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Ladies and Gentlemen.....? - 2/14/2010 10:45:14 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Yesterday a brief post interaction I had with Lady Angelika planted a seed. We were talking about a person either being a Lady or Gentleman. Then I started thinking off and on the rest of the day and evening. Exactly what determines whether a person is such? I realized that I don't really know! The more I thought about it, tried to create specifics in my mind, the more elusive those specifics became.

Sure, I have a 'feel' based upon my life and what I have been exposed to but.........based upon previous discussions with people from other backgrounds, my feel of what determines such, is vastly different than other people's.

I know, based upon Lady Angelika's posts she feels she is a Lady. I am very certain that, within her defined parameters she most certainly is a Lady. I am equally certain that another poster on that same thread, would have different parameters that she or I thought I had. I am also certain that a hundred other people, when asked, would have varying degrees of different parameters.

I think that in our current society, not to mention the previously mentioned backgrounds, it is such a fluid thing. One hundred years ago, two hundred years ago, our classes, our cultures, seemed to have much more rigidly defined ideas. For some it was, and in some arenas it still is, a title. Something that has no real measure for me, a woman grown and raised in a culture that didn't really recognise those types of titles.

Yet I do remember endless admonishments from elder female relatives....."LeeAnn hold your knees together when you are sitting! A lady would NEVER sit with her knees apart!" "LeeAnn, don't run in the house. A lady never runs indoors!" "A lady never wears jeans." "A lady is never without a clean handkerchief." "A lady never raises her voice." And on and on. Most of which I HATED. To me, even then, they were very unfair rules.

All my brothers got were admonishments about gentlemen not having elbows on the table, (applicable to ladies too btw...) just as chewing with your mouth open or talking with food in your mouth was. Definitely a lot less rigid and lord knows they got to wear much more comfortable clothes to school in the early years.

I even remember teachers chastising girls for 'unladylike' behaviour. Many of the playground toys were reserved for boys and the trashy girls. Primarily because little ladies were wearing dresses to school. You did NOT want to be seen as a trashy girl.

So, the point of this thread is to ask anyone that cares to answer, what does 'Lady' and 'Gentleman' mean to you? What determines your parameters? Is it something important to you? Do you aspire to be one or no? Is it important for your S.O. to be?

I cannot really answer because, at this point, I am not sure what my definition really is. I have thought myself into a quandry. And......based upon my background, if that indeed determines my definition, I am not sure I want to be a Lady. It seems very sexist and too restrictive.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!
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RE: Ladies and Gentlemen.....? - 2/14/2010 10:49:55 AM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
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Main Entry: in·teg·ri·ty Pronunciation: \in-ˈte-grə-tē\Function: noun Etymology: Middle English integrite, from Middle French & Latin; Middle French integrité, from Latin integritat-, integritas, from integr-, integer entireDate: 14th century1 : firm adherence to a code of especially moral or artistic values : incorruptibility2 : an unimpaired condition : soundness3 : the quality or state of being complete or undivided : completeness
synonyms see honesty That kinda wraps it up for Me. But I am willing to be challenged on this...:)  Jeff

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RE: Ladies and Gentlemen.....? - 2/14/2010 11:09:51 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Being a gentleman is something akin to being a dad; whilst almost any man can be a father not every father will ever be a dad even so. Its nothing to do with class, background, wealth or lack thereof - rather its a matter of character, and more specifically learned character (where education might help) whereby whilst the ordinary man is controlled principly by his animal nature, the gentleman is driven to strive towards his godly nature.

And being a lady, rather than a woman, is alike; almost any woman can be a mother but not every mother will ever be a mom. Again origins and situation in life are irrelevant - the lady is the woman who strives to live to a godly standard rather than be controlled by her animal nature. Whilst a noble title, fine clothes and jewellery may be seen as attributes of a lady, the truth is that these are mere paraphernalia - a lady is a lady by her demeanour and behaviour, even as a commoner attired in rags.

E
(a lady and a dad, so I must know what I'm talking about LOL!)



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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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RE: Ladies and Gentlemen.....? - 2/14/2010 11:33:32 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		..blend into the general area where you are at- with some attempt to be abit of an example.   With out over doing it- showing off.

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RE: Ladies and Gentlemen.....? - 2/14/2010 11:35:19 AM   
rockspider


Posts: 633
Joined: 9/26/2009
Status: offline 		My experience tells me that women who have the need to specify they are or should be treated as a lady seldom posses the qualities necessary for being considered a lady. Just like the men on this site who calls them self for master don't have a clue what the word really means.

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RE: Ladies and Gentlemen.....? - 2/14/2010 1:05:27 PM   
Level


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Joined: 3/3/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

So, the point of this thread is to ask anyone that cares to answer, what does 'Lady' and 'Gentleman' mean to you? What determines your parameters? Is it something important to you? Do you aspire to be one or no? Is it important for your S.O. to be?


It really is not important to me. A degree of kindness and consideration for others is, though, and I'm sure those qualities "bleed over" into lady/gentleman land at times.

I ALWAYS hold open a door for others, try to say thank you, that kind of thing, but I'm not a gentleman.


_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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RE: Ladies and Gentlemen.....? - 2/14/2010 1:07:44 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Thank you all...........I am still musing over this. I'd never really given any of it much consideration before.

Thinking I am a lady is something I am conditioned to want. Yet, for the very same reasons I was conditioned to think it was a positive, it isn't, to me. It almost seems like being submissive to a concept. So I was curious to hear/read others thought.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Ladies and Gentlemen.....? - 2/14/2010 1:10:17 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		I believe it IS "submissive to a concept". I prefer to be true to myself, and that means one minute, I pull out a chair for a woman, and an hour later, I may tell a fart joke. Or just fart.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to LaTigresse)
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RE: Ladies and Gentlemen.....? - 2/14/2010 1:14:39 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		I think that is the part of it that grates on me. The feeling of submitting to societal expectations based upon the parameters I felt was attributed to the terms.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Level)
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RE: Ladies and Gentlemen.....? - 2/14/2010 2:36:41 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline 		Some of the words that come to mind are respect for one's self and integrity (which Jeff mentioned).

There are traditional beliefs that a Lady is never outspoken. Perfect example is Lady Diana who managed to be outspoken but retained her diginity, self-respect and class when speaking out about certain issues. Diplomacy was her forté.

I was raised in a very high standards, almost stiffling. That is how it was in those times. Over the years I've even seen my father relax a little thank goodness. Our societal norms now do not for example dictate that it isn't lady like to wear jeans, but back then, yes. I didn't get my first pair of blue jeans until I was 9 and I had to plead my mother for them. Today she wears them too. It isn't the superficial stuff that dictate Lady or Gentleman. Those are just the side effects.

Then there is a whole other segment which is etiquette, which I believe doesn't go out of style. But having your elbows on the table during mealtime meant you were sent to your room without finishing your dinner. So was talking with your mouthful or talking too loud at the dinner table. Those things still remain and if I brought home a man who did either of those three, I would get a disapproving look from my parents.

- LA




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Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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RE: Ladies and Gentlemen.....? - 2/14/2010 2:46:49 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline 		~Fast Reply~

I have very particular ideas about what a lady does and what a lady doesn't do. I grew up with the ideal of the Southern ady in my head and to a certain extent I still cling to it. I don't know if I qualify. I like to think I do but I know that if I do, I'm not the classic example.

Hospitiality and generousity are things I feel a lady should have in abundence. Both tact and a keen insight. A tendancy to make others at ease yet not at the cost of solving issues. Modesty yes but the physical modesty isn't so much important to me. Not being a braggert is more important to me. A pleasent woman to be around who doesn't back-stab those around her.

It's not very specific I suppose but it is something I have given a lot of thought to. I would regard being thought of as a lady as a high honor.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

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RE: Ladies and Gentlemen.....? - 2/14/2010 2:52:09 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

~Fast Reply~

I have very particular ideas about what a lady does and what a lady doesn't do. I grew up with the ideal of the Southern ady in my head and to a certain extent I still cling to it. I don't know if I qualify. I like to think I do but I know that if I do, I'm not the classic example.

Hospitiality and generousity are things I feel a lady should have in abundence. Both tact and a keen insight. A tendancy to make others at ease yet not at the cost of solving issues. Modesty yes but the physical modesty isn't so much important to me. Not being a braggert is more important to me. A pleasent woman to be around who doesn't back-stab those around her.

It's not very specific I suppose but it is something I have given a lot of thought to. I would regard being thought of as a lady as a high honor.


I like your definition AquaticSub, and I would regard being thought of as a lady in this definition as a high honor as well. While I might not meet those criteria all the time, they are all behaviours that I try my best to maintain.

- LA


_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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RE: Ladies and Gentlemen.....? - 2/14/2010 2:54:27 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline 		Thank you. It's certainly something I strive for. Even if sometimes I just want to be very unladylike and strangle people.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
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RE: Ladies and Gentlemen.....? - 2/14/2010 3:27:59 PM   
LadyAngelika


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Joined: 7/4/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

Thank you. It's certainly something I strive for. Even if sometimes I just want to be very unladylike and strangle people.


Well I for one find you very Ladylike ;-)

- LA


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Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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RE: Ladies and Gentlemen.....? - 2/14/2010 3:41:26 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline 		Huzzah! Now it's time for the dancing creatures!



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Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
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RE: Ladies and Gentlemen.....? - 2/14/2010 3:45:01 PM   
intenze


Posts: 2176
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline 		Thank you for the thread, LaT.
It had given me lots of food for thought. I was trying to remember qualities of women that I think are "ladies". Graciousness, as AquaticSub said: generosity, kindness.....
I want, in my head, to put qualities of Ladies and Gentlemen together. I believe there is a commonality in being a good person that transcends gender. I hope so, because so many of the "ladylike" qualities that people of a certain age ( you and me LOL) really don't make anyone a better person. I think being the best, most authentic person you can be is going to naturally lead someone to being a Lady or Gentleman.
I am rambling, still trying to put my thoughts together. Thanks again for posting this.
BTW, Level, chicks like fart jokes too.

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Namaste, bitches!

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RE: Ladies and Gentlemen.....? - 2/14/2010 3:54:56 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline 		I actually have a journal entry on what I believe a gentleman to be: http://www.collarme.com/personals/i/948826/viewjournalentry.htm

- LA


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Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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RE: Ladies and Gentlemen.....? - 2/14/2010 4:12:46 PM   
TexasMaam


Posts: 1467
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline 		Hmmm. I'd like to think I'm a "Lady" but I don't always behave like one.

I can be blunt to a fault.

In an office setting I get what I want and I believe the squeaky wheel gets the grease, so I often find myself labeled as being 'aggressive' rather than 'assertive'....yet if I were a man going after the very same office promotion or wanting to get the inside lead on the exact same hot project coming down the pipes, I'd be lauded for being 'a go getter', 'ambitious' and 'goal oriented'. I find myself constantly chastized for being "'negative' about what I have or where I am in the office heirarchy", rather than praised for being "'ambitious' and goal oriented". I'm not sure very many people in the office would describe me as 'a lady'. A Dragon, maybe.

When I think of the term 'ladylike' I suppose I think of demure, genteel, soft spoken and thoughtfully cool headed. While I can be all of those things, I generally err on the side of 'shooting straight from the hip' rather than being 'politically correct'.

I give genteel behavior a very high priority most of the time. I pride myself on being trustworthy, dependable, capable and fair. At the office, coworkers in distress come to me on a daily basis with their issues and concerns because they know I have the moxy to address what they cannot bring themselves to express to management. I suppose they know 'I ain't skeered'. I don't think that necessarily meets the definition of 'demure', does it? Yet I try to go about things in a circumspect, professional way; I expect the same of everyone I work with.

I expect My sub to be a gentleman, but I don't expect him to be a gentleman 24/7. I want him to be burly enough and tough enough to smack down a bear, whether the bear is a theoretical bear or a real bear. I want him to treat me like a queen, but only insofar as he knows his queen has the sexual appetites of a complete slut.

With regard to mores and integrity, I believe myself to be a person of high moral standards and personal integrity. Yet I'm not perfect. I have my weaknesses. Does that preclude one from being 'a lady'? I don't know.

I expect my sub to be a man of high moral standards and personal integrity, too. But would I want him to let us starve and freeze in a blizzard or would I rather he climb up on a moving train and steal coal in the dead of winter in the middle of a depression when we're freezing to death? Hmmm. I'd opt for the coal and the loaf of stolen bread and be proud of him for bringing it home to the cave.

So, at best, I suppose that I'm an eclectic mix of whorish wantoness and sophisticated charm with a core of true grit and a will of iron.

So, at best, I suppose he's an eclectic mix of primal caveman and knight in shining armor, with a corresponding core of true grit and a will of iron that will bend to my wishes when I need it to.

Are we 'Lady' and 'Gentleman'?

As long as I'm HIS 'Lady', and as long as he's MY 'Gentleman', I guess that's all that really matters in the long run.

Great post.

TM

< Message edited by TexasMaam -- 2/14/2010 4:16:24 PM >

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RE: Ladies and Gentlemen.....? - 2/14/2010 4:46:47 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Again, thank all of you for your contributions. I am still processing.

Some of the things mentioned above are qualities that are important to me. Personal integrity, honour, self respect. Yet others less so. I think that some of my personal qualities would probably make me less a lady in some eyes, and perhaps moreso in others.

I am not sure if the idea of being a 'Lady' is something that fits me or not. I'm not even sure it matters to me. It still feels too stifling based upon past expectations. Too submissive. I've worked too hard to escape those expectations and restrictions to allow, what feels like an antiquated mindset, to tell me what kind of woman I should be. If that makes me somehow 'less' in the eyes of some, I am okay with that. I can only do what feels right for me. Ladylike or not.

As for gentleman. I don't know if I can pin down what I feel that defines either.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to TexasMaam)
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RE: Ladies and Gentlemen.....? - 2/14/2010 4:50:52 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: intenze
BTW, Level, chicks like fart jokes too.


And you all are to be commended for it, intenze Thorny is another one, I think, as are a couple of my co-workers.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to intenze)
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