quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

please excuse me but check your facts again.  i can't think of a country that doesn't have immigration laws and the need to have "government" permission to work in their country.  The US allows more guest-workers and LEGAL immigrants than any other country on earth.  When my unmentionable got hired for his first job the company couldn't hire him because his social security number was already in use by someone else!!  It was up to my SON to get it straightened out, get a credit check to make sure the identy theif hadn't ruined his credit.  i hate to sound like a bigot but the person using my son's SSN "weren't from around here" as they say in the South.  The problem with ILLEGAL immigrants is so far-reaching that it boggles the mind.

Look at it this way... i should be able to climb a fence and break into and move into anyone's house i choose just because i want to live in a nicer house. It is my right to live in a nicer house!  The homeowner should be forced to keep me living in their house and provide me with the same benefits of their own family.  The difference between legal and illegal immigrants is the difference between someone breaking into your house or knocking on the door and waiting to be invited in.  Why is it illegal to break into my home but not illegal to break into my country?  BTW my grandfather came here the legal way, studied hard, became a citizen and insisted he, my grandmother and my mother speak only English even in their home. 

Want facts? Check out Burning Atlanta dot com for actual facts and figures pulled from a variety of creditable sources.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
Being multi lingual  has long been a halmark of an educated person.  When I went to high school in Calilfornia a foriegn language was required to graduate.  When I went to university in California a foriegn language was required (could not be the same language that you took in high school) to graduate.  You appear to be saying that  you are either a high school drop out  or someone who cheated to get his diploma.

quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
Being multi lingual  has long been a halmark of an educated person.  When I went to high school in Calilfornia a foriegn language was required to graduate.  When I went to university in California a foriegn language was required (could not be the same language that you took in high school) to graduate.  You appear to be saying that  you are either a high school drop out  or someone who cheated to get his diploma.

Being multi-lingual has long been a hallmark of spending periods of time living in other countries. 

I had 4 years of spanish in high school.  I earned all A's and B's but I couldn't speak fluent spanish if my life depended upon it.  I graduated high school in a class of about 250 and the only graduates who were bi-lingual in any given language were those whose parents spoke a second language to them in the home and in the family. 
High school language classes do not graduate us as bilinguals.  They graduate us with some knowledge of vocabulary and sentence structure; not conversational language.  At least not where I went to school.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
Being multi lingual  has long been a halmark of an educated person.  When I went to high school in Calilfornia a foriegn language was required to graduate.  When I went to university in California a foriegn language was required (could not be the same language that you took in high school) to graduate.  You appear to be saying that  you are either a high school drop out  or someone who cheated to get his diploma.

Being multi-lingual has long been a hallmark of spending periods of time living in other countries. 

I had 4 years of spanish in high school.  I earned all A's and B's but I couldn't speak fluent spanish if my life depended upon it.  I graduated high school in a class of about 250 and the only graduates who were bi-lingual in any given language were those whose parents spoke a second language to them in the home and in the family. 
High school language classes do not graduate us as bilinguals.  They graduate us with some knowledge of vocabulary and sentence structure; not conversational language.  At least not where I went to school.

marieToo:
It would appear that you got your A's and B's for something other than scholarship.
thompson

quote:

w can ANY person, especially the young "unmentionables", grow to respect any law with this example?

quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
Being multi lingual  has long been a halmark of an educated person.  When I went to high school in Calilfornia a foriegn language was required to graduate.  When I went to university in California a foriegn language was required (could not be the same language that you took in high school) to graduate.  You appear to be saying that  you are either a high school drop out  or someone who cheated to get his diploma.

Being multi-lingual has long been a hallmark of spending periods of time living in other countries. 

I had 4 years of spanish in high school.  I earned all A's and B's but I couldn't speak fluent spanish if my life depended upon it.  I graduated high school in a class of about 250 and the only graduates who were bi-lingual in any given language were those whose parents spoke a second language to them in the home and in the family. 
High school language classes do not graduate us as bilinguals.  They graduate us with some knowledge of vocabulary and sentence structure; not conversational language.  At least not where I went to school.

marieToo:
It would appear that you got your A's and B's for something other than scholarship.
thompson

Ok so maybe I blew my spanish teacher a few times, but he still spoke to me only in English.

quote:

It would appear that you are unaware of how the U.S. acquired California,Arizona.New Mexico,Colorado,Nevada and Texas.  It would seem  to fit your metaphore.  Why is it right for us and not for them?

quote:

What other laws of a country are superseded by the past?

quote:


Illegal workers are stealing jobs and/or opportunities from the citizens of this country.

quote:

Illegal workers are stealing jobs and/or opportunities from the citizens of this country.

quote:

According to the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents, 261 people were arrested Tuesday at Swift & Co.'s meat processing plant raid in Greeley. The positions left open by the detainees brought many people seeking employment at the Swift & Co. processing plant.

Josh Solis, 37, formerly of California, stood in line at the Employment Services of Weld County along with about 40 other people in search of jobs on Thursday. Most of the people were waiting in line for an application from Swift & Co., very few were seeking employment elsewhere. Source: http://www.greeleytrib.com/article/20061215/NEWS/112140115

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
General point.
The irony of the people that are complaining on this thread is that many would call themselves capitalist yet they are complaining about capitalism in action.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

It would appear that you are unaware of how the U.S. acquired California,Arizona.New Mexico,Colorado,Nevada and Texas.  It would seem  to fit your metaphore.  Why is it right for us and not for them?

thompson,
History dictates if laws of a country should be honored or not? What other laws of a country are superseded by the past? Rome conquered most of the world, killing, raping and plundering. By your logic, everyone impacted should be able to go into Italy and take whatever they want. If anyone in family's history were murdered are you entitled to murder someone without consequence? Have something stolen? Just go to your neighbors and take his.

The past excuses the present? Where I grew up the area that I lived wasn't developed. There wasn't a stop sign at an intersection where there is now a four lane, light controlled turn. If I blew through a red light at the intersection how far would my defense get if I said; "this intersection didn't used to have a light?". History is irrelevant except for those who need it to interject irrelevant tangents to a factual reality. In this instance - It's illegal to be in the US without a Visa. 

It is amazing that the inclusion of an irrelevant tangent is used to justify current lawlessness. Illegal isn't a question of history or how we got here - it is. Rationalizing the 'poor man' stealing bread makes a good story, but what of the 'poor shop keeper'? Does he get to deduct the amount stolen from the supplier?

Illegal workers are stealing jobs and/or opportunities from the citizens of this country. This country how it exists today. This countries laws as they exist today. My sympathy toward them extends as far as providing them a safe return to their country of origin and eliminating by fines and imprisonment the people and corporations that exploit them. Those that welcome and support illegal entry and illegal workers are supporting their continued exploitation.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

I don't understand MC, is application of law a capitalist idea?

quote:

ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger

Exactly.  This is the key to the whole crisis.  I think a madatory five-year-sentence for the first offense would send a pretty good message.


- The Ranger

http://news.yahoo.com/fc/us/immigration

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

please excuse me but check your facts again.  i can't think of a country that doesn't have immigration laws and the need to have "government" permission to work in their country.  The US allows more guest-workers and LEGAL immigrants than any other country on earth.  When my unmentionable got hired for his first job the company couldn't hire him because his social security number was already in use by someone else!!  It was up to my SON to get it straightened out, get a credit check to make sure the identy theif hadn't ruined his credit.  i hate to sound like a bigot but the person using my son's SSN "weren't from around here" as they say in the South.  The problem with ILLEGAL immigrants is so far-reaching that it boggles the mind.

Look at it this way... i should be able to climb a fence and break into and move into anyone's house i choose just because i want to live in a nicer house. It is my right to live in a nicer house!  The homeowner should be forced to keep me living in their house and provide me with the same benefits of their own family.  The difference between legal and illegal immigrants is the difference between someone breaking into your house or knocking on the door and waiting to be invited in.  Why is it illegal to break into my home but not illegal to break into my country?  BTW my grandfather came here the legal way, studied hard, became a citizen and insisted he, my grandmother and my mother speak only English even in their home. 

Want facts? Check out Burning Atlanta dot com for actual facts and figures pulled from a variety of creditable sources.

eyesopened:
It would appear that you are unaware of how the U.S. acquired California,Arizona.New Mexico,Colorado,Nevada and Texas.  It would seem  to fit your metaphore.  Why is it right for us and not for them?
thompson

The legal framework we use to deal with people who want to visit or live in this country represents us at our worst."

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

farglebargle,
Have no idea who the "man" is however, in respect to this quote:

Not "Man", "THE Man"...

"The Man" is a pejorative slang phrase used by the counterculture to describe higher authority. This "Man" does not usually refer to a specific individual as such, but instead to the government, leaders of large corporations, and other authority figures in general, such as the police. The Man is colloquially defined as the figurative person who controls our world. The Man is also often used as a symbol of racial oppression.

The phrase "the Man is keeping me down" is commonly used to describe perceived oppression, but in modern times it is most often used facetiously in an ironically resigned fashion. The phrase "stick it to the Man" encourages resistance to authority, and essentially means "fight back" or "resist"; however, this is also used facetiously sometimes.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
farglebargle,
Have no idea who the "man" is however, in respect to this quote:

Not "Man", "THE Man"...

"The Man" is a pejorative slang phrase used by the counterculture to describe higher authority. This "Man" does not usually refer to a specific individual as such, but instead to the government, leaders of large corporations, and other authority figures in general, such as the police. The Man is colloquially defined as the figurative person who controls our world. The Man is also often used as a symbol of racial oppression.

The phrase "the Man is keeping me down" is commonly used to describe perceived oppression, but in modern times it is most often used facetiously in an ironically resigned fashion. The phrase "stick it to the Man" encourages resistance to authority, and essentially means "fight back" or "resist"; however, this is also used facetiously sometimes.

Therefor "The Man" in this case is the Mexican government who would have to take care of their citizens if the US enforced its laws and provided access to jobs for US citizens - right?

If so - I'm with you!

Meanwhile, this is GREAT to see! Finally enforcement at the executive level. It's an abuse of the RICO statute; however this should put some fear in the minds of all companies and their executives who use the weak identification verification process as an excuse to hire illegal immigrates to replace US citizen workers.

quote:

The lawsuit alleges that Swift executives "actively sought to locate these illegal immigrants and hire them -- knowing full well that it was in violation of the immigration laws of the United States to do so." The lawsuit also accuses the company of transporting, smuggling, harboring and concealing illegal immigrants. Source:  http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/stories/2006/12/18/daily8.html

(in reply to farglebargle)

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

In the latter part of the 90s US citizens in Allendale County, SC, rode a bus line specifically set up to trasport workers to Hilton Head Island some two hours away.  The jobs?  Busperson, hotel maid, beach racker, landscape maintenance, etc.  From the SC Legislative Audit Council of 1998 :
"For example, Allendale County was cited in The Wall Street Journal as having particular problems with transportation. According to the article, workers who have different shifts commute 90 minutes each way in a car pool and stay 14½ hours until they all are finished working. A bus, the only public transportation, makes one trip of two hours each way per day to take other workers to their jobs at Hilton Head. The article points out that there are very few jobs in Allendale so clients are forced to make long commutes to be employed." 
i lived in the area and remembered seeing the bus.  By 2001 the bus line became defunct due to jobs ("shit jobs" as one poster commented) once held by these people so despereate for work that they would endure anything to have the jobs, now replaced by hispanic illegals workers. Please note that these jobs were being held by US Citizens, not jobs no one wanted!  Whose fault?  The working poor who rode 2 hours each way just to work?  The illegals who were able to replace the US citizens?  Or the resorts and hotels who hired the illegals?  The employers make a photocopy of a Social Security card and that's it.  A card that has absolutely no safegards against tampering or counterfeiting.  SSA has a progam in place to check SS numbers but the employers don't use it.  Why?  Because there is no incentive to do so.  Until we remove the monetary incentive for employers to employ the illegal worker, stop paying for social services to people entering the US illegally, we will not resolve the problem.  You can't stop a skunk from coming into your yard if you keep putting out food for it.