RE: Legally Illegal? (Full Version)

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meatcleaver -> RE: Legally Illegal? (9/7/2006 5:19:50 AM)

That reminds me where's NG this morning? 'Sssh don't tell him, I own several English flags'

It seems Britain has become a country for dirty washing. While not wanting to go back to the bad old days, something has been lost in Britain and I think it is civic pride and I've lived in France, Germany and Holland and all still have a sense of civic pride. Maybe it is the fact that British cities are run by faceless committees of party appointees.



LadyEllen -> RE: Legally Illegal? (9/7/2006 5:58:00 AM)

Maybe. Everything is always someone else's problem.........

The local politics here shows another aspect; Tories are in power, someone complains about litter in the street. Labour and LibDems beat the Tories over litter. Tories point out that litter was in the streets when Labour/LibDems had control. "Not as much litter" is the reply and it goes on.

The litter meanwhile remains in the street, and everyone sees that there is nothing that can be done because nothing ever is done, so there was no point in raising the litter issue in the first place. Cue cynicism and dont care attitude and from there to I might as well do as I like, because everyone else does.
E



UtopianRanger -> RE: Legally Illegal? (9/8/2006 12:39:17 AM)

quote:

I'm always bemused by the "benefits" of outsourcing manufacture to emerging economies, and what we get here in the UK at least, that we can still create wealth within the country by "value added services".


The only benefit is to those who are actually doing outsourcing. The initial euphoria doesn't last very long, because the purchaser of the outsourced product usually figures out while the goods are abnormally *cheap* his standard of living has moved one notch closer down-the-ladder to those who the products have been outsourced to.

quote:

I have yet to understand how it is economically beneficial to society to have thousands of former factory workers, who previously produced tax revenues and spent reasonable wages on other products, now producing no tax revenues but instead reliant on social benefit payments which they then must spend to live but which are far below what they formerly earned. The nett loss difference in the wealth of the country which outsourced manufacture must necessarily involve, must run into billions and billions.


Again, there is no benefit. If you look at the most productive/prosperous times in history for both the US and the UK, they were times when both countries produced upwards of ninety-six percent of the goods they consumed.

From 1965 to Present, the US went from the largest creditor nation to the largest debtor nation. At the very same time....is when we began to outsource our machine-tool sector to both Taiwan and China... and then later to Mexico. It's was also the time when our markets where penetrated with both cheap automobiles and consumer electronics from Asia. Is that mere coincidence?


As said by both Anthony Wedgewood Benn of the UK and Pat Buchanan of the US :
''A nation which no longer produces the goods it consumes has lost its way''


quote:

Right now, our big business leaders think they're pretty clever to have acquired their manufactured products at a fraction of the cost, but they totally ignore the true social and economic cost of all that - but then, they think they'll get rich from it and this is a competitive market society so sod the rest of society.


Of course they do; they're very greedy. I've posted on outsourcing / globalism here on the boards since I began..... And not a single person has EVER been able to deliver a coherent, logical rebuttal that points out long term benefits for the countries/people suffering from the outsourced markets.

I even offered up an example to a gentleman with a PhD on how Argentina corrected/rebounded from ''dollarized'' outsourced, bankrupt economy, by devaluing their own currency by a three to margin and then ''internalizing'' all manufacturing proceses and setting up a nationalistic referendum which says :  ''Our imports will be regulated to raw materials, but the finished product must be manufactured here at home''

He’s a good, smart dude but he had no rebuttal [;)]


 - R



Mercnbeth -> RE: Legally Illegal? (12/15/2006 6:11:56 AM)

Finally, prosecution of employers for hiring illegal workers. I hope they arrest the owners. I don't understand the adamant opinion against a national picture ID card. Starting January you'll need a passport to travel outside the US, even for Canada and Mexico. Why not require a picture or even a fingerprint on the SS card? Maybe this crackdown, which discovered identify theft, will be the catalyst of such action.

The first example is great. Its the company that was contracted to build the fence and it looks like the owners have a good chance of going to jail. Maybe all the letters and calls I make about this are working. This is the right tactic. Go after the employers.

quote:


Fence-building company and its officials will pay a $5 million fine. Jail time is possible.By Elliot Spagat
The Associated Press


SAN DIEGO -- A Southern California fence-building company and two executives pleaded guilty Thursday to knowingly hiring illegal immigrants and agreed to pay a combined penalty of $5 million. The executives could also go to prison. Source: http://www.dailybreeze.com/news/regstate/articles/4924911.html 
 
quote:





Wednesday, December 13, 2006

Nationwide illegal immigrant raid ICE chief Julie L. Myers told reporters in Washington that hundreds of U.S. citizens and legal residents may have had their identities stolen in a scheme designed to help illegal immigrants get jobs at Swift. She said the scheme involved illegal immigrants and others.
No charges had been filed against Swift. In a written statement, President and CEO Sam Rovit said the company has never knowingly hired illegal workers and does not condone the practice. Source: http://www.heraldextra.com/content/view/202876/3/ 



pahunkboy -> RE: Legally Illegal? (12/15/2006 9:56:01 AM)

ok- we were told in 86 this was a one time only --amnesy,

we are greying fast and will need workers for nursing homes.

but in the meantime- how do you double the rolls for any social program- lets take SSI,  1 and 6 US citizens are ON SS. [SS,SSI,SSDI]

where will the money come from?

add to that - all the "american corporations" that are mrely a shell. they are here for our army- but pay tax to the virgin islands or bora bora.

Who pays?

they arent all hard working cheap labor. Do we have any good stats on this?

so this would bankrupt the states. the states might say - if you are on section 8 today- you will stay on the program- to newbies. we can not help you.
this is ALREADY HAPPENING!  it is silent. but many counties wont even take a name for the waiting list.

So here we are.

The peasants shall revolt ???



mgdartist -> RE: Legally Illegal? (12/15/2006 11:51:21 AM)

A few years ago, I was struggling, out of work, and couldn't find a job because they were all being snapped up by illegals who besides working cheaper, were also bi-lingual, which has become a near defacto requirement in my state. With so many hispanics here, illegal and otherwise, they are beginning to not even try to learn english, and often act incredulous or even derisive if you are unable to speak spanish in any retail/public setting, and rely on their children, who've had the advantage of our Public Schools, to talk with the "dumbass gringo". Retailers and other businesses feel they have no choice but to require bilingual skillsets, so if caucasian, it seems we now must learn their language to survive? I had been passed over for a hispanic on several interviews,  and was getting very annoyed with the situation at the border, and while working a part time, 2 night a week job a friend gave me in haberdashery for the meantime, I happened to meet a senior high-ranking Border Patrol officer visiting from a neighboring state.
It didn't take me long to corner him, barely disguising my extreme anger, to ask him;
"What the hell is up with our Border Patrol? Can't they do anything about the prodigeous flow of illegals at the border?"
His answer, albeit seemingly sincere, seemed a bit rehearsed, or at least having been said often before, but nonetheless gave me pause long enough not to accost him further. His twofold reply consisted of:

"First of all, even if we had the manpower to stand men abreast of each other in a line from one end of the border to the other, we STILL couldn't even make a dent in the alien traffick.
Second off, you don't want that...no Americans really do, and if they got it, they'd soon want the illegals back."
"How so?" I asked, stunned.
"Well, let me give you just one small example..." he went on, as though searching for something simple enough for me to understand. "Let's say you wrecked your car, and your insurance agent told you to get some estimates to have it fixed. First place you go- $1400 and the man says he can have it ready for you in just over a week. The next place you go, the man says $1200, and he can "git 'er dun" for you by the next day...Which one you gonna go with?"
"The second one, obviously" I replied.
"That's right, " said he, "and the fella gettin' you fixed up by the next day is gonna be hispanic, guaranteed"

Obviously the hispanic work ethic puts most caucasian Americans to shame.  Most of them want to work 7 days a week, often having construction jobs all weekdays, and some sort of part-time or small enterprise going every single weekend. If he's married, his wife the same, but usually a separate business/job of her own. Whenever possible, the kids are with them, to save on babysitting,  and if you've never experienced a bunch of highly energetic, loud,  but bored mexican kids find mischeivous ways to amuse themselves...lol, well I don't recommend it.

While I agree for the most part with the OP's legitimate concerns and obvious discrepancies  and abridgements of our laws, and the ensueing problems he points out, in our economy and society,  from what I've seen, it's just wa-ay too fuckin' late. These people, once here, aren't going anywhere. Rounding them up and deporting them? ha. good luck! You'd have one helluva fight on your hands,  and until the influx is stopped, there's little point, as they'd just turn around and head back, and get back in easily.  Enforcing various immigration laws? Get for real. The INS has even less manpower than the IRS. They are seriously understaffed, and even more under-motivated.

All this talk of immigration reform here of late I actually find humorous. !0, 20 years ago ..shit even 30 would have been perhaps a believable time to take such actions...but now? Jesus, it's a joke.  Not sure what the census currently is, but I,  an ole' gringo,  sure feel like I'm the fuckin' minority. We've been overrun. They stick together, and they're dug in.

The one thing I watch them do constantly, which I find somewhat scary, is anytime I'm doing transactions for money orders etc. at the store, I'm waiting behind several of them to wire the lions share of their earnings back to Mexico. If you think it's just a trickling fraction of our GNP, you're sadly mistaken. This country's capital is being sent elsewhere (mostly southward) in the trillions. Just putting a stop to that would be a huge step in the right direction. And perhaps passing legislation to assure affirmative action for American natives, especially white, non-bilingual citizens....lol, may be funny, but that's mine, and many others reality.

F me, guess I gotta learn Spanish.. like it or not.
pinchy-puto galvrons...
lol.

PS. Mexicans aren't a bad lot,  Despite whatever their legal status might be.  Please don't take any comments I might have stated above as bigotry.
Fact is, I often wonder if we couldnt learn a thing or 2 from them.
MGD




MasterKalif -> RE: Legally Illegal? (12/15/2006 1:12:09 PM)

I dislike the term "illegal" when it comes to foreigners who are simply looking to work...sorry but I just don't agree with it....this is the only country in the world whereby it is a "crime" for someone to work without government permission....because the US government considers it illegal, does not mean I will....I seem to remember a time when it was illegal for black people to sit in the back of the bus....yes laws are not absolute truths, they can be changed at the behest of the citizens. I think the United States needs to make it easier for educated immigrants (people with college degrees and advanced degrees) to work in this country same with foreign students....the whole immigration law needs to be reformed in my opinion. I also however agree with mercandbeth in terms of reciprocity; if Mexico treats illegals a certain way (I doubt they would treat Americans like that though) then the US should be able to do the same with citizens of that particular country...

I would not say this, however I state all of this because I believe the United States is a nation of immigrants, not like in Europe or elsewhere.

ps- I also think foreign students have a right to voice their opinion....they might also come from free societies you know....the US isn't the only one....however they should be expelled if they partake in riots, looting, and other petty crimes.



LTRsubNW -> RE: Legally Illegal? (12/15/2006 1:54:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheTopHat

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Someone help me with this please? Confusion is raining in my pragmatic brain.

If you are in the country illegally how can you openly and VERY publicly protest about the consequences of your illegal action becoming more serious? How can the police that are being paid by citizen's taxes, protect versus verify, and if here illegally, collect them and taking them back across the border?

How can ANY person, especially the young "unmentionables", grow to respect any law with this example? The people may be immigrants looking for the "American Dream", but the bottom line is they are ILLEGAL immigrants. Amazingly they and their supporters don't argue that fact, they just don't think it's "fair".

Also, if you are from a different country what are the consequences of illegally immigrating to your country? Taking one at random, Mexico, the law of Mexico requires immediate incarceration, fine, and eventual deportation; after serving the time in a Mexican prison. Reciprocity anyone?

Randomly picked reference: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/I/IMMIGRATION_RALLIES?SITE=7219&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2006-03-25-02-15-35

(Doesn't everyone love the "new and improved" linking method?)


The American revolution was illegal, was it fair? Japanese detention camps were legal, were they fair? McArthyism was legal, was it fair?


My ex wife is still breathing.  Is that fair?  I can't legally shoot her.  Is that fair?



NobleOne -> RE: Legally Illegal? (12/15/2006 2:30:15 PM)




  



Mercnbeth -> RE: Legally Illegal? (12/17/2006 6:49:03 AM)

quote:

I dislike the term "illegal" when it comes to foreigners who are simply looking to work...sorry but I just don't agree with it....


Kalif,
A person don't have money; he steals some. Should his theft be called illegal? I know there is an aversion to the pragmatic, but in this case it defines the problem. There is no problem with people receiving legal immigration status. Contributing to the problem of legal immigration is the fact of so many entering illegally. Your premise that the "US need to make it easier for educated immigrants..." is much more prejudicial than the pragmatic - If you do something that is against the law the action is illegal and you are a criminal.

Similarly "students" should be students. Make the 'test' as basic as do the insurance companies. For my son to be a 'student' and therefore covered under my family health policy he must be full time and take a minimum of 12 credits. The 'student' test will close yet another loophole.

Yes the US is a nation of immigrants; invited immigrants, legal immigrants. In 2006-07 we should be a nation of laws. Some would say we can be selective in their enforcement. Selective enforcement of some laws makes all laws subject to personal interpretation and rationalization about obeying them. The word for that is anarchy. It is against the law to hire an illegal worker. The companies that hire them should be punished severely and their ownership arrested for doing so.

quote:

My ex wife is still breathing.  Is that fair?  I can't legally shoot her.  Is that fair?


Sure you can - but it is illegal and get caught you go to jail. "Fair" is a place that has a ferris wheel. It doesn't exist outside it's gates.



meatcleaver -> RE: Legally Illegal? (12/17/2006 8:02:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterKalif

I dislike the term "illegal" when it comes to foreigners who are simply looking to work...sorry but I just don't agree with it....this is the only country in the world whereby it is a "crime" for someone to work without government permission....because the US government considers it illegal, does not mean I will....I seem to remember a time when it was illegal for black people to sit in the back of the bus....yes laws are not absolute truths, they can be changed at the behest of the citizens. I think the United States needs to make it easier for educated immigrants (people with college degrees and advanced degrees) to work in this country same with foreign students....the whole immigration law needs to be reformed in my opinion. I also however agree with mercandbeth in terms of reciprocity; if Mexico treats illegals a certain way (I doubt they would treat Americans like that though) then the US should be able to do the same with citizens of that particular country...

I would not say this, however I state all of this because I believe the United States is a nation of immigrants, not like in Europe or elsewhere.

ps- I also think foreign students have a right to voice their opinion....they might also come from free societies you know....the US isn't the only one....however they should be expelled if they partake in riots, looting, and other petty crimes.


I'm in total agreements with your sentiments. It wouldn't surprise me if half the people on the street I live on are illegal, does it bother me? No. What is scary about people who want a better life for themselves? They run the gauntlet of exploitation and deportation, I'm not going to make their life worse by condemning them or shopping them.

And yes. Everyone should have the right to air their views in a free society, even illegal immigrants and foreigners. I've found that when illegals or foreigners have said something that wrankles me, it is usually because they have hit a nerve.



eyesopened -> RE: Legally Illegal? (12/17/2006 8:19:50 AM)

please excuse me but check your facts again.  i can't think of a country that doesn't have immigration laws and the need to have "government" permission to work in their country.  The US allows more guest-workers and LEGAL immigrants than any other country on earth.  When my unmentionable got hired for his first job the company couldn't hire him because his social security number was already in use by someone else!!  It was up to my SON to get it straightened out, get a credit check to make sure the identy theif hadn't ruined his credit.  i hate to sound like a bigot but the person using my son's SSN "weren't from around here" as they say in the South.  The problem with ILLEGAL immigrants is so far-reaching that it boggles the mind.

Look at it this way... i should be able to climb a fence and break into and move into anyone's house i choose just because i want to live in a nicer house. It is my right to live in a nicer house!  The homeowner should be forced to keep me living in their house and provide me with the same benefits of their own family.  The difference between legal and illegal immigrants is the difference between someone breaking into your house or knocking on the door and waiting to be invited in.  Why is it illegal to break into my home but not illegal to break into my country?  BTW my grandfather came here the legal way, studied hard, became a citizen and insisted he, my grandmother and my mother speak only English even in their home. 

Want facts? Check out Burning Atlanta dot com for actual facts and figures pulled from a variety of creditable sources.



meatcleaver -> RE: Legally Illegal? (12/17/2006 8:37:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

Look at it this way... i should be able to climb a fence and break into and move into anyone's house i choose just because i want to live in a nicer house. It is my right to live in a nicer house!  The homeowner should be forced to keep me living in their house and provide me with the same benefits of their own family.  The difference between legal and illegal immigrants is the difference between someone breaking into your house or knocking on the door and waiting to be invited in.  Why is it illegal to break into my home but not illegal to break into my country?  BTW my grandfather came here the legal way, studied hard, became a citizen and insisted he, my grandmother and my mother speak only English even in their home. 



This metaphor is spurious or if you want to use it, people are coming into your house for several reasons. One is that someone is letting them in because they want them to clean their shit and two, they are coming in because someone in your household keeps breaking and entering other people's households and pinching their fuel and furniture. If you want to pull up the drawbridge and live in happy isolation then you should do it but don't tread your muddy boots into other people's households.



eyesopened -> RE: Legally Illegal? (12/17/2006 3:16:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

Look at it this way... i should be able to climb a fence and break into and move into anyone's house i choose just because i want to live in a nicer house. It is my right to live in a nicer house!  The homeowner should be forced to keep me living in their house and provide me with the same benefits of their own family.  The difference between legal and illegal immigrants is the difference between someone breaking into your house or knocking on the door and waiting to be invited in.  Why is it illegal to break into my home but not illegal to break into my country?  BTW my grandfather came here the legal way, studied hard, became a citizen and insisted he, my grandmother and my mother speak only English even in their home. 



This metaphor is spurious or if you want to use it, people are coming into your house for several reasons. One is that someone is letting them in because they want them to clean their shit and two, they are coming in because someone in your household keeps breaking and entering other people's households and pinching their fuel and furniture. If you want to pull up the drawbridge and live in happy isolation then you should do it but don't tread your muddy boots into other people's households.


i fully agree that the US should immediately pull ALL troops out of other countries as they are perfectly capable of defending themselves.  i wish the US would quit giving money and aid to people who hate us.  i fully agree with you that the US should stay home and allow our own unemployed to do the "shit" work the unemployed so desperately want to do.  But i wonder why, since the US is the evil empire why so many people want to live here.  Shame on them!



meatcleaver -> RE: Legally Illegal? (12/17/2006 3:47:16 PM)

Aid (just about all donor countries are guilty) is given with strings attached and benefits the donor nation more than the nation receiving the aid.



eyesopened -> RE: Legally Illegal? (12/17/2006 4:36:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

Aid (just about all donor countries are guilty) is given with strings attached and benefits the donor nation more than the nation receiving the aid.


Exactly!  And next time a natural disaster strikes the governments of the disaster-struck country should absolutely refuse any and all US aid!  This acceptance of aid needs to stop in order to stop the obvious exploitation of their country by supplying them with food, blood, medicine etc.  How terrible!



meatcleaver -> RE: Legally Illegal? (12/17/2006 4:58:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

Aid (just about all donor countries are guilty) is given with strings attached and benefits the donor nation more than the nation receiving the aid.


Exactly!  And next time a natural disaster strikes the governments of the disaster-struck country should absolutely refuse any and all US aid!  This acceptance of aid needs to stop in order to stop the obvious exploitation of their country by supplying them with food, blood, medicine etc.  How terrible!



You should really look into it. Such trantrums just show you know nothing about how foreign aid works, which isn't the same as emergency aid.



eyesopened -> RE: Legally Illegal? (12/18/2006 1:54:37 AM)

quote:

this is the only country in the world whereby it is a "crime" for someone to work without government permission.


MasterKalif made this as a statement without backing documentation.  Meatcleaver echoed it and it is just plain untrue.

Perhaps one of these fine Gentlemen can supply a list of countries that does not require work visas, student visas or has immigration laws.  The United States issues more work visas, student visas and allows more legal immigrants than any other country on this planet. While you're at it please provide a list of jobs that US citizens refuse to do.   If i am wrong, please provide me with proof that i am wrong and i will happily submit to my humiliation.

Table 1. Legal immigration to the United States: 1901 to 1998 (source: 1998 INS Yearbook) YearsLegal Immigrates1901-108,795,3861911-205,735,8111921-304,107,2091931-40528,4311941-501,035,0391951-602,515,4791961-703,321,6771971-804,493,3141981-907,338,0621991-987,605,068
The current figures are estimated to be over 10million LEGAL immigrants per year.  And according to the Pew Study over 80% of Mexicans entering the US illegally already had jobs in Mexico, so the "just looking for work" arguement just doesn't fly.



thompsonx -> RE: Legally Illegal? (12/18/2006 7:19:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheTopHat
The American constitution is crafted so that people can oppose to laws that they believe are unfair -- that is the essential point to freedom of expression.  If I don't agree with something, be it my governments policy or its laws I can (and as a good citizen should) express my opinion and rally to change it. 


Agreed but..........welcome to California.  The citizenry overwhelmingly voted to oppose giving legal rights (including school and medical care, paid for by the legal taxpayers of the state, including legal immigrants) to illegal  immigrants flooding in from Mexico. The courts overturned the vote.


ownedgirlie:
The schools in California are paid for by property taxes.  Unless you live in a dumpster or under a bridge you pay property taxes.  Rentors pay the landlords property tax with thier rents.  That is why the courts struck down the law.  The illegal aliens pay rent.  The illegal aliens pay taxes therefore they are entitled to the services that those taxes support.  The fact is that all too often the taxes are witheld from the workers pay but never remited to the government.
thompson



thompsonx -> RE: Legally Illegal? (12/18/2006 7:50:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mgdartist

A few years ago, I was struggling, out of work, and couldn't find a job because they were all being snapped up by illegals who besides working cheaper, were also bi-lingual, which has become a near defacto requirement in my state. With so many hispanics here, illegal and otherwise, they are beginning to not even try to learn english, and often act incredulous or even derisive if you are unable to speak spanish in any retail/public setting, and rely on their children, who've had the advantage of our Public Schools, to talk with the "dumbass gringo". Retailers and other businesses feel they have no choice but to require bilingual skillsets, so if caucasian, it seems we now must learn their language to survive? I had been passed over for a hispanic on several interviews,  and was getting very annoyed with the situation at the border, and while working a part time, 2 night a week job a friend gave me in haberdashery for the meantime, I happened to meet a senior high-ranking Border Patrol officer visiting from a neighboring state.
It didn't take me long to corner him, barely disguising my extreme anger, to ask him;
"What the hell is up with our Border Patrol? Can't they do anything about the prodigeous flow of illegals at the border?"
His answer, albeit seemingly sincere, seemed a bit rehearsed, or at least having been said often before, but nonetheless gave me pause long enough not to accost him further. His twofold reply consisted of:

"First of all, even if we had the manpower to stand men abreast of each other in a line from one end of the border to the other, we STILL couldn't even make a dent in the alien traffick.
Second off, you don't want that...no Americans really do, and if they got it, they'd soon want the illegals back."
"How so?" I asked, stunned.
"Well, let me give you just one small example..." he went on, as though searching for something simple enough for me to understand. "Let's say you wrecked your car, and your insurance agent told you to get some estimates to have it fixed. First place you go- $1400 and the man says he can have it ready for you in just over a week. The next place you go, the man says $1200, and he can "git 'er dun" for you by the next day...Which one you gonna go with?"
"The second one, obviously" I replied.
"That's right, " said he, "and the fella gettin' you fixed up by the next day is gonna be hispanic, guaranteed"

Obviously the hispanic work ethic puts most caucasian Americans to shame.  Most of them want to work 7 days a week, often having construction jobs all weekdays, and some sort of part-time or small enterprise going every single weekend. If he's married, his wife the same, but usually a separate business/job of her own. Whenever possible, the kids are with them, to save on babysitting,  and if you've never experienced a bunch of highly energetic, loud,  but bored mexican kids find mischeivous ways to amuse themselves...lol, well I don't recommend it.

While I agree for the most part with the OP's legitimate concerns and obvious discrepancies  and abridgements of our laws, and the ensueing problems he points out, in our economy and society,  from what I've seen, it's just wa-ay too fuckin' late. These people, once here, aren't going anywhere. Rounding them up and deporting them? ha. good luck! You'd have one helluva fight on your hands,  and until the influx is stopped, there's little point, as they'd just turn around and head back, and get back in easily.  Enforcing various immigration laws? Get for real. The INS has even less manpower than the IRS. They are seriously understaffed, and even more under-motivated.

All this talk of immigration reform here of late I actually find humorous. !0, 20 years ago ..shit even 30 would have been perhaps a believable time to take such actions...but now? Jesus, it's a joke.  Not sure what the census currently is, but I,  an ole' gringo,  sure feel like I'm the fuckin' minority. We've been overrun. They stick together, and they're dug in.

The one thing I watch them do constantly, which I find somewhat scary, is anytime I'm doing transactions for money orders etc. at the store, I'm waiting behind several of them to wire the lions share of their earnings back to Mexico. If you think it's just a trickling fraction of our GNP, you're sadly mistaken. This country's capital is being sent elsewhere (mostly southward) in the trillions. Just putting a stop to that would be a huge step in the right direction. And perhaps passing legislation to assure affirmative action for American natives, especially white, non-bilingual citizens....lol, may be funny, but that's mine, and many others reality.

F me, guess I gotta learn Spanish.. like it or not.
pinchy-puto galvrons...
lol.

PS. Mexicans aren't a bad lot,  Despite whatever their legal status might be.  Please don't take any comments I might have stated above as bigotry.
Fact is, I often wonder if we couldnt learn a thing or 2 from them.
MGD




mgdartist:
I found your post to be more than a little difficult to understand. In addition to the ultra small type I noticed that you find yourself unable to get a job washing dishes or bussing tables because the bilingual hispanics have scooped all these high paying prestigious jobs up.  You then go on to state that these same bilingual folks cannot speak english and are offended that you cannot speak spanish (shaking head in consternation).  The part about these folks sending money back home to their families confuses me.  Do they not have the same right to spend their money as you or I?
Now before you go and shoot yourself in the foot you might want to consider that California is the sixth largest economy in the world.  California's number one customer is Mexico not the U.S.
Being multi lingual  has long been a halmark of an educated person.  When I went to high school in Calilfornia a foriegn language was required to graduate.  When I went to university in California a foriegn language was required (could not be the same language that you took in high school) to graduate.  You appear to be saying that  you are either a high school drop out  or someone who cheated to get his diploma.
As I have said before in other post ...the only way to deal effectively with illegal immigration is to raise the minimum wage to the point that citizens will take the jobs that illegals now take and use the forfieture laws to sanction the employers of undocumented labor.
thompson



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