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A question for submissives with attitude (and anyone el... - 2/3/2010 9:01:01 PM   
SternFather


Posts: 32
Joined: 4/21/2006
Status: offline 		This is hard to even articulate.... For those of you that did not meet your Dom through a site or personal ad telling them that you were a submissive in the lifestyle, (sorry, "a sub" sounds less than worthy of ownership to me and why would I own anything not worth owning?) how did you let them know? How did/does the topic come up?

I realize that communication is the key in any kind of successful relationship, but how would I know if the woman full of spirit and attitude I am speaking with is actually a submissive unless she tells me?

Even if you thought I was attractive but didn't know me very well it doesn't sound like a topic that would come up in normal conversation. At least it's never come up in any of my conversations.




< Message edited by SternFather -- 2/3/2010 9:03:20 PM >
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RE: A question for subs with attitude (and anyone else ... - 2/3/2010 9:04:19 PM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline 		Well...once you meet in a vanilla setting, like my ex and I did, you determine chemistry.

Once that is established, you can lead into a discussion. In my case, I told him after we slept together the first time and said, listen, I have something to tell you, but if you are not into it, it's cool (because we had great vanilla sex).

I told him and his eyes lit up. He had never done it before (much younger than me) and he took to being a Dom like a duck to water.

It helped that he was a cop so he already had the handcuffs. :)

(in reply to SternFather)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: A question for subs with attitude (and anyone else ... - 2/3/2010 9:18:03 PM   
lucylucy


Posts: 612
Joined: 3/1/2009
Status: offline 		I had a situation kind of like sexyred's, only mine didn't end as well. I was dating a guy and we had great vanilla sex. I had never tried any BDSM stuff, but knew I wanted to. I told him and his reaction was exceedingly lukewarm, and things ended shortly after that.

My point is that one of you has to bring it up. It may not come up in "normal conversations"--so what. Bring it up yourself if she doesn't.

_____________________________

“There are those who give with joy, & that joy is their reward.” Gibran / "Those who are willing to be vulnerable move among mysteries." Roethke / "Let the beauty we love be what we do. There are hundreds of ways to kneel & kiss the ground." Rumi

(in reply to sexyred1)
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RE: A question for subs with attitude (and anyone else ... - 2/3/2010 9:39:18 PM   
CalifChick


Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline 		You could always ask if she's ever heard the term "power exchange relationship".

Cali


_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

(in reply to lucylucy)
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RE: A question for subs with attitude (and anyone else ... - 2/3/2010 9:40:34 PM   
SternFather


Posts: 32
Joined: 4/21/2006
Status: offline 		Well let me ask you, is there a line in the sand, so to speak, where you retain control? It's a tough question for me to know how to ask. Are there elements of your life that your Dom requires you to retain control over, like getting your own kids to the dentist on time if you have them, or are you expected to put him first in every aspect?

Maybe I'm just too new to understand, but I hold women in very high regard. Even as the submissive you retain ultimate control over the relationship by the mere fact that you can walk away at any time. Your submission to me is very valuable to me and I cherish it for the valuable gift it is. But say I am in a vanilla swirl relationship with a woman that has expressed submissive tendencies to me in the bedroom but at the same time told me that she could never "owned" by anyone because of events in her past, or for any reason? Is this a game and something I am supposed to ignore or do I take it at face value?(sorry, I obviously pulled that one out of my past and I'm still just trying to get my head around things)

I'm having a hard time with role play versus lifestyle I think is the crux and need some markers I can look for.

(in reply to sexyred1)
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RE: A question for subs with attitude (and anyone else ... - 2/3/2010 9:48:12 PM   
innocenttemptres


Posts: 2
Joined: 2/3/2010
Status: offline 		With me, it was completely natural in even a vanilla setting. I have a nack for bringing up interesting topics without people thinking much about them -- once they've gotten to know me.

The way that the subject came up with my last Top was fun. We were in a gaming group together (Dungeons and Dragons) and we got to chatting about various things... He told me sternly but nicely, "You keep hiding your face, put your hair back." He meant it merely to be a request but the chemistry between the two of us automatically led him to take the dominant role. I plainly took the submissive role and did as he asked. On the porch that night, he and I were talking about a couple of various topics and I brought up an old boyfriend of mine who had tried to utterly dominate me but it didn't work because my personality fought back against it. That was all the cue he needed to work into talking back to me about BDSM. I was extremely new to it at that point because when I person tried and didn't succeed...they didn't try again. He was the first and only to successfully manage it.

Try some sort of precurser to the topic of this lifestyle. Bring it up in a side-glancing manner to see if it's picked up on and if it is, then cool. If not, then try something more direct without being out-and-out-completely-blunt.... blunt is sometimes a good approach but, for me, doesn't often work.

It's whatever feels most natural to you, the chemistry between you and the other person, and how the situation feels. Pay attention to how your body reacts to the environment you're considering bringing it up in, it'll clue you in on a few other factors that you wouldn't normally pick up on if you merely went about it with your head.

~InnocentTemptress

(in reply to lucylucy)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: A question for subs with attitude (and anyone else ... - 2/3/2010 9:55:40 PM   
CalifChick


Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SternFather

Well let me ask you, is there a line in the sand, so to speak, where you retain control? It's a tough question for me to know how to ask. Are there elements of your life that your Dom requires you to retain control over, like getting your own kids to the dentist on time if you have them, or are you expected to put him first in every aspect?


Things like that tend to develop over time as you get to know each other, and it comes up in discussion over time.  Submission (to me) is not a like a lightswitch that you suddenly turn on for someone.  It grows gradually.  I have not met anyone since I left my marriage (going on 4 years now) that did not expect me to keep complete control and care over my own children.


quote:

Maybe I'm just too new to understand, but I hold women in very high regard. Even as the submissive you retain ultimate control over the relationship by the mere fact that you can walk away at any time.


Pull her down off that pedestal, you're going to give her a nosebleed.  No one person has "ultimate" control in the relationship, as both parties can walk at any time. 


quote:

Your submission to me is very valuable to me and I cherish it for the valuable gift it is. But say I am in a vanilla swirl relationship with a woman that has expressed submissive tendencies to me in the bedroom but at the same time told me that she could never "owned" by anyone because of events in her past, or for any reason?


If that's okay with you, then that's okay.  I would think I would open up an avenue of communication where you ask her what it means to her to be owned, what negative aspects is she speaking of, if she is traumatized then encourage her to get therapy, etc.  She's basically giving you that cliche, "I've been hurt in the past"... I've got news... that's crap.  I don't know anyone over the age of legal voting that hasn't been hurt at some point.  She can build a bridge and get over it, or she can continue to punish her current and/or future partner for the sins of the someone else from the past.

quote:


I'm having a hard time with role play versus lifestyle I think is the crux and need some markers I can look for.



Oy.  I don't think you're going to get your hands on a bootleg copy of "The Real and True Subbies Handbook". 

Cali


_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

(in reply to SternFather)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: A question for subs with attitude (and anyone else ... - 2/3/2010 10:00:31 PM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline 		How mant times do we have to give sound advice like professional therapy before I can suggest something silly like,
Beat her senseless until she responds the way you want or . . .
Trap her in a cage, gag her so you don't have to listen to her troubles and she'll fuck you for food & water or . . .
. . . ok, get professional therapy.


_____________________________

-=BDSM Book List=- Reading is Fundamental !!!
I give good thread.

(in reply to CalifChick)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: A question for subs with attitude (and anyone else ... - 2/3/2010 10:00:45 PM   
Exploratorynfun


Posts: 26
Joined: 1/19/2010
Status: offline 		I am still new to this myself, however this is something I have always wanted to do, so I brought up the subject and he was more then happy to take control. If she is showing tendencies of being sub, bring the conversation up and see where it goes. As for my kids I always have complete control and my Master completely understands the mother in me. Good Luck

(in reply to CalifChick)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: A question for subs with attitude (and anyone else ... - 2/3/2010 10:03:11 PM   
innocenttemptres


Posts: 2
Joined: 2/3/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SternFather

Well let me ask you, is there a line in the sand, so to speak, where you retain control? It's a tough question for me to know how to ask. Are there elements of your life that your Dom requires you to retain control over, like getting your own kids to the dentist on time if you have them, or are you expected to put him first in every aspect?


If there are children, the submissive (no matter what) is required to disreguard their master's orders that directly contradict the law in that matter. If it poses any sort of threat to children or may constitute abuse to them, it cannot be obeyed legally, ethically, or morally. And if you (or another dom) is truly a human being with an understanding of the world, you (or they, whoever) will not pose orders that endanger or constitute the abuse of the child or children. Other than that, it's acceptable and, dependant on the dom, expected to be subservient in all other manners.

quote:


Maybe I'm just too new to understand, but I hold women in very high regard. Even as the submissive you retain ultimate control over the relationship by the mere fact that you can walk away at any time.


Not to mention safe words during play. If your slave is about to collapse or break, you need to respect them. So safe words allow safety and still a smidge of control.

quote:


Your submission to me is very valuable to me and I cherish it for the valuable gift it is. But say I am in a vanilla swirl relationship with a woman that has expressed submissive tendencies to me in the bedroom but at the same time told me that she could never "owned" by anyone because of events in her past, or for any reason?


You should talk with that person and see if there are any issues that they would like help resolving. Try to be understanding while you dig for clues as to why they are not open to try it with someone new who will treasure their wishes (etc.)...which, from the sounds of it, you would.

quote:


Is this a game and something I am supposed to ignore or do I take it at face value?(sorry, I obviously pulled that one out of my past and I'm still just trying to get my head around things)


You need to take it at face value until you have a reason to believe it may be something else. Probe a little, dig a little, be understanding and make sure not to hurt them because it will sometimes make them close off to the idea more. If they like to be humiliated and emotionally tortured, then that's another story but these are things you will either feel out through getting to know them, or have to have conversations over.

I, generally and this could just be me, would not just ignore something that someone said to me. I would try to look at it and evaluate it for what it was and how it was meant... if there are any questions, I'm not shy about asking.

(in reply to SternFather)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: A question for subs with attitude (and anyone else ... - 2/3/2010 10:24:14 PM   
SternFather


Posts: 32
Joined: 4/21/2006
Status: offline 		Well, again, I'm new here, and I'm new to the idea that submissives are totally normal. They know what they want, they are not "damaged goods" even if they may have experienced truamatic events. My problem is the relationships I have had, have always been with women that WERE damaged goods and even though they seemed to want to submit there was something holding them back and it ended up causing a breakdown of communication that evetually ended the relationship. From my experience EVERY woman is damaged goods, and that is not meant as a crack at women as much as it is a reflection of the choices I made. And since I want to break that cycle I am just trying to get points of view.

It's like being in that episode of the twilight zone where the really ugly kid gets sent to live on another planet only to find that on that planet he is really hot. I've been in a vanilla world and didn't know there were other flavors that were acceptable choices.

And  past is past, I'm looking at moving forward.

That was kind of cryptic, It's late for me and I'm tired.

< Message edited by SternFather -- 2/3/2010 10:29:00 PM >

(in reply to innocenttemptres)
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RE: A question for subs with attitude (and anyone else ... - 2/3/2010 10:33:59 PM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SternFather

Well, again, I'm new here, and I'm new to the idea that submissives are totally normal. They know what they want, they are not "damaged goods" even if they may have experienced truamatic events. My problem is the relationships I have had, have always been with women that WERE damaged goods and even though they seemed to want to submit there was something holding them back and it ended up causing a breakdown of communication that evetually ended the relationship. From my experience EVERY woman is damaged goods, and that is not meant as a crack at women as much as it is a reflection of the choices I made. And since I want to break that cycle I am just trying to get points of view.

It's like being in that episode of the twilight zone where the really ugly kid gets sent to live on another planet only to find that on that planet he is really hot. I've been in a vanilla world and didn't know there were other flavors that were acceptable choices.

And  past is past, I'm looking at moving forward.

That was kind of cryptic, It's late for me and I'm tired.



Those bolded lines are your problem right there. Cali said it best. You have been with the wrong women. While we all have been hurt in the past, most of us are smart enough and self aware enough to get over it and get into new relationships.

Don't make this so difficult with pre conceived notions of what subs should be like, when you approach us as if we were interchangeable, you are dead before you start.

(in reply to SternFather)
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RE: A question for subs with attitude (and anyone else ... - 2/3/2010 10:38:10 PM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

How mant times do we have to give sound advice like professional therapy before I can suggest something silly like,
Beat her senseless until she responds the way you want or . . .
Trap her in a cage, gag her so you don't have to listen to her troubles and she'll fuck you for food & water or . . .
. . . ok, get professional therapy.



Silly?? Effective, yes, silly no.

(in reply to ResidentSadist)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: A question for submissives with attitude (and anyon... - 2/3/2010 11:14:04 PM   
MasterSlaveLA


Posts: 3991
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SternFather

...how did you let them know? How did/does the topic come up?



The doggie collar and horsetail butt plug gave it away!



_____________________________

It's only kinky the first time!!!

(in reply to SternFather)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: A question for submissives with attitude (and anyon... - 2/4/2010 12:31:40 AM   
spragueA


Posts: 24
Joined: 8/24/2005
Status: offline 		Great thread, SternFather! Thanks for posting/starting a topic that includes this delicate matter. I appreciate your voice of opinion and your viewpoint.

Evidently, we all come from different backgrounds and experiences. IMO, that is what makes this community so diverse and powerful. We call 'em as we see it!

I disagree with those who say, "Just ask", and that whole open line of communications will magically burst wide open. On the other hand, I disagree with those who say "Tell 'em up front and make a safeword quickly'.

When you are trying to develope a d/s relationship - there's no such thing as a TOTAL power exchange.

Sorry, realistically it doesn't work out that way. It is innate for us, as a human race, to reject Totalitism in any form : ).  And if it does happen, you are confronted with the choice to run like hell or count your many blessings, LOL.

In truth...well...MY truth: you either scare off a newby whom you might have loved until You died or you miss out on being the brunt end of all the brutal jokes we experienced in kindergarten. This lifestyle isn't for the faint of heart nor the weak. It takes guts, fortitude, understanding and great patience.

Basically, the choice is YOURS. Long ago, when I was still vanilla, I had a gentleman tell Me that he wanted to take Me slowly. Take me he did... Took me to places I had never been before. And that was after My very long termed marriage!

He, a toppy-submissive, subliminally showed Me how to Top a man/woman/life/love/situations, etc....

Not ALL men/people are willing to spend a little time and patience, but, once You do, you will have never known the greatest rewards of true devotion that exist in a D/s relationship. I promise you that much. Just make sure you don't cross any boundries set forth, especially with offspring! Dangerous territory there, mister.

What you have in your hands is a lump of clay. Consider Yourself a potter and mold your beloved well, while taking into consideration all that are involved.

I wish you well. Most of all...have fun with harm to none!

BTW, welcome to the C.Me forums, newby! : ) There's lots of wisdom on this board. I read more than I post.

~Miss Mafia


(in reply to SternFather)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: A question for submissives with attitude (and anyon... - 2/4/2010 12:40:49 AM   
spragueA


Posts: 24
Joined: 8/24/2005
Status: offline 		Familiarize Youself with 'keywords' and use them frequently in everyday conversations.

You'll find more about your true nature than you learn about others.

Good Luck!

(in reply to SternFather)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: A question for submissives with attitude (and anyon... - 2/4/2010 1:11:29 AM   
peppermint


Posts: 5169
Joined: 10/18/2005
From: Montana
Status: offline 		It was all very easy.  We met an event.  This event was a week long kinky campout in the woods.  We didn't need a special word or secret handshake.   We were all at the event to have a fun kinky weekend and learn some new things.  

(in reply to SternFather)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: A question for submissives with attitude (and anyon... - 2/4/2010 1:24:49 AM   
allthatjaz


Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
Status: offline 		Relate a story... make it indirect

I went out for coffee with a vanilla male friend the other day who knows nothing about my lifestyle. I was telling him about my asshole of a boss and how cross I was about certain behavior. I was at a general meeting in the afternoon and I teasingly told my friend that I was going home to get my vamp outfit and my whip so that I could walk into the meeting and sort him out properly. My friend went red, then he went redder, then he couldn't concentrate on anything else I said. He eventually melted into a puddle on the floor!!

I have done this before quite by deliberate accident! I used to work in an office full of men and the clown of the office was a really cute guy that I secretly fancied. One day he was late and pulled up in front of the boss, I asked him when he came back in if he had been a naughty boy and been spanked. He caught me on my own at coffee break and asked me if I was into that sort of stuff. I said 'you tell me?'. We went on to have a sub Domme relationship for the next six months. It was really handy as he did all my mail merge for me and I have always hated mail merge

I would never directly ask because to do that you have to out yourself.

_____________________________

S&M (Steve and Maria) persona libre de convencionalismos


Fan of edgeplay.co.uk

(in reply to spragueA)
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RE: A question for submissives with attitude (and anyon... - 2/4/2010 1:41:55 AM   
WestBaySlave


Posts: 501
Joined: 9/24/2008
Status: offline 		I have a hard time getting people who know me online to believe I'm submissive. Usually spending time together real-time dispels that concern.

(in reply to allthatjaz)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: A question for submissives with attitude (and anyon... - 2/4/2010 4:08:23 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		If someone says the bedroom is as far as they are willing to go, believe them. It is the height of arrogance to assume you know what she 'really' wants and that no means yes.

Beyond that, if you're the dominant then you lead the way. You can say that you like a woman who doesn't argue about everything but is happy to go to the restaurant you want to go to, allow you to pick the movie, and in general allows you to take the lead. If she says that isn't her cup of tea, then she isn't interested.

Don't sit around hoping she'll volunteer the info. Ask her.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to WestBaySlave)
Profile   Post #: 20
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