RE: Proof Of God To An Atheist (Full Version)

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tazzygirl -> RE: Proof Of God To An Atheist (2/7/2010 9:26:04 AM)

No one continued to twist anything. I merely restated my position, gave you reasons why i held that position, and waited for you to debate them, Intead, you ran away from the debate. I do understand why. Just dont pin that blame on anything else than yourself. You attempted to belittle me for being a "lit?tle girl" after you, yourself, viewed my profile. Can only dream of why you would make that ssumption, and i know it has nothing to do with physical size. At least, in that, i commend you for not following Steel down that same path.

When you are really ready to debate all this, let me know. You already know how to contact me, and im always up for a good debate. My position, i have made clear. Im waiting to see your rebuttal. That is how a debate works, yes?



willbeurdaddy -> RE: Proof Of God To An Atheist (2/7/2010 9:28:00 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Do try and follow. When you claim to be a christian, for example, you claim to follow the tenants of that religion. Once you stop following the tenants of that religion, you are no longer following that religion, and are no longer OF that religion. Really, this is not that hard to comprehend.

Just because a Christian isn't following your interpretation of the tenants of Christianity doesn't mean they aren't following their interpretation of the tenants.






I just want to know how much rent all these tenants pay! [sm=banghead.gif]


Whats being missed about Christianity is that redemption is one of its main TENETS. You can violate ye olde commandments as long as you return to the flock and have been following that religion the whole time. Its kinda like recent AGW theory....no weather pattern can be declared evidence against it because it predicts nothing but what we've known all along...weather changes. No action violates your practice of Christianity except maybe dying before your last confession absolves you.

"what do you want from life?
someone to love and someone that you can trust?
what do you want from life?
to try and be happy while you do the nasty things you must?"



willbeurdaddy -> RE: Proof Of God To An Atheist (2/7/2010 9:31:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

I brought that up on account of how Martin Luther's antisemitic writings influenced Hitlers beliefs.  


ML might have influenced Hitlers beliefs, but it was the Muslim Brotherhood that turned Hitler from exiling Jews to exterminating them.



tazzygirl -> RE: Proof Of God To An Atheist (2/7/2010 9:32:17 AM)

quote:

You can violate ye olde commandments as long as you return to the flock


By your own words, indicating you have left the flock... hense... left the religion, even if for just a short time. Then you have to atone for your trangressions. Thank you for making my point, willbe.



LadyAngelika -> RE: Proof Of God To An Atheist (2/7/2010 9:34:26 AM)

You keep believing what you want to believe tazzygirl.

Just because someone decides to put an end to a debate because they believe it has been an exercise in futility, doesn't mean they are running away from it.

And for the little girl comment, scroll back. I took it back and replaced it with something more accurate.

- LA



tazzygirl -> RE: Proof Of God To An Atheist (2/7/2010 9:36:06 AM)

Your opinion is just that, the same as mine. We are both entitled to believe as we wish about the intelligence, or lack of, the other. [:D]

But, my points stand unargued. Makes me wonder why. lol... no it doesnt, not really.



willbeurdaddy -> RE: Proof Of God To An Atheist (2/7/2010 9:38:18 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

You keep believing what you want to believe tazzygirl.

Just because someone decides to put an end to a debate because they believe it has been an exercise in futility, doesn't mean they are running away from it.

And for the little girl comment, scroll back. I took it back and replaced it with something more accurate.

- LA


No need to retract it. "little" can refer to many things other than physical stature, age or even maturity. "Petty" is the one that comes to mind most often re the subject at hand.



LadyAngelika -> RE: Proof Of God To An Atheist (2/7/2010 9:38:27 AM)

quote:

Makes me wonder why.


I told you why 4 times. And this is a perfect example.

- LA



tazzygirl -> RE: Proof Of God To An Atheist (2/7/2010 9:47:44 AM)

Lets follow the trail, shall we?

post 168

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

And the act of confession as well as the act of atonement would back me up.


No it wouldn't. In fact, I've proclaimed myself an atheist and I'm still registered in the Catholic church. Technically, I'm still a Catholic. Religion doesn't kick out it's subscribers as they need as many sheep as possible in the flock.

- LA


post 170


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

We are not speaking of the offical role call here. Or are you? Do you consider those people religious only if they are are on some form in some church?



post 172


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

We are not speaking of the offical role call here. Or are you? Do you consider those people religious only if they are are on some form in some church?

People who believe in God but don't have a religion are not religious. They are believers, they have faith, they are spiritual, but they aren't religious.

Just because someone commits something against the laws of their religion, they do not stop believing, therefore are never asked to renounce their religion.

You know, I like an intelligent debate, but this one is far from intelligent. It is absurd really because you obviously are arguing just about anything you like.

- LA


now, here, i had asked for clarification... and already you are attacking, declaring i am far from intelligent, and you are accusing me before i even had a chance to respond to the clarification i asked for.


Then post 174

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

We are not speaking of the offical role call here. Or are you? Do you consider those people religious only if they are are on some form in some church?

People who believe in God but don't have a religion are not religious. They are believers, they have faith, they are spiritual, but they aren't religious.

Just because someone commits something against the laws of their religion, they do not stop believing, therefore are never asked to renounce their religion.

You know, I like an intelligent debate, but this one is far from intelligent. It is absurd really because you obviously are arguing just about anything you like.

- LA


quote:


quote:


And the act of confession as well as the act of atonement would back me up.

No it wouldn't. In fact, I've proclaimed myself an atheist and I'm still registered in the Catholic church. Technically, I'm still a Catholic. Religion doesn't kick out it's subscribers as they need as many sheep as possible in the flock.

- LA


Im sorry, was this not your argument? It was the one i was responding too.


and post 183, my next post to you...


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Its a convenient excuse. Just as convenient as saying.. Im still registered as a Catholic.. but im not. you go out tomorrow, and kill a dozen people. Someone finds your name on a church roster... voila... Catholic kills dozen. But... wait.. you arent Catholic. So, my response is the same. Just because you claim to be something does not mean you are. Just because you claim to be a war hero doesnt make you one. As you said earlier, people lie everyday, which is against the catholic and protestant commandments. Honoring your mother and father is a requirement of every religious commandment... no exceptions.

There are no personal interpretations. Unless you are looking for a reason to hate people without cause.



again, i restate my case, and you accuse me of twisting your words. perhaps you need to read the thread again?



willbeurdaddy -> RE: Proof Of God To An Atheist (2/7/2010 9:50:57 AM)

QED



mcbride -> RE: Proof Of God To An Atheist (2/7/2010 9:54:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

I like using Wikipedia
Hitler stated in a speech in 1927:


Herr Hitler called Christianity one of the great "scourges" of history, and said of the Germans, "Let's be the only people who are immunized against this disease." Sounds like one of your quotes. Are you Catholic, too, then?

It may come as a shock to you that Hitler lied to the public when it suited his purposes, particularly when he still needed German voters, as he did in 1927. But Brain, it's hard to understand why you didn't mention Hitler quotes like "I am a complete pagan", and "The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death...Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity". His writing that went to fellow Nazis was explicit on the subject, and there's a long list of similar quotes to demonstrate that he was rabidly anti-Christian, and anti-Catholic. As you know.

His actions make it even clearer, so it's hard to understand why you didn't mention that Hitler closed religious schools, why he shut down Christian organizations, or why he ordered the murder of priests, not to mention the German leader of Catholic Action.

You didn't mention that Hitler had Christian civil servants fired, that he confiscated church property, or that he censored religious newspapers.  

Maybe you should read the entire page at Wikipedia, and/or expand your reading to actual history, and perhaps past sites like faithisbad.com, because that kind of cartoony anti-religious propaganda doesn't do any favours to those of us who support science and reason and liberalism.



thishereboi -> RE: Proof Of God To An Atheist (2/7/2010 9:56:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

Christmas is not a religious holiday anymore, not for the masses. The reason that I do not celebrate Christmas is not because I'm an atheist, but rather because I don't agree with the hypocrisy of the holiday.

- LA

No, that isn't what I wrote. I'm not sure how you drew that conclusion.

And you are abolutely free to celebrate what you wish of course!

- LA


I drew it from this...sorry if I misunderstood.



Ok, I know repeating something exacly the way it was first expressed the first time is counter productive to understanding, but let me do so and highlight the though, getting rid of the exception.

The reason that I do not celebrate Christmas is not because I'm an atheist, but rather because I don't agree with the hypocrisy of the holiday.

Your response was: "So your not going to celebrate a holiday because 'the masses' don't view it as a religious holiday?"

Christmas was initially a Norse holiday which was then borrowed (I'm being nice here) by the Christians. Now, it has been borrowed by (again, being nice) by profit driven corporations and credit companies.

That is why I don't celebrate Christmas. There is no religious meaning for me nor am I in agreement to be indebted in the name of "the spirit of giving".

I give every day, of my time, of myself and of my love.

- LA


Not sure why you feel you have to repeat it, I said I was sorry for misunderstanding.

You do understand what that means right? Unless of course you just feel the need to continue your rant, then by all means carry on.

Oh and for the record, yes I know that Christmas falls on the same day as another holiday. I believe they did that originally so that they would not be persecuted for celebrating it. Now I am not sure why that upsets people. What difference does it make if someone else is celebrating something on the same day as you are? It kinda reminds me of the neighbor kid who used to get all pissed off because his sister was born on the same day and he had to share his birthday.



LadyAngelika -> RE: Proof Of God To An Atheist (2/7/2010 10:02:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
Not sure why you feel you have to repeat it, I said I was sorry for misunderstanding.



Ah then I misinterpreted your response. My apologies. I only re-explained because I thought you still misunderstood. It wasn't a rant btw :-)

- LA



LadyAngelika -> RE: Proof Of God To An Atheist (2/7/2010 10:05:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

QED


"I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing." "But," says Man, "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED." "Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that" and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic."

From The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, by Douglas Adams

- LA



thishereboi -> RE: Proof Of God To An Atheist (2/7/2010 10:08:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

Why what? I am trying to understand why/how people believe in God. It doesn't make sense.

quote:

ORIGINAL: housesub4you

Why Brain????  Why







I find it hard to believe you have any interest in other people's beliefs. I think you come on here to show how superior you are because you have seen the light and don't believe in god. Now there is a chance that I am wrong about this, but so far your posts haven't shown that.



thishereboi -> RE: Proof Of God To An Atheist (2/7/2010 10:26:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Its pretty simple logic. And the act of confession as well as the act of atonement would back me up. According to christian faith, god gave a list of commandments, and the law that they were to be followed.. no exceptions. No where was it written that you could lie if.. you could steal if.. ect. Once you break one, you might as well have broken them all... there are no minor or major commandments that i recall.


So what your saying is your a christian until you do something wrong and then your not a christian anymore? Wow, that would wipe out our whole church as I am pretty certain we don't have any members who are perfect and never make mistakes. In fact I would bet even our minister makes mistakes from time to time. Does this mean he's not a christian either?



NorthernGent -> RE: Proof Of God To An Atheist (2/7/2010 10:30:38 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mcbride

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

I like using Wikipedia
Hitler stated in a speech in 1927:


Herr Hitler called Christianity one of the great "scourges" of history, and said of the Germans, "Let's be the only people who are immunized against this disease." Sounds like one of your quotes. Are you Catholic, too, then?



Which is absolutely correct - and it was Nietzsche who furnished Hitler with his views on Christianity.

In fact - with the exception of the communists for ideological reasons - it was the German Catholic Centre Party that was most vociferous in opposing Hitler's policies.



LadyAngelika -> RE: Proof Of God To An Atheist (2/7/2010 10:31:59 AM)

I post this for clarification and not for debate.

Post 83: http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3050198

And I think that is the position of most atheists, what Dawkins calls a de facto atheist, which means basically that while I cannot know for certain, I think God is very improbable, and I live my life on the assumption that he is not there.

I do not need to live in a world of absolutes. I do not need to try and convert anyone to my views. And I will definitely not start a war in the name of Atheism. That is how I am different from the fundemental principles of most modern theistic religions.

I had already stated my position. On paper I am catholic. In my heart, soul and mind, I am no longer. I do not deny the influence that being raised in this environment has had on me, for better or for worse.

- LA



Jeffff -> RE: Proof Of God To An Atheist (2/7/2010 10:32:13 AM)

God bears witness that there is no god but Him and so do the angels and those possessed of knowledge. In justice, there is no god but Him, He is the exalted, the wise." 

"I bear witness that there is no God but Allah and that Muhammad is His servant and messenger."
 
 
I hope this clears everything up....:)

Jeff



tazzygirl -> RE: Proof Of God To An Atheist (2/7/2010 10:33:22 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Its pretty simple logic. And the act of confession as well as the act of atonement would back me up. According to christian faith, god gave a list of commandments, and the law that they were to be followed.. no exceptions. No where was it written that you could lie if.. you could steal if.. ect. Once you break one, you might as well have broken them all... there are no minor or major commandments that i recall.


So what your saying is your a christian until you do something wrong and then your not a christian anymore? Wow, that would wipe out our whole church as I am pretty certain we don't have any members who are perfect and never make mistakes. In fact I would bet even our minister makes mistakes from time to time. Does this mean he's not a christian either?



If your minister, or a flock member, is discovered to have broken a law, or commandment, then refused to admit and atone, would you still consider him a christian?



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