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RE: An Experiment - 2/6/2010 10:40:21 PM   
jujubeeMB


Posts: 723
Joined: 1/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania


What degree did I say it was wrong?

I said what you did "sucked"

I called it a "prank"... actually I got that from LadyAngelika whom I agree with)

And I stated that what you are not the judge of what you have done, but those who you did it to are the ones that are the judges...

So tell me, where did I demonize you?



When you said I did it for "no fucking reason" and "for shits and giggles" and that in your opinion, people like me suck. You didn't say what I did sucks, you said in your opinion, "those people suck," meaning people like me. That's the attitude that I objected to - the assumption that I would do something for "no fucking reason" and the conclusion that since I had, I sucked.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 181
RE: An Experiment - 2/6/2010 10:41:22 PM   
Whiplashsmile4


Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline 		Here's my line of thoughts...

How Ethical is it for a CEO of a company to go under cover to work as a PeeOn in his own company to gain a higher Appreciation of What it's like to work for his own Company.

How Ethical it is for a Talk Show host to disquise themselves as either an Over Weight person, or a person of another Race or Sex, so they can experience what it's like first hand to be in that person's shoes.

Where do you draw the line at using this kind of Deception as a Tool to Gain full EMPATHIC understanding of other people?

Who is harmed or victimized in the process? Even more so when shit is being recorded for Live TV audience (ask me that can be truely humilating) Yet at the same time a very valued tool for gaining insight.

I'm still in the "She did nothing really wrong mindset" and that there were "No victims" unless she hurt somebody rather badly.

(in reply to sexyred1)
Profile   Post #: 182
RE: An Experiment - 2/6/2010 10:42:32 PM   
jujubeeMB


Posts: 723
Joined: 1/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

I respect both LadyAngelika and juliaoceania. I actually agree with both of you. And I said that ad nauseum in my posts.

I did my part on this thread earlier as you both must have read. So now, I will gracefully step away and let the OP handle this, since it is really about her.


I appreciate you trying to make peace, red, and for being understanding earlier, despite our disagreements. Thank you

(in reply to sexyred1)
Profile   Post #: 183
RE: An Experiment - 2/6/2010 10:53:03 PM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline 		You are welcome. :)

(in reply to jujubeeMB)
Profile   Post #: 184
RE: An Experiment - 2/7/2010 12:14:27 AM   
Aileen1968


Posts: 6062
Joined: 12/12/2007
From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
Status: offline 		*fast reply*
Wow. Poor OP. I can see people having an issue with what you did if you strung some of these women along with back and forth emails for a bit.
But.....you didn't.
If a single email and then a confessional reply email to a test subjects has such a negative, life altering effect on a person, then they have no business being part of an interactive adult world.
Some of you people are really making a huge deal and are taking what she did so personally. I wonder why.




_____________________________



(in reply to jujubeeMB)
Profile   Post #: 185
RE: An Experiment - 2/7/2010 12:41:55 AM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline 		FR-

Victims? Really, how much is it necessary to blow this way out of proportion? The "victims" received emails that turned out to be fake. Did it perhaps waste a few minutes of their precious time? Sure. Did it totally destroy their hopes for a happy union in the future? Doubtful. If they are "victims" because of this, then we are all victims because we have all had someone waste our time with nonsense.

LA, you don't find it the least bit hypocritical to rake this girl over the coals after you admit you did the same thing several years ago on another site? Did you go and apologize to the people you duped? Are you concerned about the victims of YOUR own charade? Saying how with 20/20 hindsight you realize it was wrong doesn't clear the path for you to take such a holier than though attitude towards someone who did the same thing as you.

Julia, comparing her "experiment" with bonafide research is reaching. It's nice that you work in a field where a panel tells you the difference between a big lie and a little lie, and you do innocuous (aka meaningless) research. You do realize there is a difference between scientific experiments and using the term for other things? I mean really, should one meet all the criteria for scientific research when they choose to "experiment" in their kitchen with a new recipe? What the OP did does not make people critical of actual research. She isn't posting it in some scientific journal for all the world to see, it's on a message board.

She admits that it is something that looking back (just as you did LA) it was not the best decision she has ever made. Taking the position that only those she wrote to could possibly determine whether it was a big lie or a little lie? Really, if it was a huge lie to anyone that she wrote to and it has served to really do some damage, as someone who does human research Julia, I'm going to assume you realize that any of those people who claim such suffering have other psychological issues that are in play.

We all want honesty from people in life. Most of us attempt to live our lives as honestly as possible, but the cold hard reality here is that this has been blown completely out of proportion. The more you attempt to beat her down with the concept that she has committed so heinous crime, the more ridiculous it becomes. Drawing your own conclusions as to why she did it (and LA, you committed the same prank). Julia, you keep going on that she is not the one to determine whether it is a big lie or a little lie, that is for the women she wrote to to decide. Why then do you think YOU have the right to determine how bad it was?

The reality is that she was curious about something and did something to satisfy her curiousity. It wasn't a great decision, to be sure. But it wasn't some big huge thing that is ruining actual human research, the "harm" that was caused was no greater than someone accidentally bumping into you as they walk by and she realizes that she it wasn't the best thing to do.

LadyAngelika, I really don't have anything against you at all, but I have to say in this case you are being such a hypocrite that I am amazed. You did the exact same thing, so everything you are saying about her you can say right back to yourself. Just because you did it several years ago (you do realize that you are "several" years older than the OP, that tell you anything?) and realize now it was wrong doesn't make you less of a hypocrite now.

Julia, I don't have anything against you either. But if you honestly think that what she did screws with what society thinks of actual human research, you really need to get a grip. Society's views of human research are based on published studies where control groups and samples are skewed and the statistical data that is used has been "spun" to twist that data to the desired results. It doesn't come from a young woman making a poor decision on an alternative lifestyle site and speaking about what happened in that site's forums.

Really it is time to stop with the holier than thou attitudes and stop raking the girl over the coals as though you have so much more integrity and honesty in your life actions.

(in reply to sexyred1)
Profile   Post #: 186
RE: An Experiment - 2/7/2010 1:09:12 AM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

I know this is not going to make me particularly popular


Those Doms who have an ounce of common sense know that they're going to get a better response with an appropriately written profile and a thoughtful email. They'll be extremely annoyed at your attempt to explain to the morons on this site that there's a pretty simple way to get responses to emails.

Fortunately, the morons (most of them at least) don't get to the fora, so I think they're safe from any additional competition.

To be honest - I can't understand why anyone would think an experiment like this would be worthwhile, isn't it utterly obvious to anyone with an IQ above 32? And no doubt people will say "Oh but so few Doms seem to understand" - But that's easily explained - the Doms that don't get it are fuckwits.

You may as well dedicate a month to getting up early to watch the dawn, and then post the startling conclusion that the Sun does, indeed, come up in the morning.

[Edited for shocking grammar faux pas]


< Message edited by crazyml -- 2/7/2010 1:10:32 AM >

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 187
RE: An Experiment - 2/7/2010 1:52:50 AM   
Whiplashsmile4


Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

quote:

I know this is not going to make me particularly popular


Those Doms who have an ounce of common sense know that they're going to get a better response with an appropriately written profile and a thoughtful email. They'll be extremely annoyed at your attempt to explain to the morons on this site that there's a pretty simple way to get responses to emails.

Fortunately, the morons (most of them at least) don't get to the fora, so I think they're safe from any additional competition.

To be honest - I can't understand why anyone would think an experiment like this would be worthwhile, isn't it utterly obvious to anyone with an IQ above 32? And no doubt people will say "Oh but so few Doms seem to understand" - But that's easily explained - the Doms that don't get it are fuckwits.

You may as well dedicate a month to getting up early to watch the dawn, and then post the startling conclusion that the Sun does, indeed, come up in the morning.

[Edited for shocking grammar faux pas]



I more less agree with your points, however man there sure are a lot of sexual raunchy females profiles that are just begging for the Sleezy humilation, sex and abuse in email. It's more like a competition for who is the biggest whore, slut and piece of fuck meat, no limits girl, that is looking for a True Dom to put them in their place and control everything about their pathetic lives.

Ummmm.. Wait a minute I don't normally respond to profiles on CM, and tend to have mine deactivated (Life is Good). Hell, if I want or need to get laid I can get that in the real time without needing to use Online.

Anyways, every few weeks a guy makes a post to Message Board complaining, or looking for advice or help because they are not getting any responses from women in the emails they send or their profile. These guys are generally not the Rude & Vulgar ones sending out mindless trashy email either (at least not generally).

So it gets to be somewhat confusing as to why these apparently decent guys are not getting a response. Believe it or not, even extremely well written profiles and emails don't get the response. Why? Because of something called personality or tone of the email. Some of these well written emails are in fact long winded and rather DULL DULL DULL. Does not snag the attention nor interest.

This is a very frustrating experience for guys that are sincere and are not being a Pig about things. The Moron/Idiot wanker factor does not apply. No, it's not utterly fracking apparent to people even with IQ's above 32. In fact this concept applies to REAL WORLD dating, where there are nice guys that just can't seem to draw or attract interest from the opposite sex (they ain't bad looking guys either, and they have jobs).

It's so nice that lump all these guys as being "Fuckwits" when some of them ain't at all. Not everybody is good nor feels comfortable when emailing a complete stranger for the first time. It's a bit like Fracking Stage Fright for some people and has very little to with IQ.

You can sit and toss around insults and belittlements or you can attempt to reach for understanding. That's rather a personal choice or decision for you to make. Every time anybody makes a post to a thread, a decision is made. A choice is made regarding the response to give. A choice is made to look for or not look for understanding. A choice is made to attempt to enter into constructive Debate. A choice is made to toss out Humor and Snarky comments for Laughs.

I have to disagree with your simplist accessment about the IQ of 32, your comments about FuckWits and etc... because there really are some since guys that are not being PIGs and they are trying to put honest thought into what they are doing. They turn to the message looking for advice.

Now with that said. If any guy came here to the message board looking for Advice on this subject, DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA who I might Refer them to? The OP of this very thread. Why? Because of their own Personal Experience and Insight gained by their hands on Exploration into the matter. Then again, Experience is Priceless.

In my not so humble Opinion, you'd be the last person I'd point them to for advice, cause you just might end up calling them a FuckWit or something. I'd fear you'd be way too impatient with them as well. I tend to think that about people who cast out name calling and Judgements quickly. Then again... this is just my own personal impression and thoughts.

(in reply to crazyml)
Profile   Post #: 188
RE: An Experiment - 2/7/2010 1:57:57 AM   
LillyoftheVally


Posts: 1826
Joined: 7/22/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4
Anyways, every few weeks a guy makes a post to Message Board complaining, or looking for advice or help because they are not getting any responses from women in the emails they send or their profile. These guys are generally not the Rude & Vulgar ones sending out mindless trashy email either (at least not generally).


And that is kinda what this post is, a response to those messages and basically what the OP is saying is what we all say every time one of those posts appears.

I don't think that the 'experiment' was needed, the only person who can actually take anything from it is the OP because only she knows what she did so as a point for people struggling to get replies it is a little crap. As someone else said it was about her own curiosity, and she isn't the only person to have ever done it, though to be fair on a site like this where so many people complain about timewasters and fakes it was a little thoughtless but thats about it really.

_____________________________

'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

Nah I am not happy to see you either

(in reply to Whiplashsmile4)
Profile   Post #: 189
RE: An Experiment - 2/7/2010 2:05:41 AM   
susie


Posts: 1699
Joined: 11/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

FR-

Victims? Really, how much is it necessary to blow this way out of proportion? The "victims" received emails that turned out to be fake. Did it perhaps waste a few minutes of their precious time? Sure. Did it totally destroy their hopes for a happy union in the future? Doubtful. If they are "victims" because of this, then we are all victims because we have all had someone waste our time with nonsense.


Really it is time to stop with the holier than thou attitudes and stop raking the girl over the coals as though you have so much more integrity and honesty in your life actions.


I have read through this whole thread and it is only at the very end that I see someone making sense. I see 2 other people on this thread apart from the OP who have admitted to making false profiles. I don't see anyone reponding to them with the negative responses the OP has been getting. Why is that, because they are Dominants?

And seriously if the women that were contacted by the OP were so upset to recieve a fake email then they really should not be on a site like this.

(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 190
RE: An Experiment - 2/7/2010 2:08:58 AM   
Whiplashsmile4


Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:


You may as well dedicate a month to getting up early to watch the dawn, and then post the startling conclusion that the Sun does, indeed, come up in the morning.


Yes, Man has noticed the Sun coming up for thousands of years now. Some people were put to death as human sarcifices to ensure the Gods/God would continue to bless the people with the rising sun. Some people actually thought the Sun revolved around the Earth. Some people were put to death for telling other people the Earth really revolves around the SUN. (go figure, the amount of hate, death and misconceptions over something so simple). Yes, the sun has been coming up for a long ass time now. Yet, there's been a lot of debates and issues over it. People have Lost their lives over it too. Pretty Amazing when you actually think about it. The things we take for granted, even the choice of Anologies we use. There will come a time when the sun will no longer rise, at least everything I've seen on the Discovery Channel indicates. It reinforces the things I picked up in high school and from books and magazines. I hate to break the News to you here, there will COME a DAY when the SUN will not Rise. I'm very thankful, I don't have to take somebody's life nor be a sarcifice next week to insure that it really does. Then again, our full and complete understanding of things has evolved, at least should have. I sort of question this matter after watching who's smarter than a 5th Grader on TV.

(in reply to crazyml)
Profile   Post #: 191
RE: An Experiment - 2/7/2010 2:09:18 AM   
LillyoftheVally


Posts: 1826
Joined: 7/22/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: susie

And seriously if the women that were contacted by the OP were so upset to recieve a fake email then they really should not be on a site like this.



See I doubt they were upset, and I think the word victim is stupid in this context, but still she didn't do the right thing, however she knows she didn't, and people making it more melodramatic than it actually is detracts from it anyways.

_____________________________

'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

Nah I am not happy to see you either

(in reply to susie)
Profile   Post #: 192
RE: An Experiment - 2/7/2010 2:20:17 AM   
Whiplashsmile4


Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally


quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4
Anyways, every few weeks a guy makes a post to Message Board complaining, or looking for advice or help because they are not getting any responses from women in the emails they send or their profile. These guys are generally not the Rude & Vulgar ones sending out mindless trashy email either (at least not generally).


And that is kinda what this post is, a response to those messages and basically what the OP is saying is what we all say every time one of those posts appears.

I don't think that the 'experiment' was needed, the only person who can actually take anything from it is the OP because only she knows what she did so as a point for people struggling to get replies it is a little crap. As someone else said it was about her own curiosity, and she isn't the only person to have ever done it, though to be fair on a site like this where so many people complain about timewasters and fakes it was a little thoughtless but thats about it really.


I believe it was her intention to attempt to contribute something of value to the community, and helpful insight to others that struggle with getting email responses. Why do I think think this.... because this is what she expressed in the closing of her post.

quote:


So all the men complaining that women don't respond to messages: make a better profile, and write a kind, warm, respectful, personalized email. We may be on this website because of our sexuality, but our sexuality is not what's going to make us want to talk to you.


Then again Perhaps, I have extremely fucked up reading comprehension skills?

(in reply to LillyoftheVally)
Profile   Post #: 193
RE: An Experiment - 2/7/2010 2:22:44 AM   
LillyoftheVally


Posts: 1826
Joined: 7/22/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4
I believe it was her intention to attempt to contribute something of value to the community, and helpful insight to others that struggle with getting email responses. Why do I think think this.... because this is what she expressed in the closing of her post.


I agree it was her intent, but I don't believe it has worked, nor would it, which was my point


< Message edited by LillyoftheVally -- 2/7/2010 2:24:15 AM >

_____________________________

'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

Nah I am not happy to see you either

(in reply to Whiplashsmile4)
Profile   Post #: 194
RE: An Experiment - 2/7/2010 2:31:47 AM   
Whiplashsmile4


Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: susie

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

FR-

Victims? Really, how much is it necessary to blow this way out of proportion? The "victims" received emails that turned out to be fake. Did it perhaps waste a few minutes of their precious time? Sure. Did it totally destroy their hopes for a happy union in the future? Doubtful. If they are "victims" because of this, then we are all victims because we have all had someone waste our time with nonsense.


Really it is time to stop with the holier than thou attitudes and stop raking the girl over the coals as though you have so much more integrity and honesty in your life actions.


I have read through this whole thread and it is only at the very end that I see someone making sense. I see 2 other people on this thread apart from the OP who have admitted to making false profiles. I don't see anyone reponding to them with the negative responses the OP has been getting. Why is that, because they are Dominants?

And seriously if the women that were contacted by the OP were so upset to recieve a fake email then they really should not be on a site like this.



Susie, while I made no claim earlier to ever having made a false profile (I have in the past though for my own reasons). I personally went so far as to express that I have been deceptive and not so honest at time in my life. I even went so far to express that I will probally be deceptive in the future considering that I am a human being. I myself totally threw myself on the firepit and opened myself up for other people to attack with negative responses.

I even went so far to openly express it was my opinion she did nothing wrong, and I actually endorsed what she did as an EMPATHIC TOOL. Mind you, provided it caused nobody any true or real harm.

See http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3051265

Should I perhaps create a Fake Male Submissive account and see if the reactions are any different? Ummmm... (pondering what differences that might make). Wonder how things would have went over if I were a Male Sissy slave Boi? LOL...

< Message edited by Whiplashsmile4 -- 2/7/2010 2:33:26 AM >

(in reply to susie)
Profile   Post #: 195
RE: An Experiment - 2/7/2010 2:45:56 AM   
Whiplashsmile4


Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4
I believe it was her intention to attempt to contribute something of value to the community, and helpful insight to others that struggle with getting email responses. Why do I think think this.... because this is what she expressed in the closing of her post.


I agree it was her intent, but I don't believe it has worked, nor would it, which was my point



This topic came up on a BBS system that I operated years ago. The thread was was titled "Cyber Cross Dressing". Two users had created fake accounts, switching their genders. Interacted with other users on a number of BBS's including mine at the time. They interacted with people in chat rooms and in message exchanges. They both did this for a course of a week. Trust me, it was no wear heated as things got on here.

Whle my BBS catered to some of the BDSM kink crowd (the adult access sections), it also catered to the Vanilla world. In fact, I even had Chat rooms set up that restricted Swearing and had Moderators for various forums and sections.

Anyways, it was a rather interesting topic of interest for a number of users. That and at the time people were engaging in "Cyber Marriages" (not real marriages but making vows and commitments towards one another online. Ironic, that a few of these Cyber Wedding Events were held on my BBS in a Chat room. Again, these were not real/true Weddings in the legal sense.

I have yet to see the concept of "Cyber Marriage" rear up on here yet. What's my point? Oh yeah, the point I was going to make, is that since there is a great deal of focus stressed and placed upon TRUST and HONEST in the BDSM community, people tend to become a little more twitchy about things, at least as near as I can gather. I coud be wrong about this.

< Message edited by Whiplashsmile4 -- 2/7/2010 2:49:36 AM >

(in reply to LillyoftheVally)
Profile   Post #: 196
RE: An Experiment - 2/7/2010 2:58:33 AM   
LillyoftheVally


Posts: 1826
Joined: 7/22/2009
Status: offline 		People get twitchy about honesty regardless, I don't think its a BDSM specific thing, though this site specifically is one of the most dramatic BDSM sites I use, so it may be to do with that. Anyways I don't really want to get into all that stuff.

My point fundementally is that I could say now that I did the same experiment but only half replied to me, there would be no way to judge the validity of my claim just as there is no way to judge the OP's the post is redundant because who knows what she wrote, the advice she is giving is no different to advice without the experiment aspect. It isn't helpful to anyone. Also if half replied to me, surely the number of posts sent out would make a difference? Also loads of subjective factors such as who she sent messages to etc etc it all means that whether the OP agrees or not it was a waste of time and energy. It won't help men on this website more than a general 'how to write emails' post would.

_____________________________

'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

Nah I am not happy to see you either

(in reply to Whiplashsmile4)
Profile   Post #: 197
RE: An Experiment - 2/7/2010 3:18:35 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		While I don't think that the OP necessarily was malicious in her intent, I'm not necessarily agreeing with the empathy aspect.  Truthfully, you don't have to look very far to see thread after thread dedicated to good advice on how to get a response around here or profile help.  All she did by her actions was prove to herself what most folks have been saying around here for years.  If a thousand people have already said the same thing, is the thousandth and first person really contributing to 'the community'?

Let's remember that within this 'community', there are a number of male Dominants who frequent these boards who have said time and time again that they have a good success rate in contacting others.  They attribute this to very basic concepts.  They read profiles, comment on what is written within it, and ask questions based on common interest in order to encourage response.  It really isn't rocket science to figure this out or hear enough people say the same thing to understand that it works.  If that is too much for someone to comprehend, maybe they had better work more on their social and communication skills before thinking about taking on more complex skills, such as relationships.

I find it very odd that, within discussions where folks constantly sing the praises of honesty within communications, where we talk about integrity and trust, along comes a situation where someone comes along and specifically didn't take that road.   We're quick to condone that behavior.  Really?  When was the last time that you, out there, the reader, had someone lie to you and you were cool with it?






_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to LillyoftheVally)
Profile   Post #: 198
RE: An Experiment - 2/7/2010 3:22:18 AM   
LillyoftheVally


Posts: 1826
Joined: 7/22/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
I find it very odd that, within discussions where folks constantly sing the praises of honesty within communications, where we talk about integrity and trust, along comes a situation where someone comes along and specifically didn't take that road. We're quick to condone that behavior. Really? When was the last time that you, out there, the reader, had someone lie to you and you were cool with it?


I am not sure many people are condoning it to be fair, the OP herself admitted it wasn't a great thing to do and she won't do it again. I think people are saying that there are levels of dishonesty which actually would be an interesting thread topic






_____________________________

'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

Nah I am not happy to see you either

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 199
RE: An Experiment - 2/7/2010 3:26:35 AM   
susie


Posts: 1699
Joined: 11/21/2004
Status: offline 		FR

There are 2 other people on this thead who have admitted setting up fake profiles and messaging people. Why has nobody taken them to task for their dishonesty?

(in reply to LillyoftheVally)
Profile   Post #: 200
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