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Worth my while to be "a freak" - 2/13/2010 4:46:20 PM

CallaFirestormBW

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So the exchange leading to this quote got me to thinking, but I didn't want to contribute to the derailing of a thread.

I think it's hard to get inside someone's head to figure out why they would make the choices they're making -- especially when those choices go so far counter to what mainstream society accepts that the choices can get downright uncomfortable, if not dangerous.

With that in mind, I'd like to expand on the the following quote from NorthernGent:

quote:

I dunno....perhaps it takes a gay man to explain why the rewards outweigh the negatives.....when all's said and done there has to be something in it for you to make it worthwhile

To me, it isn't so hard to understand. People have been sacrificing their lives for love since the dawn of time. It's the same for me in every area where I am outside the mainstream (for me, this includes religion, career, relationships, sexuality... in fact, I think there are so few areas where I -am- mainstream that it's almost work to find one... and yet, for 40 years, I have managed to integrate within the mainstream, keep my jobs, cherish my loves, practice and teach my beliefs, espouse my philosophies. Have I sacrificed... absolutely! There have been many times when I've had to choose between doing what meshed with my core, and working in a particular situation or associating with a certain group of people, and sometimes, I've had to let go of people I'd come to cherish, because my life-choices were causing strain on them that they weren't ready to handle. Still, I can honestly say that I don't find my choices to have been an insurmountable burden. Yes there were challenges, but perhaps all it takes for me to find rewards that outweigh the negatives is to be able to live as my authentic self... it is a no-brainer. Forcing myself to live a 'mainstream' life for love or money would be so negative on a daily basis for me that the challenges of living an outre life seem painless by comparison.

How about you? If you are outside the mainstream, what makes the rewards exceed the pain?

_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

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RE: Worth my while to be "a freak" - 2/13/2010 5:05:08 PM

DesFIP

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I'm a Reconstructionist Jew. There's a line somewhere in the Torah that roughly translates to "do nothing unnatural".

Now fundamentalists, Jews and Christians both, interpret this as homosexuality is unnatural. But the original Hebrew says nothing of the kind. As a Reconstructionist, we interpret this to mean you must be true to yourself. Which is why the boy Bar Mitzvah'd the week before my son is the child of two lesbians. They are true to themselves so they act on their innate desires and wiring.

And that's why people act on who they are, despite the negative reactions they may get from society. Because otherwise they are living a lie, they are not their authentic selves, and the people they claim to love without truly ever being in love with learn from the deceptive relationship that they are unlovable, that the children they raise while living a lie learn that no one will ever want who you really are.

Living with negative responses from society is hard. Living a lie 24 hours a day is unbearable. And it's unfair to those innocents who pay the price of your lies.

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RE: Worth my while to be "a freak" - 2/13/2010 5:09:51 PM

zephyroftheNorth

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LOVE that post Celeste! Absolutely spot on! *applauds loudly*

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RE: Worth my while to be "a freak" - 2/13/2010 5:15:52 PM

DesFIP

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Thanks Zeph.

Calla, what I didn't say and should have is that what it boils down to is your authentic self is not a freak, your fake persona is. And that's why you take all the bad stuff, to be the real you.

And just because someone doesn't fall smack dab in the middle of the bell curve doesn't make them weird, it just makes them rare. Average isn't the same as normal.

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RE: Worth my while to be "a freak" - 2/13/2010 5:28:52 PM

CallaFirestormBW

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Thanks Des... I think that the reason that I posted this was because the train of conversation in another thread asked the question about why anyone would ever choose a life with the harassment and trials of being gay, and to me, it just seemed like a natural extension of being who we are -- and completely natural to take any risk to be one's authentic self...

I claim my 'freakhood'. I know I sit on the fringes of society, and I like it there. For me, it has always been a conscious choice (though sometimes I've jumped in to a situation without complete information and a good escape plan, and gotten my tush scorched, this has usually happened when I tried to 'mainstream', rather than when I chose to slip to the fringes.) I enjoy being a freak, and you know, though, in general, I'm not an "in your face" kind of person, sometimes I even enjoy flaunting my freak factor in front of the mainstreamers, just to enjoy the reaction.

_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to DesFIP)

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RE: Worth my while to be "a freak" - 2/13/2010 5:30:46 PM

VaguelyCurious

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

And just because someone doesn't fall smack dab in the middle of the bell curve doesn't make them weird, it just makes them rare. Average isn't the same as normal.

I'm not sure if I agree with that-the bell curve is called the 'normal curve' for a reason...

What I think reckon is more important is what value you decide to place on that normality. I've never really had the chance to see what it's like at the middle of the curve-for example, I come from a pretty minor ethnic minority background. You either let it bother you, or you decide that different is sexy, and that xenophobia is just curiosity with an ugly coat on, and get on with your life.

As regards non-mainstream choices, I think that being the odd one out for things I can't control has meant that I'm not too bothered about being odd in ways I can control. When people give you stick, you shrug your shoulders and move on, if you enjoy your life and you're fulfilled. It's like a protective coating of 'well, yeah. but I'm happy' that lets negative things flow off you.

Or, at least, that's what it's like for me.

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RE: Worth my while to be "a freak" - 2/13/2010 5:41:32 PM

juliaoceania

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quote:

How about you? If you are outside the mainstream, what makes the rewards exceed the pain?

I am not that open about being outside the mainstream, and those of my acquaintance that do know about it do not make a hassle about it... so I get all rewards, no pain (unless it is him inflicting it on me

)

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RE: Worth my while to be "a freak" - 2/13/2010 5:50:48 PM

DesFIP

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We could apply this to the struggle for civil rights, since February is Black History month and all.
What made it worth the while for Rosa Parks to refuse to go to the back of the bus, to court known negative response? Jail and all is definitely negative.

And better than going to jail would be going to the back of the bus, using the Colored bathroom and water fountain and all? Or wouldn't it?

Because not being allowed to be who you are is just wrong.

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RE: Worth my while to be "a freak" - 2/13/2010 5:51:01 PM

LadyAngelika

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quote:

What I think reckon is more important is what value you decide to place on that normality.

Normal is a construct. I have my own personal philosophy on this. When I was a teen, I was quite the rebel, little punk rock girl, torn fishnets, the Mohawk, you name it! Someone said white, I said black. Someone said turn right, I turned left. That didn't always work so well for me and I realised that swimming against the current was not only exhausting, but sometimes it compromised my own desire.

With maturity, like many, I learned to be my authentic selves regardless of what is considered normal. I also realised that if I surround myself with quality people, this won't be an issue.

I chose to keep the intimate parts of my life intimate. However the fact that I have a dominant personality is not something I could hide even if I wanted to. It is actually an asset for me in my life so why would I?

- LA

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Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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RE: Worth my while to be "a freak" - 2/13/2010 5:55:54 PM

VaguelyCurious

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

Normal is a construct.

Have to disagree with you, LA; normal is just the middle of whatever distribution curve you are talking about at the time. It's not made up, somehow-it's a measurable, classifiable thing (which just happens, in my opinion, to not be that important).

I'm going to bed now, so if you reply I may well not see it until morning...

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RE: Worth my while to be "a freak" - 2/13/2010 6:04:23 PM

LadyAngelika

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quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

Normal is a construct.

Have to disagree with you, LA; normal is just the middle of whatever distribution curve you are talking about at the time. It's not made up, somehow-it's a measurable, classifiable thing (which just happens, in my opinion, to not be that important).

I'm going to bed now, so if you reply I may well not see it until morning...

Gramsci's hegemony. That is where I get my opinion from.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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RE: Worth my while to be "a freak" - 2/13/2010 6:06:04 PM

Level

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

How about you? If you are outside the mainstream, what makes the rewards exceed the pain?

There isn't much more important than finding what you truly are, and incorporating it into your life.

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Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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RE: Worth my while to be "a freak" - 2/13/2010 7:41:20 PM

HisSweetElysium

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

How about you? If you are outside the mainstream, what makes the rewards exceed the pain?

the way I look puts me outside the mainstream, and my politics do too, but those aren't quite so obvious, until I open my mouth anyway. Honestly, it's being true to myself. I look the way I do for me, not for attention. People find it hard to understand but I genuinely made my choices DESPITE what other people think, not because of it. If I had to do it all over again, I believe I would, but it has been harder than I anticipated, that much is true.

If we're talking kink, that's a whole other story. Jury is still out on that one, if it's worth it or not. Sometimes I curse the man who first spanked me, I wonder if without that desire my life would have been easier. It feels like something akin to a demon was first awakened when that happened. I've actually talked about it with him since, and he says he feels the same, and felt it in me too and that's why he did what he did. Weird.

Sorry, rambling, it's been a long day...

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RE: Worth my while to be "a freak" - 2/14/2010 5:07:59 AM

DesFIP

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quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

Normal is a construct.

Have to disagree with you, LA; normal is just the middle of whatever distribution curve you are talking about at the time. It's not made up, somehow-it's a measurable, classifiable thing (which just happens, in my opinion, to not be that important).

I'm going to bed now, so if you reply I may well not see it until morning...

And it's not always a bad thing to be the outlier instead of the normal/middle of the curve. Would you rather be a utility player, going back and forth between the majors and the minors or would you rather be the outlier who hits the ball out of the park?

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RE: Worth my while to be "a freak" - 2/14/2010 5:32:59 AM

pyroaquatic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

How about you? If you are outside the mainstream, what makes the rewards exceed the pain?

Dear Calla,

please redirect the main stream to my front yard so I may figure out what the hell it actually is. So this is a risk versus reward scenario... hmmm. I tend to be an outcast of the outcasts and in a precariously painful situation socially.

Anything I do now is a reward for I have nothing to lose.

~Pyroaquatic

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You are what your deep, driving desire is.
As your desire is, so is your will.
As your will is, so is your deed.
As your deed is, so is your destiny.
-Brihadaranyaka Upanishad IV.4.5

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RE: Worth my while to be "a freak" - 2/14/2010 5:50:19 AM

VaguelyCurious

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

Normal is a construct.

Have to disagree with you, LA; normal is just the middle of whatever distribution curve you are talking about at the time. It's not made up, somehow-it's a measurable, classifiable thing (which just happens, in my opinion, to not be that important).

I'm going to bed now, so if you reply I may well not see it until morning...

Gramsci's hegemony. That is where I get my opinion from.

- LA

Gramsci's hegemony talks about perceived normality, right? The working class' idea of normality is distorted by that of the bourgeoisie (sorry if I've spelt that wrong), if memory and a quick flick through the wikipedia page serves me right.

I'm not talking about perceived normality, I'm talking about statistical normality. If you had the data you could calculate a frequency distribution for any attribute a person possesses; the only parameter which affects whether the person is 'normal', with respect to this attribute, is where on the curve you decide to place the boundary of normality.

Once you've chosen a (pretty arbitrary) percentage of the population to classify as normal, the normality of an item is no longer in dispute-either they fit within the bounds or they don't.

I suppose you could say that statistical normality is 'constructed' in that where you decide to place the boundary affects the outcome for those not obviously right in the centre or right at the edges, but given that I am generally right at the edges the concept of normality doesn't feel like a social construct to me.

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RE: Worth my while to be "a freak" - 2/14/2010 6:13:05 AM

LadyAngelika

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Well when Gramsci was around, yeah they used bourgeois & working class. Today I like to call the bourgeois the influencers. A perfect example is fashion an the woman's body image. What is portrayed by media as normal (perceived normalcy) and what is really normal (statistical normalcy) like what you are talking about.

Ok, I see your point about statistical normalcy. Now how do we gather the data? Is it self-reported? Is the observer biased? See what I'm saying?

While I have a lot of faith in quantitative research as it can uncover underlying information that simple observation can't, the reverse is also true. Regardless of the bell curve produced by a statistical analysis of normalcy, the predominant images in our society dictating normalcy are still being portrayed by the media.

Now this isn't meant to take away your argument but rather add another level of complexity to what we define normal.

In my world, it is normal to be sexually curious and to have slept with both genders. It is also normal to go to sex shops and buy toys, to have gone to check out a swinger's club or fetish club at least once and to have been in at least one threesome and at least one orgy. All these things are readily available to the average 18+ urban Montrealer.

And even though I just might be considered sexual deviant from the normality curve some may have produced, I haven't done all in the list that I just produced. All this means is that in my society, in my microsociety rather, I'm relatively normal.

- LA

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RE: Worth my while to be "a freak" - 2/14/2010 7:17:42 AM

LadyEllen

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I felt more like a freak when I appeared ordinary to others and now, having become a freak to others I feel very much more ordinary in myself.

E

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RE: Worth my while to be "a freak" - 2/14/2010 9:36:37 AM

sexyred1

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I don't feel like a freak regarding my sexuality, never did, never will.

I prefer to value my uniqueness, all the facets that make me who I am. I relate best to those who also value their uniqueness and are authentic about living it.

I do not respect those who feel their uniqueness places them above others.

And I feel sad for those who feel their uniqueness makes them freaks in the negative sense.

< Message edited by sexyred1 -- 2/14/2010 9:37:27 AM >

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RE: Worth my while to be "a freak" - 2/14/2010 9:41:10 AM

Whiplashsmile4

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At times it's not been worth my wild to be a "freak" other times it has been. Depends upon the given circumstances and how it's applied.

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Жизнь ума ебет.

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