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RE: No limit slaves - 3/28/2006 7:35:59 PM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

Also another great examples of how we can't take for granted when any one term means because we each will use them differently.

For me, a submissive's first duty would be to obey; the slave's is to make life easier and better.

And i can only accomplish that by obeying. i may have an idea of what i think will benefit him, but i will always ask before just doing something (unless of course it's something like writing him a story, which he so enjoys, or buying him a little gift). When i ask, he decides. When he has decided, i obey that decision. i do strive to make his life easier & better, but i think you have the cart before the horse here. i accomplish that in my obedience.

By my model, a slave need not ask, a slave would know what to do and when to do it. This isn't accomplished in a short period of time, it takes years to get to that point and at that point the question of obedience or disobedience starts to become irrevelant. There is nothing to obey or not when the focus is on the owner and the owner's best interests.

Again, only my models and my definitions. I'm finding it strange that some of you seem to think it applies to you and my making some judgement about how you serve or the models you follow. I'm very sorry if my words have suggested this; wasn't my intent.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 101

RE: No limit slaves - 3/28/2006 7:38:59 PM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
I'd disobey for a lot of people's good. Let's say my master told me to sit and be quiet outside a cafe one day. I could see a robber and be able to shout to someone to watch out or get help or run to a nearby police person.

Or I could see someone about to walk in front of a car and be able to shout at them or yank them up. I'd even do this if I perhaps were carrying things for my owner and it would require me to drop them- thus creating more work and perhaps damaging things that belong to my owner.

I wouldn't even THINK or PROCESS it, I'd just do it.

I'd be willing to disobey just for total stranger. If that makes me a bad slave, I'm ok with that.

If i did that i would be obeying the command to have common sense. ;)

On the flip side, one night my Master was talking to me and said "Stand there." as he had me stand by the bed while he lay down to talk. In the course of talking, he fell asleep....and did not wake up until morning...and saw me standing there. Some might call that foolish. But the look on his face and his ensuing remarks about dedication and devotion and obedience, and his own pride...well, i didn't feel so foolish. He told me later i could have given any number of excuses for just laying down and going to sleep, but i didn't. Some could say that didn't make his life better because he had a tired slave who would not be able to fulfill his plans for me that morning. But he said his life was better by knowing what kind of slave he had.

And that is his call (and yours) to make for your relationship. That is not necessarily how everyone would react in the same situation.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 102

RE: No limit slaves - 3/28/2006 7:59:24 PM

littlesarbonn

Posts: 1710
Joined: 12/3/2005
From: Stockton, California
Status: offline

There is a lot of condemnation about using "no limits" in seeking a relationship. I personally believe much of this condemnation is an overachieving usage of nomenclature and dictionary-driven responses rather than rationality. In many of these relationships where a submissive and a dominant have worked out "no limits", to them that's exactly what it is. They're putting forth the conceptual idea that the submissive will do whatever the dominant asks of him or her. There's a very obvious expectation that the dominant isn't going to ask the submissive to do something so outrageous that it would cause an immediate destruction of the relationship.

In reality, most of these are "no limits" with unspoken caveats. But unfortunately, their fantasy of believing they are in a reality of "no limits" is constantly devastated by people who refuse to allow such wording to take place because even though they're not involved in any way, shape or form, they have to put in their perspective and condemn it as the ultimate bdsm sin (or at least high on the list).

It's the same thing with TPE discussions. The outsiders are never satisfied until they can walk away from a conversation, convinced that they "won" an argument over someone else's relationship because it didn't fit their ultimatum definitions.

Simply put, a previous Mistress and I were involved in a "no limits" relationship where she never found herself in a situation where I would ever deny what she desired. That's no limits. Sure, she could have demanded I stick an appendage in a wood chipper, and that probably would have ruined the relationship right then and there. But that never happened. It's like nuclear security; we're secure until someone actually launches, but until then we're EXTREMELY secure.

(in reply to talmar)

Post #: 103

RE: No limit slaves - 3/28/2006 8:10:39 PM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
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We are using the words quite differently again and I doubt online I could ever make what I'm feeling and thinking very clear to anyone using diferrent definitions or connotations. With that in mind, I realize below is probably a ramble to many readers.

I personally think that looking for one who has no-limits is a set-up for failure and disappointment. Why does it matter what your limits or lack there of are? Why does that determine the quality of the person or the relationship?

Instead of looking for someone with "no-limits" why not look for someone with compatible limits, compatible interests, and the appropriate attitude to go with yours (generic)? Instead of striving toward "no-liimits" why not work toward becoming the best owner or slave you can become?

When I see "no-limits" in a profile or an ad or hear it in a conversation, it always seems connected to this ideal of what a slave should be. Is the implication then that anyone who has limits then is less of a slave or less serious?

Limits are not bad, they aren't signs of being less than; they are boundaries or "limitations" that are part of who we are as human beings.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

This doesn't make sense EITHER. We're not talking about LIMITATIONS. I have LIMITATIONS. I can't fly. I do not know what preceded the Big Bang. I cannot cause mountains to disintegrate with a single zap of my x-ray finger.

We're not talking about whether anyone can fart lightning bolts. We're talking about whether a slave will do everything his or her master commands. That's all we're talking about it. Maybe you've never met anyone like that, but they exist.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

I still think limits are reality, whether one wants to admit one has them or not. Legal, social, physical, mental, activity, I have never met someone who had no limits. Even Superman had limits.

A deity might be the only one who could truly say it didn't have limits but that's sort of part of the definition of being a deity or god now isn't it?

< Message edited by thetammyjo -- 3/28/2006 8:12:13 PM >

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 104

RE: No limit slaves - 3/28/2006 8:14:23 PM

dorsaisgirl1

Posts: 156
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline

i am in a relationship . we where talking to a girl hear with the hopes of finding anouther to join our family we asked about limits and she said she had none. she was not in a relationship already . i felt that her saying that she had no limits at that point was something that in some cases could put her at risk. we asked about her intrests and she said she had no personal intrest that her only intrest was to serve . we tryed to find something anything about her that defined her gave her some personality in the end we could not find anything. she had no veiws no hobbies no wants no needs it was scary

(in reply to littlesarbonn)

Post #: 105

RE: No limit slaves - 3/28/2006 8:15:27 PM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlesarbonn

Simply put, a previous Mistress and I were involved in a "no limits" relationship where she never found herself in a situation where I would ever deny what she desired. That's no limits. Sure, she could have demanded I stick an appendage in a wood chipper, and that probably would have ruined the relationship right then and there. But that never happened. It's like nuclear security; we're secure until someone actually launches, but until then we're EXTREMELY secure.

I'm not quite understanding the need to define your relationship as "no-limit"?

What is the benefit (on a variety of levels) to defining it as such?

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to littlesarbonn)

Post #: 106

RE: No limit slaves - 3/28/2006 8:25:25 PM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

I agree, the relationship littlesarbonn just described was not truly no-limits. It was she-never-went-beyond-my-limits, which, as I've been urging, is not at all the same thing.

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 107

RE: No limit slaves - 3/28/2006 8:29:51 PM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

Again, only my models and my definitions. I'm finding it strange that some of you seem to think it applies to you and my making some judgement about how you serve or the models you follow. I'm very sorry if my words have suggested this; wasn't my intent.

By the same token it seems you are taking our statement of "no limits" and applying them to your beliefs and judging them.

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 108

RE: No limit slaves - 3/28/2006 8:32:00 PM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

And that is his call (and yours) to make for your relationship. That is not necessarily how everyone would react in the same situation.

Very true. i never claimed to speak for everyone.

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 109

RE: No limit slaves - 3/28/2006 8:41:53 PM

Vendaval

Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline

If I read a profile or receive a message from a slave who claims to be "no limits"
then they are most likely inexperienced and trying to attract attention.

Between a Dom/Domme and slave(s) there can be a relationship dynamic that is
"no limits" but that would develop over time accompanied by communication and
building of trust.

YMMV,

-Vendaval-

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE

http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to talmar)

Post #: 110

RE: No limit slaves - 3/28/2006 8:42:08 PM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

How does Fox know the big picture?

How do you know?

I don't know, that's the point. Let me give you an example now. Himself is diabetic, calls me from the road and says he wants a chocolate cake ready for after dinner. I decide, since I know what's in his best interest, not to bake one. It's not good for him. He may 'want' it, but he doesn't need it. He comes home and we have dinner. The doorbell rings and the guests he invited over for dessert show up for my chocolate cake which he's raved about. Too bad I didn't make it. I didn't 'know' the big picture. Perhaps you feel the need to explain yourself to your slaves so they can decide whether or not they will supercede an order for your own good. Himself knows he simply needs to tell me to do something to ensure it will be done. Most things are anticipated.. he doesn't need to micromanage the day to day.. in fact, orders are rare around these parts because I just 'do'.. so when he does give me a command to do something, it's not frivilous, it's always for a reason, even if I don't know what that reason is. Maybe you call that submissive, and that's your perogative, but Himself would call anyone who was disobedient.. 'dismissed' and that's his perogative.

Celeste

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 111

RE: No limit slaves - 3/28/2006 8:46:54 PM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

Why does it matter what your limits or lack there of are? Why does that determine the quality of the person or the relationship?

Instead of looking for someone with "no-limits" why not look for someone with compatible limits, compatible interests, and the appropriate attitude to go with yours (generic)? Instead of striving toward "no-liimits" why not work toward becoming the best owner or slave you can become?

When I see "no-limits" in a profile or an ad or hear it in a conversation, it always seems connected to this ideal of what a slave should be. Is the implication then that anyone who has limits then is less of a slave or less serious?

Limits are not bad, they aren't signs of being less than; they are boundaries or "limitations" that are part of who we are as human beings.

Okay i swear i'm not trying to pick your posts apart! But they compelled me to reply. i didn't see anyone in this thread speak negatively about having limits, or about anyone who has limits. If your interpretation is that those who have no limits somehow look down upon those who do have limits...i don't think that came from anyone here.

You asked someone in a different post why they felt the need to define herself as no-limit. i can only fathom the only reason any of us have chosen to "defend" (for lack of a better word) no limits is because of the very first post in reply to the OP was from you, in which you said,

"I consider such a idea to be based in fantasy not reality."

What is that statement, if not saying those who have no limits are "less than", which is what you have considered we are calling slaves with limits?

It's confusing. It's one thing to disagree yet accept another's point of view. It's another to disagree and put them down.

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 112

RE: No limit slaves - 3/28/2006 8:48:14 PM

catize

Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline

Human fraility is part of this equation. No one is perfect, no one makes the correct decision 100% of the time. To have no limits would mean we must believe the one we obey is infallible.

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to talmar)

Post #: 113

RE: No limit slaves - 3/28/2006 8:54:32 PM

Lordandmaster

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Joined: 6/22/2004
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That doesn't follow either. You can obey someone you know is flawed. In fact, I don't really see the alternative. You can't be honest with yourself about the other person unless you accept that he or she is imperfect.

It's reached the point where I really have to wonder why people are having so much trouble with this concept. I get the feeling they are just fundamentally and irrationally disturbed by the idea that one human being could serve another with such devotion.

< Message edited by Lordandmaster -- 3/28/2006 8:56:30 PM >

(in reply to catize)

Post #: 114

RE: No limit slaves - 3/28/2006 8:57:07 PM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
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People either embrace and learn....or reject and argue....that which they do not understand.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 115

RE: No limit slaves - 3/29/2006 1:57:21 AM

NeedToUseYou

Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

People either embrace and learn....or reject and argue....that which they do not understand.

hmmm, why does it mean they don't understand, I personally understand alot of things I reject. I reject them because I understand them. Like I understand Communism, and reject and argue against it. Unrelated, but it illustrates one can understand and still reject it.

As far as Literal boundless no-limits slaves go, I'm sure they exist, I hope they all have good masters. Whether I personally think it is good to be that way is another thing. But like every conversation up here, it seems it all gets tied up on definitions. Reading how different people use the same word instead of applying one definition as universal goes a long way, especially in the case of a made up non-standardized BDSM term.

no-limits for newer people usually means, no-limits from what I know BDSM to involve that's what I thought it meant initially. Literal no-limits but the context is more based on the little checkmarks on BDSM surveys. So the universe of limits is limited compared to the more educated BDSM community.

no-limits for others it means my master won't test them anyway, and if he/she did I wouldn't be there anymore. In other words I chose my master based upon the fact I know he is a certain type of person and thus wouldn't do such things. So, in the sphere of our relationship my master will never want anything of me that would be a personal limit. Again, Implicit No Limits, because it will never be tested. Since No Limit has been reached it implies the lack of limits though they may still be there it's irrelevant in this situation.

<----This is were in my opinion most really are as I doubt any here have tested such theories to the highest degree, though most believe they are in the next category because they believe, and may really do anything but it remains nearly universally provable--->

no-limits for others means, I'd do anything, kill, rape, murder, steal, whatever for my Master. Literal Universal No Limits, from the widest available field of possible Limits. However, the only possible way to test this is to expose the slave to every possible command, a literal impossiblity. Thus not provable.

Absolute Limitless possiblities cannot be proven or disproven, thus the set of possibilities one has dealt with define one as being No-Limits or Limited. I cannot prove a limit I will never be asked to cross.

So, to me everyone is really just arguing about the definition they are currently using and relating to other peoples comments without thinking of the way they are using the term. One persons No-Limit slave will be anothers Very Limited Slave.

BDSM terminology sucks that's my overall opinion because it is morphed into internalized self meaning by most people using it(there is no formalized meaning and most don't want there to be either). And since the meaning is very personal it invariably will illicit a response when challenged.

Blame it on BDSM.

just a opinion. Thanks

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 116

RE: No limit slaves - 3/29/2006 2:35:17 AM

smilezz

Posts: 2156
Joined: 6/18/2004
Status: offline

quote:

It's reached the point where I really have to wonder why people are having so much trouble with this concept

I don't really think i have a problem with the concept of this.......the reality of it may be a different thought.

quote:

I get the feeling they are just fundamentally and irrationally disturbed by the idea that one human being could serve another with such devotion.

I thought about this a little bit more too. I suppose that since i have not ever heard or know of anyone that serves this way, sure, i suppose it's possible. There are billions of people in the world, i don't know them all.
In pondering the disturbed part.....i'm not disturbed by the idea, i guess if someone served this way, good for them...they have defined 'their' relationship. As far as the devotion part goes? eehhhh, i don't see it as that. I think i will stop right here for now and wish y'all a good day.

Peace out!

~smilezz~

_____________________________

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(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 117

RE: No limit slaves - 3/29/2006 4:19:34 AM

catize

Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline

Please read more carefully. My argument is not about obedience. Of course we are obedient, but the reality that all Dom/mes/Masters/Mistresses are humanly flawed precludes the 'no limits' philosophy.

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 118

RE: No limit slaves - 3/29/2006 4:44:50 AM

littlesarbonn

Posts: 1710
Joined: 12/3/2005
From: Stockton, California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

I agree, the relationship littlesarbonn just described was not truly no-limits. It was she-never-went-beyond-my-limits, which, as I've been urging, is not at all the same thing.

Well, that's exactly my point there. Someone OUTSIDE of the relationship feels the need to define someone else's relationship to fulfill their own ego in some way. THAT was my point, not that I was actually in a no-limit relationship. It really was no surprise that people would then turn around and do exactly that.

On reflection, I've discovered this has only really EVER became a problem with the advent of the Internet. You never had these kinds of condemnations (oh they'll say it's not that, but it is) before the usage of the Internet where everyone is an expert but you.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 119

RE: No limit slaves - 3/29/2006 5:47:32 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster
I get the feeling they are just fundamentally and irrationally disturbed by the idea that one human being could serve another with such devotion.

I guess for me I simply believe that in order to live a healthy growing life, one needs to have limits on what they will or won't do.

Given certain, unlikely, circumstances, I will kill, I will steal, I will do all manner of things that are considered evil and wrong.

But, given my world as it is and continues to remain so, many of those evil and wrong things are NOT things that I will do, and I consider it good to limit those actions. I won't choose to be with someone who says it is likely they will want me to do them given the world as it is, and I think that's a healthy thing.

Personally I think we see this sort of devotion everyday with parents and their children, far more than what we see in Ms relationships.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 120

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