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Equality In the D/s Lifestyle - 2/14/2010 7:53:53 PM   
Lorenzo19


Posts: 237
Joined: 2/8/2010
Status: offline 		Another thread set up a puzzle in My mind. It goes like this:

1. she explored the scene and realized she didn't like the 24/7 lifestyle
2. she enjoys being submissive during sex
3. but not outside of sex because she wants 'equality' at all other times.

This raises many questions in mind. A few here.

If it is Dom/sub in the bedroom... is it Dom/Dom other times? If not, what?
Our style is 24/7 but I always consider My sub equal to Me at all times and so does she. What is equality? (really, not the flip answer)
Is it common in D/s lifestyle to make the sub feel humiliated and inferior? Or is that the exception?
Is the D/s lifestyle inaccurately portrayed as a Superior/inferior lifestyle?

The 24/7 life works well for Us. Not asking for help here with My relationship. I'm just looking for stimulating ideas.

Thanks.
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RE: Equality In the D/s Lifestyle - 2/14/2010 8:24:29 PM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline 		I usually don't mess around with the theoretical stuff, but I can take a shot at this.  I do it mainly as a mental exercise for me.  My partner has attempted to have me understand that, though we are not equal and one is superior simply by position, no one is inferior and inequality does not mean one being greater than and one being less than.  As he explains it, it would be similar to trying to compare apples and oranges.  They simply aren't the same.  My personality and role in the relationship is completely different than his.  That makes neither of lesser importance and gives neither an edge in being somehow better.  While an orange may be far superior to the apple for elevating low blood sugar and supplying vitamin c, one cannot overlook the benefits of the apple including the strong fiber content and contribution of calcium.  It is the same with the two of us, we will not function the same within the relationship, but we both contribute our own parts to the overall health of that relationship.

This is not like a numeric equation where one side that isn't equal will have to be bigger or smaller than the other.  It is more like saying circle equals rectangle.  They really can't be compared based on their shape.  Only under closer examination do you realize that the two structures, though clearly nothing alike, actually are equal in some far more significant ways such as width or surface areas.  The core of our relationship is where equality reigns.  We love equally, respect equally, trust equally, and endeavour equally.  If we don't, then the whole structure begins to faulter.  It doesn't matter that our shapes in this world are different or that he is the roof and I am the floor.  Doesn't the floor get ruined in a storm without a roof to cover it?  And what happens to that roof should the floor buckle?

I still have trouble.  I still see it as so much more of a balance.  One must be lower for the other to be higher.  One leads and one follows and clearly since survival depends on a good leader, that leader must be a better specimen than the follower.  He is slowly trying to show me that a leader who does not have a capable follower dies.  He is trying to get me to understand that it isn't about the rise and fall of position, but about the kinetics that keep the exchange going.  I find the more I understand his way of thinking, the better I can feel in my own submissive position.  I know that I am valued, respected, and needed, and all of that for who I really am. 

lovingpet

_____________________________

If you put your head into more, you'd have to put your back into less. ~Me

10 Fluffy pts.


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RE: Equality In the D/s Lifestyle - 2/14/2010 8:24:34 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline 		In all honestly, there are so many permutations that you need to find the balance that works for you. Sometimes, this might mean compromise. If it's too much compromise, then she might not be right for you.

Who do we give credit for the "There is a lid for every jar" statement again?

Edited to add: no way on earth would I ever be with a man I considered inferior to me.

- LA

< Message edited by LadyAngelika -- 2/14/2010 8:56:54 PM >

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RE: Equality In the D/s Lifestyle - 2/14/2010 8:31:11 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		If she's submissive only in the bedroom then she's a bedroom sub. Dom/domme pairings usually mean there's a sub who is not part of the original pair. However if she just enjoys bottoming in the bedroom there may well be no submission.

We're equal in value. If I weren't here, he wouldn't be dominant to anyone. If he wasn't here, I'd have to make all the decisions and I'd hate that. We value each other very much, we love each other very much.

Think of it as a pilot and a navigator. You need both for the flight to arrive successfully, but the pilot is above the navigator in rank. Equal in value, but not in authority.

Some people go for humiliation play, if you don't like it then you don't have to do it.

Some people go for superior play, usually male subs stating that all females are superior to all males but occasionally females stating that men are all supposed to be superior to all women. Most of us don't believe any of that because we've known both men and women who weren't superior to a wilting head of lettuce.

But if it makes you tingly to believe such things, go for it. Just don't push it on anyone else. It's equal in rudeness to telling someone who isn't a member of your church that they'll go to hell because they belong to the wrong group.

And don't get your ideas from porn, because that's never real. Real varies from relationship to relationship. Ours looks like any suburban household, kids, dogs, and him running the grill. Other relationships operate very differently but we're all real.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


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RE: Equality In the D/s Lifestyle - 2/14/2010 8:32:56 PM   
texangael


Posts: 167
Joined: 12/14/2009
Status: offline
quote:

Our style is 24/7 but I always consider My sub equal to Me at all times and so does she. What is equality? (really, not the flip answer)

My slave is  my equal in that her needs are equal in importance, her desires are of equal relevance in the health of my house.  When her children are in my house their needs and feelings are of equal importance.

That is the equality that should be in any relationship.  The power dynamic may be unequal (and in mine it certainly is....I command she obeys), but the caring, the significance of each within the relationship, the importance of each to the other should absolutely be equal in stature.


_____________________________

"Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no Try."
Corny movie cliche that just happens to be true.

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RE: Equality In the D/s Lifestyle - 2/14/2010 8:45:26 PM   
dreamerdreaming


Posts: 2839
Status: offline 		My slave and I have equal rights. I don't treat him as inferior because he's not- and I wouldn't want one who was, anyway. He just cedes authority to me, that's all. A D/s dynamic doesn't mean that one person is better than the other, or deserves more authority. It just means we think its yummy for me to run things.

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RE: Equality In the D/s Lifestyle - 2/14/2010 9:20:13 PM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Status: offline 		-FR-

To me, the idea of equality isn't just about "inferiority" or "humiliation" - it's about equal power, as opposed to a power exchange relationship.

To give an example, let's say the submissive works outside the home, has her own money, and decides she wants to buy a pair of Louboutins. The household budget can definitely swing a pair of $800 shoes, but the dominant thinks that it's a frivolous waste of money.

In a bedroom D/s relationship the submissive submits only in the bedroom, and can say "I appreciate your opinion, but I worked hard for this money and want to treat myself."

In a lifestyle D/s relationship, the dominant can say "no, no shoes," and if the submissive is unable to convince him to change his mind she says "yes, sir."

Neither of those relationships show the submissive as an inferior person, but in the bedroom D/s relationship she maintains her autonomy in other areas of her life (so much as anyone in a LTR/marriage can truly be 'autonomous') whereas the lifestyle submissive submits to the will of the dominant in other areas, like when to spend money, what to have for dinner, what movie to see, etc.

Many people get very turned on by sexual submission but don't want to allow someone else to make their lifestyle decisions for them. Many other people enjoy submitting in both sexual and nonsexual situations and for them, submission is a pillar of their relationship in all areas. Neither is better than the other, and wanting a lifestyle relationship doesn't make the submissive 'inferior' than the dominant, it just means that the dominant will have final say over decisions that the submissive makes.

I hope that clears things up a bit :)

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RE: Equality In the D/s Lifestyle - 2/14/2010 9:20:57 PM   
kushiels


Posts: 55
Joined: 11/1/2009
Status: offline 		In my dynamic we are definitely both equal--She wouldn't want a sub (or wife, for that matter) who wasn't her equal, her match.  What she values is that I CHOOSE to give her that submission.  What I value is not that she takes care of me cause I can't take care of myself, but that she CHOOSES to make decisions about our household and life.  Decisions I am fully capable of making, and decisions I have input in--she values my input, and considers it worthwhile, but in the end, most things are her decision, because we both like it that way.

I choose to submit to her outside of the bedroom.  That's a choice that we both made, but that was harder for us than "playing" with submission in the bedroom (I don't mean to indicate that anyone who submits only in the bedroom is only playing, only that WE were only playing at that point)--we were both brought up with enough feminism that it's hard for us at times to remember it's perfectly okay for me to submit to her outside of the bedroom, if we both enjoy it.

Aquaticsub's sig says it well, but I can't remember it off the top of my head right now.


_____________________________

"Whose my domly dom? Huh? Whose my domly dom?"
~AquaticSub

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RE: Equality In the D/s Lifestyle - 2/14/2010 9:28:43 PM   
UniqueRaven


Posts: 1237
Joined: 9/30/2009
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline 		My Owner and i have an Owner/property dynamic.

We're equals. We are of equal value to each other, and see in each other the compliment to our individual selves.

He holds all the power, the ultimate authority, and makes the final decisions. And my purpose is his pleasure.

i hope this helps.

_____________________________

"My life has no purpose, no direction, no aim, no meaning, and yet I'm happy. I can't figure it out. What am I doing right?" ~Snoopy (Charles Schultz)

My blog is at http://takinghishand.wordpress.com

(in reply to Lorenzo19)
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RE: Equality In the D/s Lifestyle - 2/14/2010 9:59:10 PM   
Lorenzo19


Posts: 237
Joined: 2/8/2010
Status: offline 		I have been reading. Thanks for all the great input. You're all great writers.

You all are describing your very equal relationship in and out of the bedroom. That seems to be the norm (at least with people who write in forums).

One thing Elisabella said may have solved part of the puzzle. She mentioned "Autonomy". Perhaps the girl in the puzzle used the wrong word. She really wanted Autonomy outside of sexual relations. Starting to make sense to Me. That would make it Dom/Domme outside of sex? Or something like that.

(in reply to UniqueRaven)
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RE: Equality In the D/s Lifestyle - 2/14/2010 10:11:24 PM   
peppermint


Posts: 5169
Joined: 10/18/2005
From: Montana
Status: offline
quote:

If it is Dom/sub in the bedroom... is it Dom/Dom other times? If not, what?


Well, sounds like they like Dom/sub as a sexual turn on.  Nothing wrong with that.  They can leave it to the bedroom if they so desire.  Doesn't mean they have to be Dom/Dom, Dom/sub, sub/sub or any other combination out of the bedroom.   Their Dom/sub relationship ends when they pass the bedroom threshold. 

quote:

What is equality?


In the BDSM world I would think equality is a subjective word.  It can have various meanings depending on the various ways people use that word.  No two people are completely equal.  One will be taller, shorter, fatter, thinner, smarter, or more athletic than another. 

quote:

Is it common in D/s lifestyle to make the sub feel humiliated and inferior? Or is that the exception?


In the circles where I hang out it doesn't appear to be very common, however in other places it may be.  I really can't comment on what others do or do not do in various areas of the world.

quote:

Is the D/s lifestyle inaccurately portrayed as a Superior/inferior lifestyle? /quote]

Excuse me?  I have never heard these terms used in reference to D/s ever.  You are the first I have ever run into who uses superior and inferior to refer to Dom/sub.  Why would a relationship based upon power exchange be subjected to the words superior or inferior?  Okay, have to admit that some think we are a bunch of nuts and probably look their noses down on us as freaks.  However, most of those have NO idea what it's all about anyway.  They just think we are those queer people who beat each other. 



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RE: Equality In the D/s Lifestyle - 2/14/2010 10:21:14 PM   
Lorenzo19


Posts: 237
Joined: 2/8/2010
Status: offline 		I coined the term Superior/inferior.

The girl said 'said she wanted equality outside the bedroom'. I infered from that that in the bedroom she had no equality. I simply translated that inequality as Superior vs. inferior. I had never thought of D/s as being unequal until she mentioned it.

(in reply to peppermint)
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RE: Equality In the D/s Lifestyle - 2/14/2010 10:31:39 PM   
Whiplashsmile4


Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline 		Lorenzo19,

Take with whatever works best for your relationship, for both you and her. There's no shame in it being Sexual only D/s with a DOM couple like structure outside the bedroom. No shame at all. If it's what works best for the relationship, value that above trying to squeeze into a label. A Dom couple or 50/50 relationship outside the bedroom does not make you somehow magically submissive or revoke your Dominant orientation label.

This lifestyle ain't about living up to a stereotype, it's rather about discovering yourself and how these things fit into your life and your relationship(s).. past, current or future.







_____________________________

Жизнь ума ебет.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUzJI4Palq0

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RE: Equality In the D/s Lifestyle - 2/14/2010 10:33:42 PM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorenzo19

I have been reading. Thanks for all the great input. You're all great writers.

You all are describing your very equal relationship in and out of the bedroom. That seems to be the norm (at least with people who write in forums).

One thing Elisabella said may have solved part of the puzzle. She mentioned "Autonomy". Perhaps the girl in the puzzle used the wrong word. She really wanted Autonomy outside of sexual relations. Starting to make sense to Me. That would make it Dom/Domme outside of sex? Or something like that.


Thank you and not quite what I meant.  I am equal in and out of the bedroom and I am unequal at all times too.  My personality is submissive and his is dominant.  My contributions to the relationship and household are x and his are y.  At the same time, we are always tending to those unequal parts to make them work together as seamlessly as possible for the well being of the other and the relationship as a whole.  Maybe that helps.

Autonomy is not at risk either as far as I am concerned.  He relies on me being and doing my part of things.  I'm not acting in any way out of the ordinary for me.  I am just being me and it happens to be the compliment to the he that he is.  I am running around in my own little world as is he.  It would be like saying I lose my own person by having a boss I answer to.  I am still me and my world is still rocking on it's own way because let's face it, I could always not answer to that boss anymore.  Ultimately, there is that choice of who to serve in life.  Some feel more choice than others, but in reality there is always that escape clause.  How can anyone lose autonomy when the things holding all the cards?

lovingpet

_____________________________

If you put your head into more, you'd have to put your back into less. ~Me

10 Fluffy pts.


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RE: Equality In the D/s Lifestyle - 2/15/2010 4:07:12 AM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: texangael

My slave is  my equal in that her needs are equal in importance, her desires are of equal relevance in the health of my house.  When her children are in my house their needs and feelings are of equal importance.

That is the equality that should be in any relationship.  The power dynamic may be unequal (and in mine it certainly is....I command she obeys), but the caring, the significance of each within the relationship, the importance of each to the other should absolutely be equal in stature.



Rockin response.

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RE: Equality In the D/s Lifestyle - 2/15/2010 5:34:25 AM   
GraciousLady


Posts: 529
Joined: 7/7/2009
Status: offline 		I think you are not realizing each of us has our own kink. Your kind is 24/7; her's is not. Just as you, and others, have made our decision that we live this lifestyle 24/7 she has made her decision that she only has the sexual aspect of it in her's. As far as being equal, well, since this lifestyle is totaly voluntary each person decided what they will do and not do. That's is equal is it not? A slave NEVER has to do something they do not want to do. And lastly, no, a submissive does not have to be inferior or made to feel humiliated. I myself do not find humiliating my subs pleasant so I don't do it. Our lifestyle is all about what each person likes and we are all free to find a partner that we enjoy being with.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorenzo19

Another thread set up a puzzle in My mind. It goes like this:

1. she explored the scene and realized she didn't like the 24/7 lifestyle
2. she enjoys being submissive during sex
3. but not outside of sex because she wants 'equality' at all other times.

This raises many questions in mind. A few here.

If it is Dom/sub in the bedroom... is it Dom/Dom other times? If not, what?
Our style is 24/7 but I always consider My sub equal to Me at all times and so does she. What is equality? (really, not the flip answer)
Is it common in D/s lifestyle to make the sub feel humiliated and inferior? Or is that the exception?
Is the D/s lifestyle inaccurately portrayed as a Superior/inferior lifestyle?

The 24/7 life works well for Us. Not asking for help here with My relationship. I'm just looking for stimulating ideas.

Thanks.


(in reply to Lorenzo19)
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RE: Equality In the D/s Lifestyle - 2/15/2010 5:46:04 AM   
sravaka


Posts: 314
Joined: 6/20/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorenzo19
One thing Elisabella said may have solved part of the puzzle. She mentioned "Autonomy". Perhaps the girl in the puzzle used the wrong word. She really wanted Autonomy outside of sexual relations. Starting to make sense to Me. That would make it Dom/Domme outside of sex? Or something like that.


I don't see why this would equate to dom/domme outside of sex.  More likely switch/switch?  Or simply "vanilla," which I tend to think encompasses some of all of the above.  (even vanilla relationships have power dynamics-- they just tend to be more fluid.)



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Miseries hold me fixed, and I would gladly cut these roots to become a floating plant. I would yield myself up utterly, if the inviting stream could be relied upon. --Ono no Komachi

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RE: Equality In the D/s Lifestyle - 2/15/2010 6:09:14 AM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sravaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorenzo19
One thing Elisabella said may have solved part of the puzzle. She mentioned "Autonomy". Perhaps the girl in the puzzle used the wrong word. She really wanted Autonomy outside of sexual relations. Starting to make sense to Me. That would make it Dom/Domme outside of sex? Or something like that.


I don't see why this would equate to dom/domme outside of sex.  More likely switch/switch?  Or simply "vanilla," which I tend to think encompasses some of all of the above.  (even vanilla relationships have power dynamics-- they just tend to be more fluid.)




D/s or Top/Bottom in the bedroom.

Boyfriend/Girlfriend outside it.

I don't understand why equality = dominant in your mind or that dominant would be the 'default' setting. To me, in the type of relationship you described, she would be a submissive in bed, and outside of the bedroom...just a person. Not a domme or a sub or a switch or any of that, just a person who is not giving up any power or control nor exerting power or control over another.

(in reply to sravaka)
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RE: Equality In the D/s Lifestyle - 2/15/2010 6:32:25 AM   
lucylucy


Posts: 612
Joined: 3/1/2009
Status: offline 		I agree wholeheartedly with what LovingPet, UniqueRaven, and DesFIP have said. I'll just add that humiliation is not at all about being inferior to me--it's all about humbling myself for him and making myself vulnerable for him.

_____________________________

“There are those who give with joy, & that joy is their reward.” Gibran / "Those who are willing to be vulnerable move among mysteries." Roethke / "Let the beauty we love be what we do. There are hundreds of ways to kneel & kiss the ground." Rumi

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RE: Equality In the D/s Lifestyle - 2/15/2010 6:46:01 AM   
StrongSpirit


Posts: 575
Joined: 4/10/2005
Status: offline 		Consider the statement "All Men Are Created Equal".

Do you think it means that no one is better at anything than anyone else?  That no one is smarter?  No one is faster?  No one a better singer?  Better Dancer? 

No.  Among other things it counters the belief that whatever particular thing you are good at is somehow superior on a grand scale to what other people are good at.  That is, All Men Are Created Equal means that just because I am smarter it doesn't mean I am inherently superior to anyone.

Part of the problem is that the words superior/inferior  have two different meanings that get confused. There is hierarchy (boss/worker) and then their is quality (better/worse).  I can have a boss without losing my equality to him.

Similarly, just because I am superior (dominant), it does not mean I am superior (better).

Some people confuse this.  They think because they are dominant they must never admit inferiority with regards to any skill or outside hierarchy. 

But as no single person is (or could be) all of:

1.  The Pope
2. The Dali Lama
3.  The President of the USA
4.  The richest man in the world
5.  The smartest man in the world
6.  The Head of the UN.
7.  The military head of NATO
8.  The best dancer/singer/actor/rock climber/painter/......

That means that all men are inferior (hierarchically and less skilled in SOME thing).   There is ALWAYS someone that is superior.  But all men are still created equal.

Similarly, I am still equal to any submissive, no matter that I would spank her if she claimed it in the bedroom.   Just because something is true doesn't mean it is appropriate to bring up at all times.


< Message edited by StrongSpirit -- 2/15/2010 6:49:18 AM >

(in reply to Elisabella)
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