaffes slide. :-)

Thadius -> RE: Is Obama really as smart as he's reputed to be? (2/5/2010 5:47:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol quote: ORIGINAL: Thadius I have left the other gaffes slide. :-) Thanks for the correction, and for your always insightful input. [;)]

tazzygirl -> RE: Is Obama really as smart as he's reputed to be? (2/5/2010 6:06:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eyesopened quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife quote: ORIGINAL: eyesopened Thank you. I'm glad the link you provided cleared up my misconception that the coffee had been placed between the legs and not between the knees and that it was held between the knees (not the crotch) in order to add condiments, not while driving. This fact made McDonalds 80% at fault for having hot coffee. Thank you for providing me the facts. I accept responsibility for my error and will not repeat it. Fuck. Uh yeah, ok. So I guess you are also going to be dismissive of the fact McDonalds had 700 previous complaints about the coffee being too hot, the fact that any food served at that temperature would cause instantaneous severe burns, that there were previous suits settled out-of-court over the same issue, and the fact that a jury awarded a large settlement which was reduced but still amounted to nearly a half million dollars. Since you decided my post had no other merit other than my error re the McDonalds case.... yeah, I'm being dismissive because it is my job as a consumer to do due dilligence and even I can feel through the styrofoam that the coffee is hot, really, really, hot and I do not see that as a potential payday. Your insistance in pursuing this thread derailment simply proves the other part of my post, that we have become a society of Not My Fault and a generation of Finger Pointers. Fuck. As people age, their perceptions of hot/cold change. Many cannot tell something is too hot until it has already burned them. Feelings in the fingers diminish, making the heat through the styrofoam. Not meaning to derail or argue the point... just pointing out a medical fact that seems to be in error.

MrMister -> RE: Is Obama really as smart as he's reputed to be? (2/5/2010 6:16:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Thadius he (and his administration save David Axelrod) has no experience in the private sector, they have never run a business. You're not the only one to notice this Thadius. http://www.forbes.com/2009/11/24/michael-cembalest-obama-business-beltway-cabinet.html

subrob1967 -> RE: Is Obama really as smart as he's reputed to be? (2/5/2010 7:17:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife No, what you need are analytical skills and the ability to think logical It is not about rote memorization and forming what you call opinions, it is about making an argument based on codified law and legal precedent. Liberals don't think logically, they think emotionally, if they thought logically, they would realize that they're spending way too much money on failed "social" programs.

AnimusRex -> RE: Is Obama really as smart as he's reputed to be? (2/5/2010 7:39:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 Liberals don't think logically, they think emotionally, if they thought logically, they would realize that they're spending way too much money on failed "social" programs. Really. How much do you think we are spending on "social" programs? http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3048426

vincentML -> RE: Is Obama really as smart as he's reputed to be? (2/5/2010 8:01:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth Obama talks and acts like an 'activist' which is pragmatically what he was except for his tenure as a Senator where his primary focus was preparing to run for President. That ability served him well to get elected, but since then didn't serve him to generate results. An activist knows how to motivate and generate an environment for change; but few, if any, have the ability to affect change. The skill set necessary to organize and mobilize people is a lot different than the analytical skills and implementation strategy required for the job of President. I am surprised that you have such high expectations of the powers of the presidency to analyze, motivate and implement policies in this government. You completely ignore the role of Congress as an equal branch of government. More importantly you ignore the egregious role the Republicans and bluedog Democrates have played with stalling and blocking tactics. Perhaps they serve an important function in blocking the imperial presidency through each member satisfying his own selfish agenda. I offer the example of Sen Shelby who is currently blocking Senate approval of Obama's 70 appointees because he (Shelby) is in a snit for not receiving certain earmark legislation for his state (Alabama, I believe). My intent here is not to debate the proper or historic roles of the Administrative vs the Legislative Branches of the govt. My point is that from the very outset of this thread you have set up a disengenuous strawman by your OP focusing on Obama's Presidential ability using the guise of remarks he made about LV. You reveal your bias by quoting approvingly the paragraph above from a direct message. You reveal that your real interest is not the LV comments but the efficacy of the President and his staff, which you include as an afterthought. Finally, to Thadius, I find it amusing that he thinks "Obama is smart enough to be dangerous." Listen. The black heliocoptors are circling even now. Beware the dark man with the strange foreign name who aspires to be socialist dictator. It's a joke that you give respect to Thadius' paranoid comment. My contention in rebuttal is that you should be concerned about the efficacy of both branches of government and their inability to function together. The Republicans and conservative Dems have clearly made a political calculation to oppose the President for the benefit of their own tenures. The fat cats up on Capitol Hill are fucking us and you do not even consider it. Nor are you concerned. Your OP focuses only on the one branch of a dysfunctional govt and lay all the blame there. Reagan and the Democrat Congress of 1980 were of a different time and milieu. You are comparing apples to oranges when you do not know the motivations of the players involved or how they were organized. If you seek a weak leader to point your finger at today, I suggest a better candidate is the Majority Leader of the Senate, Harry Reid.

Thadius -> RE: Is Obama really as smart as he's reputed to be? (2/5/2010 8:24:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML Finally, to Thadius, I find it amusing that he thinks "Obama is smart enough to be dangerous." Listen. The black heliocoptors are circling even now. Beware the dark man with the strange foreign name who aspires to be socialist dictator. It's a joke that you give respect to Thadius' paranoid comment. My contention in rebuttal is that you should be concerned about the efficacy of both branches of government and their inability to function together. The Republicans and conservative Dems have clearly made a political calculation to oppose the President for the benefit of their own tenures. The fat cats up on Capitol Hill are fucking us and you do not even consider it. Nor are you concerned. Your OP focuses only on the one branch of a dysfunctional govt and lay all the blame there. Reagan and the Democrat Congress of 1980 were of a different time and milieu. You are comparing apples to oranges when you do not know the motivations of the players involved or how they were organized. If you seek a weak leader to point your finger at today, I suggest a better candidate is the Majority Leader of the Senate, Harry Reid. Thanks for the insight. I didn't realize that I had become a fringe element of the country. I shall have to remember that. I find it funny that out of my entire set of comments in this topic, that one phrase is the one you choose to base your commentary of my views on. If you look at the full context of my remarks in that post, you will see that it is not meant as some sort of conspiracy theory, just that he has no practical knowledge of how to implement (or have implemented) his policies. His personal experiences in Chicago and Illinois politics, don't include consensus making, it is one of almost straight party line voting. You speak of my paranoia, how would you describe your description of the political driveby, that it was all about revenge, and couldn't possibly be about the contents of the bill. Clinton and the Republican Congress of 1995-2000 seem to be of a different time as well. I do agree with you about the President mostly being a figurehead for whatever party they belong to. This can be seen easily in the last election cycle, as most folks forgot that we had a Democrat Congress during the last 2 years of Bush. I will ignore the other insinuations in your remarks directed at me. Have a great night, Thadius

rulemylife -> RE: Is Obama really as smart as he's reputed to be? (2/5/2010 9:34:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eyesopened Since you decided my post had no other merit other than my error re the McDonalds case.... yeah, I'm being dismissive because it is my job as a consumer to do due dilligence and even I can feel through the styrofoam that the coffee is hot, really, really, hot and I do not see that as a potential payday. Your insistance in pursuing this thread derailment simply proves the other part of my post, that we have become a society of Not My Fault and a generation of Finger Pointers. Fuck. I'm derailing? You were the one who brought up this case to back your rant about personal responsibility, which I see you are still ranting about. But let's talk about due diligence. The reason we have liability laws and government agencies like the FDA and FAA is because it is unreasonable to expect the consumer to take on the responsibility of investigating every product or service they purchase to ensure that the product is safe. As far as the McDonald's case, the coffee was being served at 180 degrees by corporate policy. Go take a look at your hot water tank. You'll find the thermostat set probably between 120 and 130 degrees. Serving at 180 degrees was deemed to be negligent by a jury and supported by the trial judge. Yet this case has become a false symbol of frivolous suits spread by those who haven't read the transcript and the history of it. McDonald's settled a number of previous lawsuits regarding the same issue. She only initially asked for $11k for medical expenses and the company refused. It is pretty obvious they would have been far better off keeping this out of court. The jury awarded $200k in compensatory damages and $2.7 million in punitive damages, a decision the judge agreed with but the amount was reduced to $640k and a then an undisclosed settlement was reached. As I said earlier, this has become an urban myth promoted by those who advocate tort reform, and too many people buy into it without knowing, or caring, about the details of the case. You say we have become a society of "not my fault" but I think we have become a society of whatever I hear I believe if it fits my preconceived ideas. By the way, is that "fuck" that you put at the end of your posts an exclamation or an invitation? If you are interested in the full history: And Now, The Rest Of The Story . . . About The McDonald's Coffee ...

subtee -> RE: Is Obama really as smart as he's reputed to be? (2/5/2010 9:38:30 PM)
Blah. So much deleterious smack down that has nothing to do with anything except posturing and trying to explicate our own set-in-stone viewpoints. I believe (and he'll correct me if I'm wrong, I hope) what Merc was positing goes like this: Vegas epitomizes capitalism. Obama the socialist hates capitalism. Therefore, Obama hates Vegas. It's a viewpoint. I can't get my mind around someone believing such a thing, so no point in "whipping out our penises." (penni?)

AnimusRex -> RE: Is Obama really as smart as he's reputed to be? (2/5/2010 9:48:15 PM)
it is "Penii" and if you had one, I would find that rather discouraging.

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