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RE: What should a slave consider her worth to be? - 3/28/2006 5:50:42 PM   
LordKhensu


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quote:

The value of a slave or submissive is determined by their Dominant's PERCEPTION.


Excellent point and I love the rest of your analogy sharpwittedfl! A slave's value increases or decreases depending upon how well they perform whatever chore or task was required from them. If they were taken on as a pleasure slave, service slave or for whatever the reason then that service to their Master will determine their value. The more willing and enthusiastic they are about performing it helps immensely and thereby ensures their renewed value to the One.

That being said if the slave performs tasks even unwillingly but makes no complaint then they would most likely rise even higher in the Dominant's eyes. Again a matter of perception!



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It is just when you feel you know it all that you discover how little you really do!

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RE: What should a slave consider her worth to be? - 3/28/2006 5:56:12 PM   
PlayfulOne


Posts: 1047
Status: offline 		My little one is priceless to me, she might not be to anyone else, but she is perfect for me.

As far as a slave giving or a Master taking her freedom.  My little one will tell you in a hurry that I took her.  While you might argue that hse gave herslef willingly,   I took her.  I took her will, her heart, her soul and mind. 

K 

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RE: What should a slave consider her worth to be? - 3/28/2006 6:00:00 PM   
LadySeraphina


Posts: 931
Joined: 3/28/2006
From: Calgary, Canada
Status: offline 		I know this has largely been covered, but I always see the act of submission as taking one's personal power, placing it on a silver platter, bending on one's knee, and proffering it to one's Master or Mistress.  If that is so, then the more personal confidence and self-worth the submissive has, the more valuable their gift.  I feel that I am blessed by the gift my boy has given me, and I am probably more lavish with him than I ought to be because of it.  Which made me laugh when I saw the comment:
quote:

But MOST people in Ds relationships feel a slave should be treated in a very spoiled way.
 

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RE: What should a slave consider her worth to be? - 3/28/2006 6:46:53 PM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PookBaccus
I was lookin for an interesting topic, I've decided to create a thread.

What should a slave consider her worth to be? Should she consider herself as of value? Should she be permited to know herself as an individual, furthermore being allowed to contextualize value in her self imagery ? How is it best to promote or squelch the image of self? What do we try to create via Objectification?

Thanks for any interesting input,
PookBaccuss

Each person, no matter if they are slave, submissive, Master, Dominant or non-lifestyle, has Divine value. We each should KNOW that we are of value and we each should demand to know ourselves as an individual.

No one can squelch anything about you...if it seems that they do, you are merely fooling yourself. YOU are allowing that to happen.

Learning to let go of the self is something that we do for ourselves. It means dealing with FACE: Fear, Attachment, Control and Entitlement. When we can free outselves of these...we let go of the ego (self).

Heavy stuff, I know...and, it's much easier to give the advice than to do it, believe me. The book I'm currently reading is about this subject. It's called "Shadow Dance". http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1570624445/sr=8-1/qid=1143600161/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-7547039-0047856?%5Fencoding=UTF8

Fire


_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
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RE: What should a slave consider her worth to be? - 3/28/2006 6:58:36 PM   
fullofgrace


Posts: 395
Joined: 3/24/2006
From: fl, usa
Status: offline 		my Dominant does spoil me, i must admit! well, sometimes ;) He knows when not to, too, even if i may get a little too complacent...

...to be honest with you, i haven't really asked Him what He sees my worth as, because i am trying to get to a place within myself where i can find worth in myself without outside determination. i think every human being has inherent value and worth, and though my submissiveness is something that is so much a part of me that i could never lose it, i am human and i am a woman before i am a submissive. but i know based on His love for me that i have high worth to Him, and that my worth as a submissive is increasing as i learn more adequately to serve His needs and to not get caught up in my own neuroses.


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RE: What should a slave consider her worth to be? - 3/28/2006 9:17:41 PM   
BitaTruble


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From: Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble
Interesting. I know very few D/s couples which fit that description and for those who are the closest to Master and me, none of them do.

Celeste

I'm using spoiled as compared to recent historical slavery. 


Ah, ok. I thought of the word spoiled as it relates to Veruca Salt. ::chuckles:: Mollycoddled, pampered et al.

When compared to recent historical slavery, none of our close associates believe that slaves should be spoiled, but I will admit that I don't know what 'most' others do because I don't know most of them.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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RE: What should a slave consider her worth to be? - 3/29/2006 7:22:33 AM   
PookBaccus


Posts: 38
Joined: 3/22/2006
Status: offline 		Wonderful insights, thanks everyone! I want to especially thank sharpwittedfl for posting even tho she usually doesn't!
The relationship between Master slave seems fairly black and white.

I'd like to change the thread a bit and ask if there is a differance between Master/slave relationships as it pertains to the worth of a slave and Dom/sub relationships as it pertains to the sub.


So: What should a submissive consider her worth to be?

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RE: What should a slave consider her worth to be? - 3/29/2006 7:48:00 AM   
namasteguardian


Posts: 20
Joined: 6/29/2005
Status: offline 		I've read this thread three times now, and I'm still not sure exactly what we are talking about. It does seem to me that we are confusing terms. A slave's worth to their Master is a completely different thing from their self-worth. Or, at least it should be. Healthy self-worth comes from within; that's why it is called self-worth! No-one, Master or slave, Dom(me) or sub should expect someone else to determine their own worth. If you are looking for someone else to determine your worth for you, that is not a healthy place to be. For me, good subs know their worth, and know that that worth is high. It is an indication of their confidence in themselves, and who they are. Not everyone is in that place, obviously, and I see it as My duty as Dom to help My sub grow into her own self-worth. I don't do this because I am so noble, it's actually completely selfish; I find a sub whose self-worth is strong makes for a better sub!

Again, this is completely different from a sub or slave's worth to their Master (and vice versa). This aspect is an exterior function of the relationship. subs/slaves who please their Masters are going to be considered worthier (i.e. a "better" sub) than those who do not. Those Masters who enjoy their subs/slaves in a demanding and loving environment are going to be seen as more worthy, making for more satisfying relationships all the way around.

It has been my experience that many in our lifestyle mix these two aspects of worth up, or intermix them into one. I think there needs to be a lot more understanding that they are not the same thing. I know a lot of you will resist what I am saying. It is a hell of a lot more work to make your own self worth than it is to let someone else do it for you!

Namaste, Sir Dominic

"Life wasn't made to be easy, but it was meant to be fun!"

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RE: What should a slave consider her worth to be? - 3/29/2006 8:27:10 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		What an interesting point, and i tend to agree.  my value/worth to my Master is dependent on how well i please him.  my self worth is something he has helped me find along the way. 

However, a slave might attribute her own self worth according to how her Master values her.  If my Master thinks little of me, i may think little of myself because i have failed at my goal of pleasing him.   i think this is where the definitions can end up merged.

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RE: What should a slave consider her worth to be? - 3/29/2006 9:32:09 AM   
Kinkypupper


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From: Portland oregon
Status: offline 		More precious then their weight in Gold or Platinum

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RE: What should a slave consider her worth to be? - 3/29/2006 9:40:00 AM   
subjected2006


Posts: 248
Joined: 1/20/2006
Status: offline 		a slave is worth exactly what her Owner says she's worth.

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RE: What should a slave consider her worth to be? - 3/29/2006 10:02:05 AM   
HedonisticFemSub


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I think, no matter what the circumstance, a slave should understand their value as a slave.  Whether that is valued only as a breeder, only as a chore runner, only as a sexual toy, or only as a wife...the values need to be understood and agreed upon.

Am I the only one offended by the term  "'breeder?"

I can't imagine any person having a positive self-worth when the descriptive adjective is preceeded with  "only." 
IMO relationships (like most things in life )are not neutral.  They either build a partner up or tear them down. 

Is dignity elimination a requirment of a M/S dynamic?




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RE: What should a slave consider her worth to be? - 3/29/2006 10:07:37 AM   
valeca


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PookBaccus




So: What should a submissive consider her worth to be?


Ideally, s/he should consider it high.  If s/he considers it lacking, it will manifest itself in his/her appearance, task completion, mannerisms, service, posture, voice, etc.  And for the sake of clarity, 'considering it lacking' and recognizing there is always room for improvement are two very different concepts.

I am invaluable to Master.  I am not, however, irreplacable.

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~valeca, Owned and Operated by Loraith.

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RE: What should a slave consider her worth to be? - 3/29/2006 10:12:47 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HedonisticFemSub
Am I the only one offended by the term  "'breeder?"

Probably not, but that's your value.  There's also plenty NOT offended by it either. 
quote:


I can't imagine any person having a positive self-worth when the descriptive adjective is preceeded with  "only." 

One could say that you're lacking in imagination then.  I'm only 26- that could be perceived from a myriad of perspectives.  You're reacting to and projecting from whatever value system that you have. 

I'm not surprised that this is the reaction that you have, it was my intention to show that value can be determined from a myriad of perspectives, and sometimes in slavery that perspective is based solely on pragmatic use and availability of functions.
quote:


Is dignity elimination a requirment of a M/S dynamic?

Nope.

< Message edited by LuckyAlbatross -- 3/29/2006 10:17:13 AM >

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"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: What should a slave consider her worth to be? - 3/29/2006 12:07:13 PM   
HedonisticFemSub


Posts: 7
Joined: 11/5/2005
Status: offline 		Thank you for the response LuckyA.  I do like expanding my perspectives and apparently  yours and mine are different.

To those offended / not offended by 'breeder' I suggest the following.

1.  Women and men can both be 'breeders.'  (sires)
2.  Any categorization creates a glass ceiling and what is the point in that?

A text book explanation may suggest I am 'lacking in imagination' but please recognize that I am not reacting negatively.  I am suggesting that giving some power to a man is a beautiful thing.  Educated and expansive women recognize that time changes everything and without a positive self-definition a woman runs the risk of low self-esteem if "THE" relationship ends.

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RE: What should a slave consider her worth to be? - 3/29/2006 12:18:57 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HedonisticFemSub
A text book explanation may suggest I am 'lacking in imagination' but please recognize that I am not reacting negatively.  I am suggesting that giving some power to a man is a beautiful thing.  Educated and expansive women recognize that time changes everything and without a positive self-definition a woman runs the risk of low self-esteem if "THE" relationship ends.

And then you've got educated, smart, expansive, gorgeous, successful women like myself, femcar, and many others who really just love getting tossed down and used like dirt, objectified, humiliated, degraded, or simply put in their place as a slave to be used for whatever needs using, (ie taxes, cleaning, shoveling, laundry, etc).

Of course a person needs a positive self-definition.  But whore, cunt, breeder, "walking wreck" and other things can all be positive.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: What should a slave consider her worth to be? - 3/29/2006 12:27:09 PM   
namasteguardian


Posts: 20
Joined: 6/29/2005
Status: offline 		ownedgirlie said: However, a slave might attribute her own self worth according to how her Master values her. If my Master thinks little of me, i may think little of myself because i have failed at my goal of pleasing him. i think this is where the definitions can end up merged.

you are exactly correct that this is where the line between the two gets lost. My point is that if your Master thinks less of you, you should consider yourself less of a slave for not pleasing him. But that should be entirely separate from the value of your own self-worth.

subjected2006 said: a slave is worth exactly what her Owner says she's worth.

Respectfully, that is a copout. Remember when I said it is a hell of a lot more work to determine your own self worth than it is to let someone else do it for you? Apparently you would rather be told your worth than work it out for yourself. your choice, of course. All I am saying is that it ain't healthy.

Suppose your Master suddenly decides your worth is zero. If you entangle your own self-worth with your worth as a slave, you are going to be crushed by that burden. If you, on the other hand, have your own inner self-worth under the same circumstances, your failure will be as a slave, but your worth as a human being remains intact. Anyone who believes they have no worth except for what someone else gives them is in this lifestyle for the wrong reasons. Anyone who believes they have the right to determine another person's self-worth is in the lifestyle for the wrong reasons.

Decide someone's worth as a Master, or as a slave - that is fine. Determine someone's worth as a human being, that isn't. This is so important precisely because there are so many people in the lifestyle with self-worth issues, both Masters and slaves.

Namaste, Sir Dominic

"Life wasn't meant to be easy, but it is meant to be fun!"

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RE: What should a slave consider her worth to be? - 3/29/2006 12:39:07 PM   
HedonisticFemSub


Posts: 7
Joined: 11/5/2005
Status: offline 		Wearing many hats is a good thing LA.  Having a man determine what hats you are 'allowed' is a fate worse than death.

I like namasteguardian's point:

It is a hell of a lot more work to determine your own self worth than it is to let someone else do it. 
 
Bringing one's self-definition to any relationship will expand possibilities for the relationship itself.
 
 
 
 

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RE: What should a slave consider her worth to be? - 3/29/2006 1:01:33 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HedonisticFemSub
Bringing one's self-definition to any relationship will expand possibilities for the relationship itself.

But if you agree to allow another to have authority over what hats you will wear, then you have defined yourself. 

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: What should a slave consider her worth to be? - 3/29/2006 1:13:04 PM   
proudsub


Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline
quote:

So: What should a submissive consider her worth to be?


This sub is worth the value of the following:
housekeeper, maid, cook, gardner, pool girl, nanny, and lover. I doubt if Hubby sees it that way but if anything happened to me He would have to hire all of those except the lover part. 

_____________________________

proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan


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