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Active Dominance....and follow through - 2/9/2010 4:54:02 PM

persephonee

Posts: 5089
Joined: 12/15/2007
Status: offline

Hypothetically speaking, of course.....

How would you address a situation in which you were in an otherwise remarkably healthy or smooth running relationship but you had noticed a distinct drop off in active dominance or follow up regarding...really any ONE issue you can imagine....chores, assignments, what you ask permission to do and what you dont...whatever it is.

Obviously, if it were every single issue, you would need to communicate it...im saying just one issue, but to you an important one.

i know all about ebbs and flows and its not really about the fact that none of us can be "on" 24/7....

i just wonder how much of the internal work CAN effectively be done privately in YOUR own head and how much of that issue MUST be communicated...and at what point?

Maybe im asking how much self disciplining you expect to be doing on your own and how you deal with it when you feel like you might be putting more effort into something than he is or cares to.....

One example would be journalling. Someone i know used to journal as instructed and it was like throwing a note in a bottle and casting it into the void.....she felt horrible about it and talked about it and it really never got resolved...nothing really changed at all in that regard.

i dont even journal at all for Master....it kind of fell off the radar almost a year ago and never really came back up....i blog but i dont even think he is linked to it.....and those arent really private thoughts anyway....

So journalling would be a prime example....for most its a hard task, at the very least, its time consuming....and heartfelt....edited and fussed over.....

So there you are sweating to get something done...only never to hear another word about it....you dont even know for certain its even being read completely thru.....So youre tempted to say, whats the point?....but you keep going.....until.....

When does it stop being your problem with self discipline and start being his lack of follow thru or active dominance? And then how do you handle it?

~mental note...no more Red Bull tonight~

_____________________________

You be the Captain; i'll be no one.

And You can carry me away....if You want to. ~Kasey Chambers

E*Whore, extraordinaire....

Nothing is exactly as it seems~Nor, is it otherwise.

Post #: 1

RE: Active Dominance....and follow through - 2/9/2010 6:47:08 PM

lucylucy

Posts: 612
Joined: 3/1/2009
Status: offline

I probably wouldn't address it. In the journaling example, for instance, the purpose of the journal isn't really for him to read it--it's for you to reflect and grow whether he's reading it or not. It doesn't matter if he reads it or reads it all the way through. I don't journal, but I am required to email my owner every night with some sort of reflection on my day. He rarely responds to my emails and sometimes I wonder if he reads them; every once in a while, he'll mention something I said in an email in conversation. Now I don't know if he read ONLY that email or if he reads all my emails, and it doesn't matter. It pleases him for me to write them. It's not my job to worry about whether he's reading them.

When it comes down to it, you should be journaling because he wants you to, not because he reads it.

Whatever the ONE thing is, I would apply the principles in the journaling example, unless there was a danger involved. Keeping up with the journaling example, let's say I've journaled about emotional issues that he needs to know about to keep from traumatizing me when we play. I would definitely tell him that I needed to talk to him about the emotional issues . . . now that I think about it, even in that situation, I still wouldn't say anything about needing more dominance with the journaling.

In my opinion, if he told me to journal, it's up to me to journal whether he reminds me or not. It's up to him to notice if I slack off (if he cares).

_____________________________

“There are those who give with joy, & that joy is their reward.” Gibran / "Those who are willing to be vulnerable move among mysteries." Roethke / "Let the beauty we love be what we do. There are hundreds of ways to kneel & kiss the ground." Rumi

(in reply to persephonee)

Post #: 2

RE: Active Dominance....and follow through - 2/9/2010 7:22:58 PM

SternFather

Posts: 32
Joined: 4/21/2006
Status: offline

I'd like to offer my opinion here.
Life in Vanilla Land can be mind numbingly tedious and overwhelming for someone who is just plain old responsible for keeping the machinery of life in working order. Dom/Master or civillian. I know that I invest a certain amount of trust in my "partner" that if she has questions she will ask them, and I expect her to be on the same page with me. If I have inadequately explained things that is my problem, but if I don't know that, thats her fault. She needs to raise the issue with me so we can get back on the same page.

I haven't been in a true D/s relationship where the s expects to be punished and its a valued part of the relationship (yet). But if you were my sub, and you thought I was "slacking" I would want you to tell me and not wait around to do it. It might be that I have decided to go with your judgement on the subject, or it might be that I've just been working too hard and forgot I needed to take care of my baby.

Regardless, if you don't have communication you dont have anything.

< Message edited by SternFather -- 2/9/2010 7:24:48 PM >

_____________________________

We keep you alive to serve this ship. Row well, and live.-Arius

Life is pain. Anyone that says different is trying to sell you something.-Dread Pirate Roberts

(in reply to lucylucy)

Post #: 3

RE: Active Dominance....and follow through - 2/9/2010 7:25:53 PM

sunshinemiss

Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline

If it bothers you, talk about it.
If it doesn't REALLY bother you or maybe you get some sort of sideways good out of it, let it go.

Choose your battles... choose your discussions.

I'd wonder if the real issue *in the hypothetical example* was perhaps not so much about a certain activity but instead about the person feeling invisible, unwanted, insecure, etc?

This is where choosing your battles comes into play.

best,
sunshine

_____________________________

Yes, I am a wonton hussy... and still sweet as 3.14

(in reply to lucylucy)

Post #: 4

RE: Active Dominance....and follow through - 2/9/2010 7:27:33 PM

UniqueRaven

Posts: 1237
Joined: 9/30/2009
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline

i've posted this quote before:

"The most dedicated and enduring submissives and slaves are the ones who approach their submission as a healthy furthering of their own self-exploration and personal development, and who remain in touch with, aware of, and maintain responsibility for their own mind-space and the thoughts that happen there (including any choices made that are based on those thoughts)."

As you point out, 24/7 over the long term can't be "on" all the time - it is about evolving together. If a task becomes to much "work" for a Dom, then it is something to be discussed with him - but without hurt feelings, being "let down," etc. It either is working - or it isn't. And if it isn't, then a solution should be found.

Continuing on with hurt feelings and continuing to just have the point reinforced that he isn't "following through" is just a downward spiral.

And the way to not have the hurt feelings is the quote i post above - in my view submission needs to be about the submissive's own journey, not what he imposes on her. Making her submission - and the way she feels about it - contingent upon him as a Dom - and his actions - just puts a lot of pressure on him as a Dom to continue to be exactly what she expects - and no one can do that. We're all human beings, after all.

So to answer your question about "self discipline" and soldiering on even when a submissive thinks her Dom is no longer engaged with her, i think that at the point the submissive is having "those feelings", an honest conversation about needs and how to get back on track is in order. Again, it doesn't have to be a sad thing - just a new baseline.

_____________________________

"My life has no purpose, no direction, no aim, no meaning, and yet I'm happy. I can't figure it out. What am I doing right?" ~Snoopy (Charles Schultz)

My blog is at http://takinghishand.wordpress.com

(in reply to persephonee)

Post #: 5

RE: Active Dominance....and follow through - 2/9/2010 8:28:15 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

Perse, you're defining my relationship.

The Man is laid back. He has certain rules and preferences. But by now, 8 years in he doesn't need to follow up because I've internalized what he wants.

For him to actively dominate now would require making up rules about stuff he doesn't care about and that would just annoy me for no reason.

What does work at this point is random short bits of physical domination during the day. Grab me from behind, toss me down and molest me for a minute, before sending me back to do laundry. Biting my neck until my eyes go glassy and I can't remember what I was saying. Reaching over and pinching a nipple till I yell. Tickling me till I drop to my knees.

But micromanaging for no reason which would piss me off and waste his time? No thanks.

When a situation does occur, he takes charge. The rest of the time we're just an old married type couple, or a well oiled machine.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to UniqueRaven)

Post #: 6

RE: Active Dominance....and follow through - 2/9/2010 9:32:18 PM

catize

Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline

I guess if it concerned me enough I'd ask the dominant if he/she cared about it (whatever it is) anymore and does he/she want me to continue? God knows there is enough real work to be done on any given day, if it is simply 'busy work' I would suggest some other, more productive, tasks I could be doing.

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to persephonee)

Post #: 7

RE: Active Dominance....and follow through - 2/10/2010 5:35:21 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

But yes, if you are in need of him tightening the reins, then ask for it. That's legitimate.
I've been informed that once the kids are out of the house, things will tighten up. I'm hoping that will include maintenance spankings, but I don't know. I do know that works for me though so I shall lobby for it when the time comes.

Talk to him about it. Some stuff I had to do at the beginning has been allowed to fall to the wayside because it has accomplished what he wanted it to do. So if I wouldn't be getting anything more out of it, then why have to do busy work?

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to catize)

Post #: 8

RE: Active Dominance....and follow through - 2/10/2010 6:13:09 AM

lucylucy

Posts: 612
Joined: 3/1/2009
Status: offline

I agree that if it's really bothering you, you should talk to him about it--he probably doesn't know it's bothering you. My owner is basically a "no news is good news" kind of guy, so he assumes everything is hunky dory unless I tell him otherwise.

I do still stand by my original comment, though--you should be doing the journaling (or whatever it is) because he told you to, not because you hope he will read it. If you're doing it primarily in the hopes that he reads it, I would argue that that's not obedience or submission. Your relationship and the roles of obedience and submission may be very different from mine, so whatever your dynamic with your partner is might make my advice irrelevant, but what I've said here is what works for my owner and me.

_____________________________

“There are those who give with joy, & that joy is their reward.” Gibran / "Those who are willing to be vulnerable move among mysteries." Roethke / "Let the beauty we love be what we do. There are hundreds of ways to kneel & kiss the ground." Rumi

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 9

RE: Active Dominance....and follow through - 2/10/2010 7:01:15 AM

UniqueRaven

Posts: 1237
Joined: 9/30/2009
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: lucylucy
I do still stand by my original comment, though--you should be doing the journaling (or whatever it is) because he told you to, not because you hope he will read it. If you're doing it primarily in the hopes that he reads it, I would argue that that's not obedience or submission. Your relationship and the roles of obedience and submission may be very different from mine, so whatever your dynamic with your partner is might make my advice irrelevant, but what I've said here is what works for my owner and me.

i totally agree with this. Submission is an action, and it is one that i am responsible for - regardless of what he chooses to do with me, or not. His choice is just that - his choice.

My submission is my personal journey in life (hence the quote above). i need to be Owned - as much as he needs to Own me. So being obedient and doing what is asked of me, without drama around what my Owner chooses to do, is a large part of my journey as a submissive woman who is owned property as slave.

i've thought a lot over the last years about the need for emotional maturity as a slave - needing to own my own emotions and not making him responsible for them. i think this is something that is "missed" a lot by submissive women, that they come into the relationship expecting that he is going to "fix" all their emotions somehow, and that everything should just be dumped and vented on him, especially when she's not happy with how he is Dominating her (or not). Which isn't true. Being open with your emotions doesn't necessarily imply drama - it's just about being honest, and then talking about those emotions but not necessarily expressing those emotions. But that's another thread.

If any situation becomes intolerable, then it absolutely needs to be discussed. But as lucylucy so well points out - and for me in my dynamic as well - submission is about the action, and not necessarily the outcome.

< Message edited by UniqueRaven -- 2/10/2010 7:03:11 AM >

_____________________________

"My life has no purpose, no direction, no aim, no meaning, and yet I'm happy. I can't figure it out. What am I doing right?" ~Snoopy (Charles Schultz)

My blog is at http://takinghishand.wordpress.com

(in reply to lucylucy)

Post #: 10

RE: Active Dominance....and follow through - 2/10/2010 7:36:13 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

this slave waits for Him to make decisions on what is or isn't being done to His specifications...it isn't her job to evaluate her performance or set the requirements for His dominance of her.

(in reply to persephonee)

Post #: 11

RE: Active Dominance....and follow through - 2/10/2010 7:38:49 AM

persephonee

Posts: 5089
Joined: 12/15/2007
Status: offline

~FR~ to everyone....

i thank you all for your input and its all valid.

i think im in the middle of a growth spurt or on the edge of something....last time i got all buckey with him was the first time he said, no to something that i really wanted to do and totally could have done if not for that pesky M/s thing we've got going....THAT was a short, but firey internal struggle....everyone should be grateful they werent around to see me do the subbie stomp on that day....

Its not like i DONT take responsibility for my own growth or emotions. Its not like im attention seeking.....honestly, we all know what an attention whore i can be....but it isnt that.

We both like our routines, im sooo happy in a contented rut i cant even describe it. And for whatever reason, when i need something shaken up around here, he seems to know it and things get shaken up....all in all, we have a pretty good thing going on.

i think that im suffering from self set expectation disorder....you know what i mean....

And, i am willing to examine that and do the work myself....if only because of the internal conflict that is brought on by not getting your expectation met the way you would want....i like things tranquil...inside and out.

i think the thing im most worried about is creating a routine where i start keeping score on who did what to whom and when and how that rated on a scale of 1-10....those girls really annoy me.

Bleh....its prolly the being stuck inside with a squirrely 7 yr old for days on end cuz there is 6 inches of snow.....(talk about over reaction!)

i would like to keep hearing from people about this....to me, CM is more heavily D/s than M/s or O/p....but this is my home base....and i have YET to even come close to understanding the whole IE thang....or maybe i just havent found my crowd in there yet....but to really integrate that sort of thinking into my personality, i would need to find a niche of real people....who are willing to admit that when you are 24/7, regardless of the dynamic....the arguements or conflicts are pretty fucking vanilla in nature.

If i have an issue, a real issue that constitutes any sort of danger to our relationship, which this is NOT, i honestly dont hesitate to bring it to the forefront....thats only happened one time in a year, so thats got to be a good sign.

i think, out of all the responses, my relationship more mirrors Celeste's....minus the longevity....but we seem to be on course for creating some of that on our own...must admit some jealousy on the ages of her brood....i look at littleboss and resign myself to a long haul there....he still runs into walls and sneaks pickles into his sock drawer in case he gets hungry at night....

_____________________________

You be the Captain; i'll be no one.

And You can carry me away....if You want to. ~Kasey Chambers

E*Whore, extraordinaire....

Nothing is exactly as it seems~Nor, is it otherwise.

(in reply to UniqueRaven)

Post #: 12

RE: Active Dominance....and follow through - 2/10/2010 7:42:42 AM

persephonee

Posts: 5089
Joined: 12/15/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

this slave waits for Him to make decisions on what is or isn't being done to His specifications...it isn't her job to evaluate her performance or set the requirements for His dominance of her.

*points excitedly at beth*....SEE????? im TOTALLY playing the expectation game.....

Now, my question is this....

If you were to accidentally become disappointed internally about something....what on earth do you say to yourself to get yourself to, pardon my french...."knock it the fuck off".....

i really think there has to be some sort of way to turn that thought of disappointment, or whatever it is on its ear, but i just cant touch what it is.....

Help me beth....

_____________________________

You be the Captain; i'll be no one.

And You can carry me away....if You want to. ~Kasey Chambers

E*Whore, extraordinaire....

Nothing is exactly as it seems~Nor, is it otherwise.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 13

RE: Active Dominance....and follow through - 2/10/2010 8:02:54 AM

agirl

Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline

Tricky one.

I'm not submissive, so if he doesn't care about something , I'm unlikely to either. I don't get fired up about doing *stuff* unless it has some relevance. It doesn't have to matter WHAT the relevance IS , as long as there is one and it makes sense to me on SOME level.

Writing a journal. Well, I can see all sorts of benefits to that. It's obviously going to depend on who you're with and how you're used to operating.

It'd be a fat lot of good telling me to *do* anything like that, unless it has a purpose.

If I can't see the purpose I'll say so.*What do you want me to do it for?*. He says why he wants me to, I either agree or disagree, but either way he gets my agreement or, he may insist whether I agree or not. The only bit that could fuck this up, is if I REALLY thought he was just making me do something for NO reason whatsoever that makes any sense to me.

Something on SOME level has to make sense..even if it is * I just want you to do it because it's hard and you'll hate it* That'd be a reason. I might think he's a git , but it's a reason. I'd only get miffed if it's seemingly for NO reason and has NO purpose whatsoever.

We don't tend to have hitches of this kind, as we've both got loads of things on our plates and neither of us has any intention of wasting the other's time on *stuff* that has no purpose and doesn't lead anywhere.

agirl

(in reply to persephonee)

Post #: 14

RE: Active Dominance....and follow through - 2/10/2010 8:06:42 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

I am going to echo beth to an extent. It's not my place to decide the as and when or to tell him how to dominate me.
Master requires that I keep him informed when I require something though and then he decides when and he chooses how. But then, I am blessed... Master is a person who constantly informs me that he has not forgotten, but that it comes in his time. Does that make sense? So I do not have that worry, because he's really cool at keeping me up to date. That goes a long way when establishing active dominance and disposing of expectations. Instead I have realisations... that things do and will get done - but always on his terms.
I believe consistancy is a big provider of security though. Master is always that, so I never have to 'expect' - instead I always 'know'. It provides a solid foundation and takes away worry.

Not that I don't ever worry. I am a terrible worrier. I get stressed really easily - even when there is no stress and I know that 100% and Master knows this and accepts this part of me being the way I am. He just doesn't pander to it - lordy do I know it!

I just have to concentrate that he has things in hand. Might not be the way I would handle, but that's not the point. He is a big advocate of serenity and it is still something I am learning more about every day. When we attach emotion onto stress, it triggers fear and takes away focus. To bring back focus, I take a deep breath and meditate on this because Master instructs it.

Grant me the serenity
To accept the things I cannot change;
The courage to change the things that I can;
And the wisdom to know the difference

the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to persephonee)

Post #: 15

RE: Active Dominance....and follow through - 2/10/2010 8:26:10 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

...If you were to accidentally become disappointed internally about something....what on earth do you say to yourself to get yourself to, pardon my french...."knock it the fuck off".....

i really think there has to be some sort of way to turn that thought of disappointment, or whatever it is on its ear, but i just cant touch what it is.....

Help me beth....

aw, jeez...put a slave on the spot...

it would be diametrically opposed to His nature to NOT insist things be done in the manner that pleases Him---He is very observant, fastidious and vocal---especially when it comes to following HIS rules....and we sleep in the same bed together every night.

not sure what, if anything, this slave could advise that would help you out---submission/submissive is this slave's default state. following the leader, fulfilling the orders, supporting the "front-man" from the wings backstage is like breathing in and out...and it was trained into this slave during childhood and reinforced throughout her life by her dominant family members until she met Master.

so sorry there isn't any magic to it that this slave could share with you.

(in reply to persephonee)

Post #: 16

RE: Active Dominance....and follow through - 2/10/2010 8:28:13 AM

sunshinemiss

Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline

Aunt Fab always says "Love don't keep score."

quote:

i think the thing im most worried about is creating a routine where i start keeping score on who did what to whom and when and how that rated on a scale of 1-10....those girls really annoy me

_____________________________

Yes, I am a wonton hussy... and still sweet as 3.14

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 17

RE: Active Dominance....and follow through - 2/10/2010 8:44:48 AM

persephonee

Posts: 5089
Joined: 12/15/2007
Status: offline

the.dark,

i totally get what you are saying. i do. Thank you.

im starting to think that i get all peaceful inside and thats when i have to pick some obscure random thing to get all worked up over....wouldnt want to be happy or anything, now would i?

ima gonna make Master some cookies and play some UNO with the kid and perhaps get that ironing done....(not too likely, but ya never know....grrrrr)

To clarify to the thread:

this wasnt about journalling or even really a specific issue...it was more a question about general dynamic maintenence....i think we all get stuck sometimes and i was kind of hoping that there were some Hints from Heloise's about it....omg, how the hell old have i GOTTEN??????

_____________________________

You be the Captain; i'll be no one.

And You can carry me away....if You want to. ~Kasey Chambers

E*Whore, extraordinaire....

Nothing is exactly as it seems~Nor, is it otherwise.

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 18

RE: Active Dominance....and follow through - 2/10/2010 8:46:49 AM

persephonee

Posts: 5089
Joined: 12/15/2007
Status: offline

Geez, beth....*sniffle*

But in the end, youre right.

_____________________________

You be the Captain; i'll be no one.

And You can carry me away....if You want to. ~Kasey Chambers

E*Whore, extraordinaire....

Nothing is exactly as it seems~Nor, is it otherwise.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 19

RE: Active Dominance....and follow through - 2/10/2010 8:49:35 AM

persephonee

Posts: 5089
Joined: 12/15/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

Aunt Fab always says "Love don't keep score."

quote:

i think the thing im most worried about is creating a routine where i start keeping score on who did what to whom and when and how that rated on a scale of 1-10....those girls really annoy me

Too bad, too...cuz anyone who has met her has fallen in absolute love with her....and that to me, gives her like, a bajillion points on the scoreboard!

Hugs to Fab and always to you, Sunny.

_____________________________

You be the Captain; i'll be no one.

And You can carry me away....if You want to. ~Kasey Chambers

E*Whore, extraordinaire....

Nothing is exactly as it seems~Nor, is it otherwise.

(in reply to sunshinemiss)

Post #: 20

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