tazzygirl
Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
I must be feeling masochistic this morning to continue this debate with you. But in the attempts of trying to clarify my point, here goes:
What you are doing here is a classic case of taking someones words and twisting them around, drawing a conclusion and then asking if that is what they meant.
My answer to you is no, this is not what I meant. I will attempt one last time to explain to you what I am saying.
Point #1
Just because someone commits something against the laws of their religion, they do not stop believing, therefore are never asked to renounce their religion. Confession, forgivness and redemption allows to keep their religion. Also, because they have free will, they can absolutely continue to have faith.
Luke 6:37
Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.
Point #2
You wrote:
quote:
Its a convenient excuse. Just as convenient as saying.. Im still registered as a Catholic.. but im not. you go out tomorrow, and kill a dozen people. Someone finds your name on a church roster... voila... Catholic kills dozen. But... wait.. you arent Catholic.
Ok, see here is a perfect example of you taking a statement meant to prove another point and flipping it around. Instead of posting at lightinig speed, stop and think for a minute. This is not what I said.
When I talked about religious people committing crimes in the name of religion. I have never, ever in my entire life seen a headline that says "Catholic kills dozen", at least not in North America, unless someone killed in the name of the Catholic church.
Capish?
Now the one exception to this is when an ignorant news outfit reports a crime that was not committed in the name of religion and mentions the alledged criminal's religion in order to further sully that religion because that religion is currently under attack by that state, ie: "Muslim robs grocery store", etc. That is bias and prejudice and bad journalism.
Point #3
I was baptised Catholic. As far as the Church is concerned, I can come back anytime I want, as I am considered part of their flock through baptism. Now if I wanted to get out of this, I would have to write a letter to the Vatican stating that I would like to renounce my baptism. I don't want to give them this power. Rather, my final will and testament says that I'm an atheist and do not want a religious ceremony or arrangements for my funeral. My family is aware of this.
When I mentioned that I was "still technically a Catholic", it was simply to prove the point that you don't get kicked out of organized religion that easily. You actually have to ask to leave, even when you commit heresy like I do. Why? Because the basis of religion is to grow. The will forgive the one who repents and wants to come back.
quote:
ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
So that means, then, you are not atheist, neither is LA. Is that what you are saying?
I am an atheist. I said that a few pages back if you would care to read rather than just shoot off asinine writings about something that you do not grasp.
- LA
quote:
I must be feeling masochistic this morning to continue this debate with you. But in the attempts of trying to clarify my point, here goes:
Im sorry you feel a debate is masochistic. But, im not one to bend over backwards to kiss an ass simply because that ass feels it is right.
quote:
What you are doing here is a classic case of taking someones words and twisting them around, drawing a conclusion and then asking if that is what they meant.
My answer to you is no, this is not what I meant. I will attempt one last time to explain to you what I am saying.
That is what you see because its convenient for you to see only that. But, allow me to clear this up for you. I asked because i needed to be clear of where YOU were coming from due to your own twists and turns.
quote:
Point #1
Just because someone commits something against the laws of their religion, they do not stop believing, therefore are never asked to renounce their religion. Confession, forgivness and redemption allows to keep their religion. Also, because they have free will, they can absolutely continue to have faith.
Luke 6:37
Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.
I like Austin Cline, even if i dont always agree with his belief. But, in the following, he agrees with what i have been saying...
1st. Commandment, Exodus 20:3 “Thou shalt have no other gods before me.”
The punishment - Deuteronomy 17:3-5“And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heavens, which I have not commanded. Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing and shalt stone them with stones, till they die”
3rd. Commandment, Exodus 20:7 “Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord in vain.”
The punishment - Leviticus 24:16 “And he that blasphemeth the name of the Lord, he shall surely be put to death,”
4th. Commandment, Exodus 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.”
The punishment - Exodus 31:15 “Whosoever shall work in the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.”
http://atheism.about.com/b/2004/03/15/post-the-commandments-and-the-penalties.htm
Breaking a commandment is NO little thing. The Bible calls for harsh, swift penalties for doing so.
quote:
Point #2
You wrote:
quote:
Its a convenient excuse. Just as convenient as saying.. Im still registered as a Catholic.. but im not. you go out tomorrow, and kill a dozen people. Someone finds your name on a church roster... voila... Catholic kills dozen. But... wait.. you arent Catholic.
Ok, see here is a perfect example of you taking a statement meant to prove another point and flipping it around. Instead of posting at lightinig speed, stop and think for a minute. This is not what I said.
When I talked about religious people committing crimes in the name of religion. I have never, ever in my entire life seen a headline that says "Catholic kills dozen", at least not in North America, unless someone killed in the name of the Catholic church.
Capish?
Now the one exception to this is when an ignorant news outfit reports a crime that was not committed in the name of religion and mentions the alledged criminal's religion in order to further sully that religion because that religion is currently under attack by that state, ie: "Muslim robs grocery store", etc. That is bias and prejudice and bad journalism.
And i reiterate religious people do not commit crimes. They set aside their "religious" beliefs when they decide to commit one.
Capish?
quote:
Point #3
I was baptised Catholic. As far as the Church is concerned, I can come back anytime I want, as I am considered part of their flock through baptism. Now if I wanted to get out of this, I would have to write a letter to the Vatican stating that I would like to renounce my baptism. I don't want to give them this power. Rather, my final will and testament says that I'm an atheist and do not want a religious ceremony or arrangements for my funeral. My family is aware of this.
When I mentioned that I was "still technically a Catholic", it was simply to prove the point that you don't get kicked out of organized religion that easily. You actually have to ask to leave, even when you commit heresy like I do. Why? Because the basis of religion is to grow. The will forgive the one who repents and wants to come back.
quote:
ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
So that means, then, you are not atheist, neither is LA. Is that what you are saying?
I am an atheist. I said that a few pages back if you would care to read rather than just shoot off asinine writings about something that you do not grasp.
You keep saying you are an atheist, yet declare you are a technial Catholic. Is that like being a technical virgin? I did not miss your assertions, what i found was your assertions to be both... well.. to be rather a rediculous argument...until i realized you were comparing apples to oranges when comparing the religious roll call to what beliefs a person holds.
I was baptized Methodist... went to catholic school and took instructions. Your point is not lost, its just irrelevant. I am not speaking of who is on a church roll call. I am speaking of the individual. And of course they were forgive... Christianity is all about forgiveness.... but you have to SEEK that forgiveness, make atonement, admit your guilt, and make it right.
In the process of committing a sin, you have set aside your beliefs in that religion.... which is why you have to ask for forgiveness in the first place.
Honestly, this isnt a hard concept to understand.... unless you wish it to be hard to grasp.
_____________________________
Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.
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