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RE: A question for submissives with attitude (and anyon... - 2/4/2010 4:26:23 AM   
xxblushesxx


Posts: 9318
Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		Most of us have areas of our lives in which we are expected to have, if not autonomy, then...common sense and to use it. You see, we are not "just" subs, but mothers, business women, wives, daughters and a whole bunch of other stuff that requires us to wear other hats.

My Master doesn't expect to have to micro-manage my life, therefor, there are lots of things I control from day to day. Ymmv.

_____________________________

~Christina

A nice girl with a disturbing hobby

My femdom findom blog: http://www.MistressAvarice.com


(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: A question for submissives with attitude (and anyon... - 2/4/2010 5:28:55 AM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

Relate a story... make it indirect

I went out for coffee with a vanilla male friend the other day who knows nothing about my lifestyle. I was telling him about my asshole of a boss and how cross I was about certain behavior. I was at a general meeting in the afternoon and I teasingly told my friend that I was going home to get my vamp outfit and my whip so that I could walk into the meeting and sort him out properly. My friend went red, then he went redder, then he couldn't concentrate on anything else I said. He eventually melted into a puddle on the floor!!

I have done this before quite by deliberate accident! I used to work in an office full of men and the clown of the office was a really cute guy that I secretly fancied. One day he was late and pulled up in front of the boss, I asked him when he came back in if he had been a naughty boy and been spanked. He caught me on my own at coffee break and asked me if I was into that sort of stuff. I said 'you tell me?'. We went on to have a sub Domme relationship for the next six months. It was really handy as he did all my mail merge for me and I have always hated mail merge

I would never directly ask because to do that you have to out yourself.


OP ive quoted allthatjaz, cos its bang on target -

it was always the guys who have said to me playfully 'you need youre bottom spanked' that have ended up being the most fun in a relationship - but that was well before id even heard of Ds or BDSM. whenever that was said or similar id blush and squirm and giggle a bit, got all tongue tied and giggly and then they knew theyd found a kindred spirit.

but, as i said i didnt know or understand about Ds and once a guy did try to Dominate me, i realised much later after reading it all up on the net. the thing was he came at me too fast, took my freedoms away too quickly and didnt explain what he wanted from me. i was 21, new to london and wanted to party and fling myself into the whole exciting thing of independent life. the kink was fun and i wanted more of that, i was submissive as ive always been but the way he did it made me rebel and it all got a bit heavy in the end.

so, just a quiet word of caution really. if you do find a woman who is receptive to you, take the Ds gently, slowly, integrate it gradually and have her read up on stuff, explain what youre hoping for - be completely open once youve established that she's cooperative.

im sure that if that guy had done that i would have been more receptive. at the time i just found his curfews and rules confusing and i got resentful.

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to allthatjaz)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: A question for submissives with attitude (and anyon... - 2/4/2010 6:14:53 AM   
SternFather


Posts: 32
Joined: 4/21/2006
Status: offline 		This has been a lot of great information. I grew up with the idea being drilled into my head almost daily that not only are you are not allowed to "hurt" girls, but also, they don't like it. And if they don't like it, its bad. That's it, no if's ands or buts. Added to that,  90% of my supervisors and managers over the years were women, and obviously in a position of authority over me. It wasn't unitl my last partner (so the last two years) that I recognized my dominant tendencies for what they were.  

Apparently I have been a victim of the propaganda machine (and so have the women I have been with). There ARE ifs, there ARE ands, and there ARE buts and I don't have to feel guilty about enjoying and enchouraging my dominant side.

Good stuff for me.

(in reply to lally2)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: A question for submissives with attitude (and anyon... - 2/4/2010 6:21:45 AM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline

have fun.

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to SternFather)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: A question for submissives with attitude (and anyon... - 2/4/2010 6:23:49 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I met my first dominant online in a political chatroom. We became friends. I started to have a crush on him after about a year, he had been just chatting with the same group as me. Then when we both determined that we had an attraction he asked me if I considered myself a dominant or a submissive when it came to intimate relationships... without even blinking an eye I said "submissive" because of certain past experiences I have had....

He just plain ole asked me bluntly....

And I just plain answered....

So began my journey into the darkside


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to SternFather)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: A question for submissives with attitude (and anyon... - 2/4/2010 6:28:18 AM   
lizi


Posts: 4673
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline 		First of all hang out around here in the forums and you'll learn a lot. I have. It just helps getting familiar with things to begin to understand more of what you want and how to go about it all in general.

Secondly, I found out about BDSM from a relationship that started out vanilla. He was an arrogant bastard lol which I knew up front but he gradually brought up topics in conversations about how he liked being in control and having things his way. Which struck a chord with me and I liked it and asked more questions. It was a general type of uncovering. Things between us didn't last but after that I realized that I wanted D/s as a part of any future relationship so at that point instead of looking on vanilla dating sites i found CM and looked for a partner here. I figured it was easier starting out without having to have the type of conversation you're talking about. That it would be nice to know I had common ground with someone in this area at least and then I could find out if we meshed in other areas as well. So I guess you can start with D/s as a given and approach women on sites such as this or in real life at munches or play parties, or you can start with a vanilla site and then do as the other have suggested and gently discover if the woman you are interested in would be into D/s or not.

Thirdly...my Dom expects me to handle my own life which includes my children. He watches over me carefully and offers advice and guidance. We don't live together and life being life I have to be able to deal with things. If I am having a lot of trouble with something he'll step in and help a bit more firmly which I welcome plus I'll ask for his advice if i need it. There are some couples that like to have the Dom micromanage every little thing with his submissive, it's really up to you and what your preference is when you figure out what that is.

(in reply to SternFather)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: A question for submissives with attitude (and anyon... - 2/4/2010 6:32:39 AM   
osf


Posts: 3288
Joined: 10/19/2009
Status: offline 		i met my first slave at a gas station where she worked and we found it easy to talk to each other when one day out of nowhere she asked me if i was a dominant male, well now i couldnt let that pass

i had little knowledge of anything at the time and she had none at all, i guess it was just an instinctual question on her part, but i did have some notion of what she was, i sorta have this ability to spot likely projects, now if i could only spot them when something can be done about it

at her station once a cute young thang came in and asked for a candy bar, and her demeanor just said something to me, so i just said in a sharp tone "NO" and her automatic response was "please" lol, but it's always seems to be like that, time and place inconvenient

it took me almost 10 more years to get a clue

i had only recently joined the black rose and that was the extent of what i knew

< Message edited by osf -- 2/4/2010 6:37:55 AM >

_____________________________

all around nice guy and creative misogynist

i'm not very skilled so i just hit harder

i want a woman to make into the woman she never wanted to become

(in reply to lizi)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: A question for submissives with attitude (and anyon... - 2/4/2010 6:39:06 AM   
Phoenixpower


Posts: 8098
Status: offline 		In the past a guy I was involved with realised that I prefered when he took charge when we went into some "private" time...and then slowly increased how he had his way with me and double checked secretly if I am ok with it...

in the past when I was active on the pro side, at first I did not offer bdsm...I was convinced to never ever offer something like that...however, that did not stop my C-Dom to have the impression from my pictures I had displayed that I would be from the submissive side...and he broke me into it big time...my best Dom I ever had...and glad that he taught me a lot

_____________________________

RIP 08-09-07

The PAST is history, the FUTURE a mystery, NOW is a gift - that's why it's called the PRESENT

www.butyoudontlooksick.com/navigation/BYDLS-TheSpoonTheory.pdf

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: A question for submissives with attitude (and anyon... - 2/4/2010 6:40:32 AM   
sunshinemiss


Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline 		We went to dinner one night, and I'd told him about my lactose intolerance. He asked the waiter questions about the different foods - which are cooked with cheese or cream. It touched me that he wanted to take care of me so well. He didn't say "get your pills out, this is what you are eating." He had heard me, took care to make sure I was going to be ok. THAT did it for me. If he had told me to eat bread and water that night, I would have. *Thank goodness he didn't!

_____________________________

Yes, I am a wonton hussy... and still sweet as 3.14

(in reply to osf)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: A question for submissives with attitude (and anyon... - 2/4/2010 6:55:32 AM   
UniqueRaven


Posts: 1237
Joined: 9/30/2009
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline 		If i may post an honest response to everything i've read you've posted here?

Respectfully, please consider no longer making it all about the submissive. In many of your replies you're talking about her, her, her, and her submission, how can you bring it out, take it to the next level, etc. What about you and who you are as a Dom/Master/Owner?

i would suggest you focus right now on what type of Dom/Master/Owner you are - and what your core values are - and where you are in your personal journey with the power exchange. And this may mean taking a "break" for a while from dating, etc. - go sit on a mountaintop somewhere and think, journal, read the writings of other Doms, books, do yoga, Karate, meditate, whatever works for you.....etc. etc. etc.

Once you've reached that point of self-awareness and comfort about who you are, then you can move forward with almost any woman and present your needs to almost anyone - and release your fear of being judged for them. If she isn't the right one for you, then she won't be. And you do have to kiss a lot of frogs in this lifestyle, because now you've added your D/s needs on top of the more mainstream needs you may have, and finding someone compatible can be a challenge.

i have never had an issue while "vanilla" dating (i.e. guys i met on Match.com) telling someone that i enjoy being tied up and spanked (a good way to start) and that i need the man to control the relationship, that i need to be protected and led, etc. If it wasn't a good fit for him, then it wasn't. But i never thought that much about my "technique" of talking with him or worried too much that the "right one" got away. If he's not the right one right now, then he isn't.....you smile and be happy and continue the journey.

And may i endorse what CalifChick said about not putting her on a pedestal? No one belongs there, and all that's going to happen is she won't be able to be her true self with you because you've idealized her. And in this lifestyle, just like anywhere else in life, there are no ideals - just real human beings, with real flaws and struggles and joys, and it's about finding the one that's right for you. i've often said we all carry our own basket of grief through life, and what's in my basket is different from anyone elses, so be happy, and let's all be happy together.

And a last thought - i found a lot of peace a few years ago when i realized EVERYONE on this planet is crazy - in one way or another. Some more than others, but everyone has something going on in their head that sooner or later you're going to need to just smile and accept - hopefully with a big hug.

Oh, and enjoy the journey. Have fun! That's a big part of why we do this, right?

my best,
julie

_____________________________

"My life has no purpose, no direction, no aim, no meaning, and yet I'm happy. I can't figure it out. What am I doing right?" ~Snoopy (Charles Schultz)

My blog is at http://takinghishand.wordpress.com

(in reply to SternFather)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: A question for submissives with attitude (and anyon... - 2/4/2010 7:21:35 AM   
SternFather


Posts: 32
Joined: 4/21/2006
Status: offline 		And everything you just mentioned UniqueRaven is dead on. As I already said, I am in no hurry and this is about me, not "her". I need to take time and work things out in my own head because I have a lot of re-programming to do.

I have spent the last...well my whole life fighting my own internal battle to be "normal". I have to let all of that go before I even think about another person.

I have to bridge the gap between Protector and Master

< Message edited by SternFather -- 2/4/2010 8:05:28 AM >

(in reply to UniqueRaven)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: A question for subs with attitude (and anyone else ... - 2/4/2010 8:58:15 AM   
Lucienne


Posts: 1175
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

quote:

ORIGINAL: SternFather
Your submission to me is very valuable to me and I cherish it for the valuable gift it is. But say I am in a vanilla swirl relationship with a woman that has expressed submissive tendencies to me in the bedroom but at the same time told me that she could never [be] "owned" by anyone because of events in her past, or for any reason?


If that's okay with you, then that's okay.  I would think I would open up an avenue of communication where you ask her what it means to her to be owned, what negative aspects is she speaking of, if she is traumatized then encourage her to get therapy, etc.  She's basically giving you that cliche, "I've been hurt in the past"... I've got news... that's crap.  I don't know anyone over the age of legal voting that hasn't been hurt at some point.  She can build a bridge and get over it, or she can continue to punish her current and/or future partner for the sins of the someone else from the past.



As a person who has no desire to role-play treating another like chattel, or being treated as such, I'd like to point out that it is possible to have all manner of bdsm relations while maintaining opposition to the concept of "ownership" of another human being. I agree that there are many things one could and probably should "build a bridge and get over," I just think Cali went a bit too broad with it in this case.



(in reply to CalifChick)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: A question for subs with attitude (and anyone else ... - 2/4/2010 10:18:36 AM   
SternFather


Posts: 32
Joined: 4/21/2006
Status: offline 		Well, I think I need to look up the word "chattel", but my definition of "owned" does not include treating someone as a slave as much as it does having that person give over complete trust to me with the knowlege that I am in control and that is how things should be.

I derive no pleasure ( at least I haven't had the chance to yet) from treating someone like the stereotypical slave or a sub (a definition I am currently putting through the shredder), but if they got pleasure from it by my hand, then I would enjoy that. (ok that last statement was kind of false since there have been times I did enjoy it)

Since I really have no idea yet what to expect I have no frame of refference. I have had no exposure to someone who has said "yes I am submissive in the lifestyle" except for those of you here. And I know I'm in no way ready yet, but posting on a forum is no replacement for experience and one of these days I will need some.

(in reply to Lucienne)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: A question for submissives with attitude (and anyon... - 2/4/2010 10:54:06 AM   
Ladynslave


Posts: 376
Joined: 7/30/2009
Status: offline 		I cannot think of a way to spot a submissive in a vanilla crowd so I can't help you there.

I met my slave in a vanilla setting.  I had gotten together with my brother and a bunch of his friends to go play with our trucks in the lake.  We didn't end up getting together then, even though I had my eye on him and he on me, but about a week later.  As our relationship progressed, we started talking about our fantasies, this was his.  It started off as role play and he kept expressing his desire for it to be our lifestyle.  It was an easy transition as I have always worn the pants in my household.  There was a lot of communication in between as to what he would like and what I would like.  New things to try, things already tried that we liked or didn't like.

I guess what I am saying is role play can progress to a lifestyle D/s relationship if the right people with the right mindset are involved.

As to children, we each have them.  He deals with the needs of his and I deal with the needs of mine.  That line only got crossed once when I got tired of listening to him and his adult son argue (it had been going on for months without solving anything.)  I stepped in to negotiate some middle ground.  Had it been one of his underage children, I would not have done so.


< Message edited by Ladynslave -- 2/4/2010 10:59:03 AM >

_____________________________

Women and cats will do what they please. Men and dogs need to relax and get used to the idea.

If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning.

(in reply to SternFather)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: A question for subs with attitude (and anyone else ... - 2/4/2010 10:54:55 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

slave or a sub (a definition I am currently putting through the shredder)


That is a good start...


quote:

yes I am submissive in the lifestyle" except for those of you here. And I know I'm in no way ready yet, but posting on a forum is no replacement for experience and one of these days I will need some.


I would think there is a kinky community in Cincinnati.


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to SternFather)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: A question for subs with attitude (and anyone else ... - 2/4/2010 11:14:24 AM   
Lucienne


Posts: 1175
Joined: 9/5/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SternFather

Well, I think I need to look up the word "chattel", but my definition of "owned" does not include treating someone as a slave as much as it does having that person give over complete trust to me with the knowlege that I am in control and that is how things should be.


There are plenty of people running around with their personal definitions of "owned." All that really matters is that you and your partner are working from the same understanding of the terms you use. I think you get that, and that's why you're asking. I made my point because I thought that what Cali wrote could be misread to be broader than, I suspect, she intended. My personal aversion to the concept of "owning" one's partner extends into the vanilla realm, where such concepts are frequently in play even when the parties aren't identifying as D/s. I mean, how the hell do you end up with a woman thinking her husband is cheating on her when he masturbates unless she has some sense of dominion over his sexuality. I just don't dig that shit. It's not a healthy dynamic for me. I'm more of a contracts person.

Of course, these distinctions are meaningless to most people. And by even discussing it at this length, I may be offering evidence that contradicts my assertion that not everyone opposed to "ownership" needs therapy to get over it. ;) But in my search for a real-life... I prefer the term "houseboy," I've found it pretty important to be up-front about what I'm offering. And you seem to be on a path to figuring out what is possible and what you have to offer, so I offer up my example as another data point for you.

quote:

I derive no pleasure ( at least I haven't had the chance to yet) from treating someone like the stereotypical slave or a sub (a definition I am currently putting through the shredder), but if they got pleasure from it by my hand, then I would enjoy that. (ok that last statement was kind of false since there have been times I did enjoy it)


Many people do derive such pleasure. I don't begrudge them their pleasure even if I might quibble with their terminology.

quote:

Since I really have no idea yet what to expect I have no frame of refference. I have had no exposure to someone who has said "yes I am submissive in the lifestyle" except for those of you here. And I know I'm in no way ready yet, but posting on a forum is no replacement for experience and one of these days I will need some.


Seems to me you're going about it well. There's plenty of posts to read here about what people consider submission/domination, etc. I think it's possible to get overly caught up in one's imagination and pretty language, so I'm more interested in a person's acts than words.  My limited experience transitioning from words on the net to real life encounters has not shown the "subs" I've dealt with in the best light in terms of being honest about what they want. Hell, many of them don't even make it through a couple of emails before it is clear that when it comes to submission, their eyes are bigger than their stomachs. Such is life.

(in reply to SternFather)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: A question for subs with attitude (and anyone else ... - 2/4/2010 1:03:45 PM   
SlaveSimone


Posts: 95
Joined: 3/17/2008
From: Denver, Co
Status: offline 		Based on what you've said here I would totally throw the approaching 'vanilla' women out the door. Being new and learning together can be thrilling and fun, but I really think you would benefit from a sub who has a little bit better of an idea of what they want. If you aren't into the internet dating scene, we kinksters do have gatherings and get together in the form of munches ( a get together in a vanilla setting such as a restaurant usually geared towards discussion and socialization), play parties and all sorts of other events. If you aren't ready to delve into a relationship your local kink community is also a great place to learn and just meet like minded people. As long as you keep your open minded attitude intact you should have a wonderful journey ahead of you.

Good luck,
Simone

(in reply to SternFather)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: A question for submissives with attitude (and anyon... - 2/4/2010 1:55:39 PM   
winterrose77


Posts: 114
Joined: 1/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SternFather

This is hard to even articulate.... For those of you that did not meet your Dom through a site or personal ad telling them that you were a submissive in the lifestyle, (sorry, "a sub" sounds less than worthy of ownership to me and why would I own anything not worth owning?) how did you let them know? How did/does the topic come up?

I realize that communication is the key in any kind of successful relationship, but how would I know if the woman full of spirit and attitude I am speaking with is actually a submissive unless she tells me?

Even if you thought I was attractive but didn't know me very well it doesn't sound like a topic that would come up in normal conversation. At least it's never come up in any of my conversations.





When my Lord and I were still just a vanilla couple, we were chatting about different fetishes and whatnot that we had and he was probing me for some of the more secretive ones I didn't wanna tell him.  So we started playing truth or dare.  At least BDSM was the only thing I was holding back, and I asked him to tell me one before I told him one, and lo and behold - he was into domination.  <3

I'm lucky that way, I know that.  I'm so grateful for that one little truth-or-dare session.  <3


_____________________________

~Rose~

"I'm sick of just liking people. I wish to God I could meet somebody I could respect."
-J. D. Salinger

(in reply to SternFather)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: A question for submissives with attitude (and anyon... - 2/4/2010 3:57:09 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		I've never once had to "bring it up" because I simply date dominant personality men..not men who play the role of a "dom".

I am submissive to men who are a dominant personality so there's nothing to bring up. It's an interaction.

Now if you're talking kinky sex....my experience is I've never had to talk about that either because any man I've ever been with has had something about him that was kinky whether he knew it or not. I think most people are kinky. They just don't have any reason to announce it to the world.

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: A question for submissives with attitude (and anyon... - 2/4/2010 8:49:41 PM   
lucylucy


Posts: 612
Joined: 3/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SternFather
Well let me ask you, is there a line in the sand, so to speak, where you retain control? It's a tough question for me to know how to ask. Are there elements of your life that your Dom requires you to retain control over, like getting your own kids to the dentist on time if you have them, or are you expected to put him first in every aspect?

I have a career that is very intense and I'm very good at what I do. He expects me to maintain my career--my career success is one of the things that attracted him to me. I also have a daughter, and he expects me to take care of her and parent her well. He also expects me to maintain myself by eating well and working out regularly; again, my fitness is something that attracted him to me. He doesn't micromanage any of this; for example, he never tells me what to eat or when to work out. It is simply understood by me that to please him, I must maintain my fitness level, and that is my responsibility.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SternFather
I'm having a hard time with role play versus lifestyle

It's not a game to me, it's a life. In my relationship, I submit to my owner. I don't submit sometimes or pretend to submit or play the role of submissive any more than I could say I play the role of mother to my daughter. Yes, "mother" is a role I fulfil, but I don't "play" mother, I am mother. Same with submitting to my owner.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SternFather
Well, I think I need to look up the word "chattel", but my definition of "owned" does not include treating someone as a slave as much as it does having that person give over complete trust to me with the knowledge that I am in control and that is how things should be.

I like your definition. Handing over complete trust and authority--yup.


_____________________________

“There are those who give with joy, & that joy is their reward.” Gibran / "Those who are willing to be vulnerable move among mysteries." Roethke / "Let the beauty we love be what we do. There are hundreds of ways to kneel & kiss the ground." Rumi

(in reply to littlewonder)
Profile   Post #: 40
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