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Stocks Plunge, Unemployment Still Up - 2/5/2010 5:56:30 AM

Sanity

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The Obama apologists have have their work cut out for them. Weren't they just bragging about how well corporate Wall Street's been doing under Obama?

Good thing Obama's finally decided to try to focus on the economy...

quote:

January unemployment rate drops to 9.7 percent

WASHINGTON – The unemployment rate dropped unexpectedly in January to 9.7 percent from 10 percent while employers shed 20,000 jobs.

The Labor Department says the rate dropped because a survey of households found the number of employed Americans rose by 541,000. The job losses are calculated from a separate survey of employers.

The report also included an annual revision to the estimates of total payrolls, which showed there were 930,000 fewer jobs last March than previously estimated. The department also revised down its estimates for April through October of last year, adding another 433,000 job losses.

November was revised up, however, to show a gain of 64,000 jobs. All told, the department says the Great Recession has eliminated 8.4 million jobs. That's the most of any recession since World War II as a proportion of total payrolls.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100205/ap_on_bi_go_ec_fi/us_economy

quote:

Stocks tumble on worries about jobs, European debt

NEW YORK

The Dow Jones industrials have traded below 10,000 for the first time since Nov. 6. Stocks buckled under the growing belief that the global economy is weaker than many investors expected.

Investors pulled money out of the market after a flood of bad news Thursday. Debt levels are rising in Europe and the number of Americans filing for unemployment benefits jumped unexpectedly. And investors are anxious ahead of the government's January employment report, due out Friday.

According to preliminary calculations, the Dow has ended the day down 268 at 10,002 after falling to 9,998 just before the close. The Standard & Poor's 500 is down 34 at 1,063. And the Nasdaq composite index is off 65 at 2,125.

Just 273 stocks rose on the New York Stock Exchange, while more than 2,800 fell. Volume came to 1.48 billion shares.

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9DLJEDG0.htm

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RE: Stocks Plunge, Unemployment Still Up - 2/5/2010 7:10:09 AM

Termyn8or

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Simple. The system was built wrong from the ground up. Yes it would seem that employment and stock indeces would bear on each other, but market forces are a much stronger influence. These market forces are not necessarily driven by company performance, but by what people think the price of the stock is going to do.

A while back, just off the top of my head I opined that the DJIA should eventually stabilize at about $6,000. Note the word stabilize. This is just one of those excursions aforehand. As long as they keep propping it up, it will keep falling down. When it first hit five digits, I was trepidatious about the whole thing. Nothing has changed my lack of confidence.

That is why I don't play. There is only one way I would play, that would be short selling. I wouldn't do that without some sort of less public information, like inside information. Without an edge I don't play. Of course there may be legal problems doing it my way, so it is not on anything like the front burner to say the least.

T

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RE: Stocks Plunge, Unemployment Still Up - 2/5/2010 7:28:36 AM

Louve00

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~FR
Don't you ever get tired of figuring out ways to blame the sad state of affairs on Obama...no matter what it is, when it happened, or why it even happened, you knock yourself out finding blame with just one man. Sanity, if you havent yet, you're driving yourself insane.

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RE: Stocks Plunge, Unemployment Still Up - 2/5/2010 7:28:47 AM

Musicmystery

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~FR~

I've said this before. I'll say it again, though it's probably to no avail.

Employment will start to pick up this summer. Businesses are already producing to replenish low inventories, and as demand rises, they will have to hire new workers. They will drag their feet about this at first. Probably why Obama is pushing incentives to hire.

Presidents get too much blame and too much credit for economies. But if you want to point fingers, the Bush policies gave us three recessions, helped along by tax cuts, prescription drug plan, two wars and department of homeland security theater---none of which was paid for. The magic money theory again.

We bought our way out of the first two with monetary policy. By the third, starting with Bush's last year in office, interest rates were so low that we had to turn to fiscal policy. That takes longer, and is less popular. Bush didn't start to address it until the credit panic at the last few months of his administration. Enter Obama, already into the first quarter of 2010. The recession continued to the second quarter, but then in the third quarter, we had 2.2% growth, and in the forth, a robust 5.7%. With two positive consecutive quarters, the recession is over, five months into his first term. If it's on Obama--good job!

January typically sees a slowdown, but since production takes labor, rehiring now is only a waiting game, even in a sluggish recovery.

Day to day fluctuations in the stock market are meaningless to anyone but traders. Long term direction and fundamentals are far more important. If you own the corner store, you don't flip out over day to day valuation, but on your business plan/model.

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 2/5/2010 7:30:42 AM >

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RE: Stocks Plunge, Unemployment Still Up - 2/5/2010 7:31:35 AM

housesub4you

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When will you learn, facts are meaningless to those who only think the GOP taxcuts are the greatest thing since the Reagan tax cuts

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RE: Stocks Plunge, Unemployment Still Up - 2/5/2010 7:44:12 AM

Thadius

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*FR*

Is it possible that the drop in unemployment is due to people running out of benefits, and falling off the roles? Or that the market is down because of the warning from Moody's yesterday?

I agree that we will probably see a slight surge in jobs this summer, that is when the majority of the "stimulus" money is to be spent. However, those are going to be more of the temp type gigs. There will also be a slight pickup in the jobs numbers early this spring as the Census Bureau hires on a bunch of canvasers for a little bit to conduct their function. Again, more temp work.

I could be completely offbase, but it is also possible that some of the worries about the taxes that were included in the health care reform bills will disappear with the super-majority being lost in the Senate. A bunch of folks that I have talked to that needed to hire on somebody have been worried about being able to afford the extra person or 2 with the increased costs proposed.

We will see with time.

P.S. I am still cynical about the timing of the stimulus spending, and now the thought of a second errr... a jobs bill on the horizon. I find it funny how they land right in the midst of election season. Go figure.

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RE: Stocks Plunge, Unemployment Still Up - 2/5/2010 7:57:35 AM

pahunkboy

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look closer.

you are missing the green shoots.

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RE: Stocks Plunge, Unemployment Still Up - 2/5/2010 7:58:35 AM

thompsonx

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quote:

P.S. I am still cynical about the timing of the stimulus spending, and now the thought of a second errr... a jobs bill on the horizon. I find it funny how they land right in the midst of election season. Go figure.

If you were president when would you have scheduled them?

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RE: Stocks Plunge, Unemployment Still Up - 2/5/2010 8:14:42 AM

Thadius

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

P.S. I am still cynical about the timing of the stimulus spending, and now the thought of a second errr... a jobs bill on the horizon. I find it funny how they land right in the midst of election season. Go figure.

If you were president when would you have scheduled them?

If the full $820Billion was such an emergency, I suggest that perhaps the majority of the money should have been spent last year... The last numbers I saw, suggested that 2/3 of the money has yet to be spent. Now it is looking more like a slush fund, to be spent to help ensure certain seats are protected in the upcoming mid-terms. Like I said I am a bit cynical.

If I were president, and had to spend that money, I probably would have gone a completely different route. Hmmm, perhaps something along the lines of $2,000 to each man, woman and child (citizen or legal alien). Which would leave about $200Billion that could have been divided up to the state governments for infrastructure or job retraining programs. Not that I like the idea of spending that kind of money by the Federal govt, but hell the money belongs to us (the people), not the government.

Then again, I am just a simple man.

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RE: Stocks Plunge, Unemployment Still Up - 2/5/2010 8:47:46 AM

LadyEllen

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Sanity, I cant help but think you'd be all for blaming the Samaritan, for choosing a budget rather than luxury hotel, rather than the muggers whose victim he helped out.

E

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RE: Stocks Plunge, Unemployment Still Up - 2/5/2010 9:29:54 AM

Moonhead

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quote:

ORIGINAL: housesub4you

When will you learn, facts are meaningless to those who only think the GOP taxcuts are the greatest thing since the Reagan tax cuts

The really baffling thing about that is the way none of the apologist sheep seem to be rich enough to benefit any from the tax cuts themselves. It always puzzles me that people who are supposedly motivated by self interest are keen to bend over and get fucked up the arse without any lube by the tiny minority who own most of the country. Doubtless they hope to become rich themselves one day, but all of this redirecting money from the middle classes to the top 5% makes that a lot less likely, I'd have thought.

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RE: Stocks Plunge, Unemployment Still Up - 2/5/2010 9:33:03 AM

Musicmystery

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Want to take a look? [and what's with the apologist sheep thing? Missed that part!]

My federal taxes keep dropping. And with the cut in services, my state and local taxes keep climbing.

As for voting against self-interest, I wonder exactly that every time I see people worshiping the neo-cons.

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RE: Stocks Plunge, Unemployment Still Up - 2/5/2010 9:41:28 AM

AnimusRex

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
Day to day fluctuations in the stock market are meaningless to anyone but traders. Long term direction and fundamentals are far more important.

Well said, but also worth noting, that Wall Street is not Main Street. This notion that we should all fixate our policies around what pushes the Dow upward is madness.

Yes, a healthy stock exchange is in the long run, good for the country, because it provides financial investment in companies.

But that is one small part of our overall economy; the vast majority of businesses, the vast majority of employees and economic activity is centered in small businesses far away from Wall Street and publicly traded companies.

Again, the essence of political conservatism (as outlined by Russell Kirk and others ) is caution, doubt, moderation and most of all balance.

We have allowed the Wall Street investment banks to become engorged with power, way out of balance with their true importance, and confused a cultish devotion to market absolutism with a reasoned balance between public good and private interests.

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RE: Stocks Plunge, Unemployment Still Up - 2/5/2010 9:44:03 AM

Moonhead

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I just thought I'd mention the apologist sheep as there's a lot more neocons parroting long proven farcical lines about trickle down theory and the free flow of the market being good for all than there are liberals making excuses for Obama at this point. If we're going to have Sanity making snide digs at anybody who disagrees with him for being a cult member, it behooves him to clear all of the kool ade out of his own fridge first, I'd have thought. I just thought I'd better point that out as it doesn't appear to have occurred to him, does it?

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RE: Stocks Plunge, Unemployment Still Up - 2/5/2010 9:44:04 AM

pahunkboy

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and then there is the other balance sheet that Walter Buriun says is the real budget.

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RE: Stocks Plunge, Unemployment Still Up - 2/5/2010 10:05:08 AM

Moonhead

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What was that Bob Marley song about the lion in Zion?

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RE: Stocks Plunge, Unemployment Still Up - 2/5/2010 10:28:05 AM

mnottertail

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Ja, the plunge is 0.80% on our index, about anywhere between half and a quarter of what other world indexes are plunging. Time to start jumping. Lets start with the ones who are saying its plunging.

World recession fears, and the enormous US deficit leading the pigs to slaughter. Should we look at the drop with bush in both the indexes from their high to low and the unemployment rate on his watch?

Why no panic then by the 'conservatives'? LOL. Buncha fucking chicken littles.

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RE: Stocks Plunge, Unemployment Still Up - 2/5/2010 10:34:51 AM

tazzygirl

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Dow Jones when Bush took office

Stocks have tumbled today, with the Dow down more than 200 points and dipping below 11,000 for the first time in two years. It's above that mark at the moment, but still within 500 points of where it was on Jan. 20, 2001. On that date, it stood at 10,587.59. Why does that date matter? That's the date we swore in the first U.S. President to have an MBA. Hmmm ...

http://dallasmorningviewsblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2008/07/dow-jones-avera.html

Dow Jones the day he left office

Stock Market Closing Prices - 1/21/09

Dow Jones Industrial Average ( DJIA ) Close - 8228.10

http://daytradingstockblog.blogspot.com/2009/01/dow-jones-close-12109-stock-market.html

Unemployment

Jan, 2001

339,000

Jan, 2009

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Unemployment spiked in all states nationwide in December for the first time as companies shed hundreds of thousands of positions, federal data released Tuesday shows.

All 50 states and the District of Columbia recorded unemployment rate increases compared with the previous month and the year prior period, the Bureau of Labor Statistics of the U.S. Department of Labor reported.

The report marked the first time every state recorded a rise in monthly unemployment since the bureau began keeping such records in 1976.

"It's been very widespread across the country," said Tom Nardone, assistant commissioner for current employment analysis at the bureau, of the job losses.

Michigan and Rhode Island once again led the nation with the highest jobless rates at 10.6% and 10% respectively. Rhode Island's rate is the highest in more than three decades.

Wyoming had the lowest unemployment rate, at 3.4%, followed closely by North Dakota, at 3.5%. Both these states saw their rates inch up 0.2 percentage points, which the bureau does not consider statistically significant.

Jobs are disappearing at a rapid pace. Indiana and South Carolina recorded the largest monthly unemployment rate increase, at 1.1 percentage point each, while six other states had 1 percentage point jumps.

Several states saw their unemployment rates spike from a year ago. Idaho's rate jumped to 6.4%, from 2.7%, while Rhode Island's climbed to 10%, from 5.2% a year earlier.

"Virtually all industries are losing jobs except education and health care," said Rebecca Rust, Florida's chief economist.

The national unemployment rate rose to 7.2% in December, up from 6.8% the previous month and from 4.9% a year earlier.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/01/27/news/economy/state_unemployment/?postversion=2009012713

So, when we are talking about how BAD Obama and his administration is on these two aspects, look up the previous history. ALOT of what we have now, he inherited... Bush left a mess... bigger than most republican lovers realize.

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RE: Stocks Plunge, Unemployment Still Up - 2/5/2010 10:36:28 AM

tazzygirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Ja, the plunge is 0.80% on our index, about anywhere between half and a quarter of what other world indexes are plunging. Time to start jumping. Lets start with the ones who are saying its plunging.

World recession fears, and the enormous US deficit leading the pigs to slaughter. Should we look at the drop with bush in both the indexes from their high to low and the unemployment rate on his watch?

Why no panic then by the 'conservatives'? LOL. Buncha fucking chicken littles.

Talk about a timely posting!

~grins

im starting to think like you Master Ron!

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RE: Stocks Plunge, Unemployment Still Up - 2/5/2010 10:39:08 AM

mnottertail

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IBM 122.45 down from 123.00 time to overdose on the seconal.

Anyone want to buy my AIG or WaMu for what I paid for it?

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