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RE: Proof Of God To An Atheist - 2/6/2010 11:56:47 AM   
Jeffff


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Status: offline 		Interesting twist.  I will have to ponder that a bit...:)


Jeff

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RE: Proof Of God To An Atheist - 2/6/2010 11:59:43 AM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		i agree, Master Kirata. Once it is proven that it is something else, then it is no longer an argument of ignorance.

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RE: Proof Of God To An Atheist - 2/6/2010 12:15:03 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

scientists rely on a preponderence of lack of evidence (direct or indirect) for something as proof

Unh, scientists do not "rely on" anything "as proof" of something that can't be proven.

K.



You can not prove a negative. Thus it can never really be proven that God does not exist.

Jeff

And I think that is the position of most atheists, what Dawkins calls a de facto atheist, which means basically that while I cannot know for certain, I think God is very improbable, and I live my life on the assumption that he is not there.

I do not need to live in a world of absolutes. I do not need to try and convert anyone to my views. And I will definitely not start a war in the name of Atheism. That is how I am different from the fundemental principles of most modern theistic religions.

- LA

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RE: Proof Of God To An Atheist - 2/6/2010 12:19:24 PM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		Yet, LA, atheism will tell a religious believer they are nuts, psycho, ect. How is that different than what a "religion" teaches? Placing your own personal views above those of a religion is no better than an atheism placing themselves above mine. I dont need to convince anyone god exists.. for me.. he does... in many forms. Nor would i start a war based upon religion.

So, explain to me how you and i are different?

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 2/6/2010 12:20:27 PM >

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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Proof Of God To An Atheist - 2/6/2010 12:40:47 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Yet, LA, atheism will tell a religious believer they are nuts, psycho, ect. How is that different than what a "religion" teaches? Placing your own personal views above those of a religion is no better than an atheism placing themselves above mine. I dont need to convince anyone god exists.. for me.. he does... in many forms. Nor would i start a war based upon religion.

So, explain to me how you and i are different?

I have never told anyone in my life that they were nuts for believing what they believed. I have had debates with people about it, I have my own personal views on the matter, but no, I have never called anyone nuts. And the fact of the matter is that I don't actually think they are nuts. I think it is normal for people to believe what is widely accepted and that isn't one of the traits of being crazy or nuts.

I do however have issue with what has been done in the name of religion. You might not have started a war based on religion but I suggest that you open up one or two history books or today's newspaper for that matter. You might find a couple.

- LA

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RE: Proof Of God To An Atheist - 2/6/2010 1:03:19 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

LOL.. i dont understand it so much, you are having trouble pointing out where i am wrong. Tsk tsk... you should know by now that doesnt work with me, willbe.



Argumentum ad ignorantiam (Argument from ignorance)
Argumentum ad ignorantiam means "argument from ignorance." The fallacy occurs when it's argued that something must be true, simply because it hasn't been proved false. Or, equivalently, when it is argued that something must be false because it hasn't been proved true.

(Note that this isn't the same as assuming something is false until it has been proved true. In law, for example, you're generally assumed innocent until proven guilty.)

Here are a couple of examples:

"Of course the Bible is true. Nobody can prove otherwise."

"Of course telepathy and other psychic phenomena do not exist. Nobody has shown any proof that they are real."

In scientific investigation, if it is known that an event would produce certain evidence of its having occurred, the absence of such evidence can validly be used to infer that the event didn't occur. It does not prove it with certainty, however.

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RE: Proof Of God To An Atheist - 2/6/2010 1:25:30 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

How do you "prove" that someone loves you?

K.

With a MRI brain scan.

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RE: Proof Of God To An Atheist - 2/6/2010 1:32:16 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
Santa Claus is a metaphor for the spirit of giving.

K.

What is god a metaphor for?

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RE: Proof Of God To An Atheist - 2/6/2010 2:08:05 PM   
mikeyOfGeorgia


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Status: offline 		http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o

'Nuff said


< Message edited by mikeyOfGeorgia -- 2/6/2010 2:09:27 PM >

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RE: Proof Of God To An Atheist - 2/6/2010 2:11:47 PM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Yet, LA, atheism will tell a religious believer they are nuts, psycho, ect. How is that different than what a "religion" teaches? Placing your own personal views above those of a religion is no better than an atheism placing themselves above mine. I dont need to convince anyone god exists.. for me.. he does... in many forms. Nor would i start a war based upon religion.

So, explain to me how you and i are different?

I have never told anyone in my life that they were nuts for believing what they believed. I have had debates with people about it, I have my own personal views on the matter, but no, I have never called anyone nuts. And the fact of the matter is that I don't actually think they are nuts. I think it is normal for people to believe what is widely accepted and that isn't one of the traits of being crazy or nuts.

I do however have issue with what has been done in the name of religion. You might not have started a war based on religion but I suggest that you open up one or two history books or today's newspaper for that matter. You might find a couple.

- LA

There's more widespread and subtle examples than that, sadly. The mess America's public school system is in seems largely down to the fact that a lot of school boards are dominated by people who value promoting philosophical orthodoxy over teaching kids to think.

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RE: Proof Of God To An Atheist - 2/6/2010 2:14:40 PM   
mikeyOfGeorgia


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Status: offline 		i personally think that George Carlin nailed it right in regards to God and religion.

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RE: Proof Of God To An Atheist - 2/6/2010 2:15:28 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mikeyOfGeorgia

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o

'Nuff said


Oh gosh, I LOVE George Carlin! R.I.P. Wise man!

- LA

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RE: Proof Of God To An Atheist - 2/6/2010 2:20:30 PM   
Moonhead


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quote:

Religion has convinced people that there’s an invisible man…living in the sky, who watches everything you do every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a list of ten specific things he doesn’t want you to do. And if you do any of these things, he will send you to a special place, of burning and fire and smoke and torture and anguish for you to live forever, and suffer and burn and scream until the end of time. But he loves you. He loves you and he needs money.

This the one you're thinking of? He said a lot along those lines...

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RE: Proof Of God To An Atheist - 2/6/2010 2:22:32 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

There's more widespread and subtle examples than that, sadly. The mess America's public school system is in seems largely down to the fact that a lot of school boards are dominated by people who value promoting philosophical orthodoxy over teaching kids to think.


Sad but true. Critical thinking is what lead me and many (not all) to Atheism. To promote critical thinking would open up the proverbial can of worms that would make every day citizen question authority, religion and absurd propaganda constructs such as the Axis of Evil.

- LA

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RE: Proof Of God To An Atheist - 2/6/2010 2:22:36 PM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

Christmas is not a religious holiday anymore, not for the masses. The reason that I do not celebrate Christmas is not because I'm an atheist, but rather because I don't agree with the hypocrisy of the holiday.

- LA

No, that isn't what I wrote. I'm not sure how you drew that conclusion.

And you are abolutely free to celebrate what you wish of course!

- LA


I drew it from this...sorry if I misunderstood.


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RE: Proof Of God To An Atheist - 2/6/2010 2:28:06 PM   
KatyLied


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quote:

To promote critical thinking would open up the proverbial can of worms that would make every day citizen question authority, religion and absurd propaganda constructs such as the Axis of Evil.


It is also problematic from a standpoint of people understanding that things, both good and bad, happen in a random manner and there is only so much that we can directly control without thanking/blaming outside forces.  I think these things would be difficult for people to get behind and definitely put some in an area of discomfort and create feelings of abandonment.  For some it would be liberating.  But on the whole I think critical thinking would create problems. 


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RE: Proof Of God To An Atheist - 2/6/2010 2:30:05 PM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

There's more widespread and subtle examples than that, sadly. The mess America's public school system is in seems largely down to the fact that a lot of school boards are dominated by people who value promoting philosophical orthodoxy over teaching kids to think.


Sad but true. Critical thinking is what lead me and many (not all) to Atheism. To promote critical thinking would open up the proverbial can of worms that would make every day citizen question authority, religion and absurd propaganda constructs such as the Axis of Evil.

- LA

The hilarious thing is that they pulled the plug on that nonsense back in the '50s as the Russians were winning the space race and teaching kids that fairytales and science had equal value wasn't producing enough physicists. These days there's no similar reason for valuing rationality, so that won't happen again.

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RE: Proof Of God To An Atheist - 2/6/2010 2:32:43 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

Christmas is not a religious holiday anymore, not for the masses. The reason that I do not celebrate Christmas is not because I'm an atheist, but rather because I don't agree with the hypocrisy of the holiday.

- LA

No, that isn't what I wrote. I'm not sure how you drew that conclusion.

And you are abolutely free to celebrate what you wish of course!

- LA


I drew it from this...sorry if I misunderstood.



Ok, I know repeating something exacly the way it was first expressed the first time is counter productive to understanding, but let me do so and highlight the though, getting rid of the exception.

The reason that I do not celebrate Christmas is not because I'm an atheist, but rather because I don't agree with the hypocrisy of the holiday.

Your response was: "So your not going to celebrate a holiday because 'the masses' don't view it as a religious holiday?"

Christmas was initially a Norse holiday which was then borrowed (I'm being nice here) by the Christians. Now, it has been borrowed by (again, being nice) by profit driven corporations and credit companies.

That is why I don't celebrate Christmas. There is no religious meaning for me nor am I in agreement to be indebted in the name of "the spirit of giving".

I give every day, of my time, of myself and of my love.

- LA

< Message edited by LadyAngelika -- 2/6/2010 2:33:11 PM >

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RE: Proof Of God To An Atheist - 2/6/2010 2:35:16 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

quote:

To promote critical thinking would open up the proverbial can of worms that would make every day citizen question authority, religion and absurd propaganda constructs such as the Axis of Evil.


It is also problematic from a standpoint of people understanding that things, both good and bad, happen in a random manner and there is only so much that we can directly control without thanking/blaming outside forces.  I think these things would be difficult for people to get behind and definitely put some in an area of discomfort and create feelings of abandonment.  For some it would be liberating.  But on the whole I think critical thinking would create problems. 


Agreed. I think that the masses unfortunately are better under a religious rule. The love from and fear of God keeps a lot of people in line. Hypothetically, would have to come up with another construct to replace religion if we were able to get rid of it. That said, I see how religion can be taken to the extreme and oppress people. That is when religion angers me.

- LA

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RE: Proof Of God To An Atheist - 2/6/2010 2:37:59 PM   
Thadius


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Status: offline 		How does that old quip go? In the beginning God created man, and in gratitude man in turn created God.



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