RE: About the "Flood" ...

RE: About the "Flood" ... (Full Version)

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Raiikun -> RE: About the "Flood" ... (2/23/2010 10:19:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BLoved And I should be worshipping this god because ...? The answer from a Christian perspective, of course, is obvious. It's also obvious what your response to it will be. So, why are we wasting our time again?

Jeffff -> RE: About the "Flood" ... (2/23/2010 10:20:58 AM)
It's what Bob does.

Raiikun -> RE: About the "Flood" ... (2/23/2010 10:22:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BLoved So what you are saying is all those decent and honourable hindus who in good faith believe in their religion will be punted into the lake of fire by your god of love because none of them believe in your god. Strawman. Again. quote: Your parents are not gods with limitless power. Red herring, again. The point was one about love, not power.

BLoved -> RE: About the "Flood" ... (2/23/2010 10:22:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun Not really. Telling someone what you plan to do in the future is not exactly the same. The book of revelation is a vision of what is to come to pass. John is not being told what the plan is to be. He is being shown the future as it will happen, according to god's will. God created the universe, so he is responsible for it. He has the power to stop any event, so every event that happens, happens with his blessing. He has the power to change any person (he hardens the heart of Pharoah, thus providing an excuse for yet another plague on egypt), so anyone who doesn't believe in your god is acting in accordance with the wishes of your god. Anyone who doesn't believe gets deep fried. So, in acting in accordance with your god's wishes and not believing he exists I will be rewarded on judgment day by being drop-kicked into a lake of fire.

Kirata -> RE: About the "Flood" ... (2/23/2010 10:25:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun Assumptions like that and you accuse me of not being open minded? ;) That you've reinvented Christianity for yourself wasn't an assumption. [:D] But hey, no problem. Just don't imagine that what works for you is necessarily right in any absolute sense and that disagreement signifies a mind that is closed to the truth. K.

BLoved -> RE: About the "Flood" ... (2/23/2010 10:29:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata Or did you just decide to study the Bible and reinvent Christianity for yourself? Assumptions like that and you accuse me of not being open minded? ;) To accurately describe my journey would be far beyond the scope of this topic. If you really do care to know, rather than just trying to make a "Hah, gotcha!" point, I'd be happy to do my best elsewhere when there's time though. (And if that was a sincere question I apologize for assuming, but the wording did come across as a loaded "Gotcha!" one). Or you could have just answered the question. I've been participating in discussions about religion for almost forty years now. I was raised in the christian faith because my agnostic father wanted me well-versed on the dominant faith of my culture. There is a lot of good in the man, Jesus, a lot of wisdom about love which I respect. But there are a lot of people who have chosen to worship Paul, claiming that Paul spoke for Jesus. I reject that claim. Paul speaks of faith. Jesus spoke of works. "By their fruits will ye know them". I consider Paul a fraud. I consider Jesus a wise man who tried to teach his people about love, despite the fact they worshiped a war god. He failed.

Raiikun -> RE: About the "Flood" ... (2/23/2010 10:30:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BLoved He has the power to change any person (he hardens the heart of Pharoah, thus )providing an excuse for yet another plague on egypt There's some contention on this point. One thing that translators didn't understand about Hebrew is that there was a permissive tense. A lot of stuff that got translated as "God will smite you" actually should have read "God will have to allow you to be smitten". With some references of Pharoah hardening his own heart (See Exodus 8:15 and 32), it seems equally plausible that God might have known enough about Pharoah to know he would harden his heart. Is this the case? I can't say for certain. But there's certainly enough there that you can't say for a certainty that God "changed Pharoah by hardening his heart" either.

Raiikun -> RE: About the "Flood" ... (2/23/2010 10:34:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata But hey, no problem. Just don't imagine that what works for you is necessarily right in any absolute sense and that disagreement signifies a mind that is closed to the truth. K.[/font][/size] That's not what I'm contending. My accusation of his not being open minded, is in his insistence of repeating the same arguments, using logical fallacies, and ignoring anything that disagrees with him, only to repeat the same argument, much like he did in the other thread he started that got shut down. Hell, look at his signature. He asserts that anyone who doesn't believe in his viewpoints on love and BDSM is completely against love, despite many people telling him otherwise in the other thread. He just ignores it and keeps asserting. His way is the "Loving" way, everyone else is against love.

popeye1250 -> RE: About the "Flood" ... (2/23/2010 10:40:46 AM)
That story was written by humans not by God.

Raiikun -> RE: About the "Flood" ... (2/23/2010 10:41:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BLoved Paul speaks of faith. Jesus spoke of works. "By their fruits will ye know them". Paul also speaks of works, and Jesus of faith. They aren't mutually exclusive. (In fact, faith and works go quite hand in hand). Paul is the one that told of how Abraham's faith regarding Isaac was so strong, that he acted on it.

Raiikun -> RE: About the "Flood" ... (2/23/2010 10:46:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata That you've reinvented Christianity for yourself wasn't an assumption. [:D] Oh, btw, that's not what you said though. You asked if I "Just" reinvented Christianity for myself. That changes the meaning quite definately, and is something you very much assumed wrong. =)

BLoved -> RE: About the "Flood" ... (2/23/2010 10:48:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun quote: ORIGINAL: BLoved He has the power to change any person (he hardens the heart of Pharoah, thus )providing an excuse for yet another plague on egypt ... But there's certainly enough there that you can't say for a certainty that God "changed Pharoah by hardening his heart" either. Exodus 9:12 And the Lord hardened the heart of Pharoah, and he hearkened not unto them ... Exodus 10:20 But the Lord hardened Pharoah's heart, so that he would not let the children of Israel go. Exodus 10:27 But the Lord hardened Pharoah's heart, and he would not let them go. Obviously your god has no trouble messing with a person's ability to choose his own path. Who is to say my rejection of your god isn't the result of your god messing with me?

BLoved -> RE: About the "Flood" ... (2/23/2010 10:50:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 That story was written by humans not by God. It is still intended to teach us a lesson.

Raiikun -> RE: About the "Flood" ... (2/23/2010 10:53:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BLoved Obviously your god has no trouble messing with a person's ability to choose his own path. Who is to say my rejection of your god isn't the result of your god messing with me? Nice of you to cut out the part where I addressed that. quote: ORIGINAL: Part I said that was inconvenient to your point and thus got cut. There's some contention on this point. One thing that translators didn't understand about Hebrew is that there was a permissive tense. A lot of stuff that got translated as "God will smite you" actually should have read "God will have to allow you to be smitten". With some references of Pharoah hardening his own heart (See Exodus 8:15 and 32), it seems equally plausible that God might have known enough about Pharoah to know he would harden his heart.

Smutmonger -> RE: About the "Flood" ... (2/23/2010 10:58:18 AM)
The really amusing thing about Christanity is the fear trip involved. Heaven and hell. I am often asked.."What if you are wrong about there being no hell?" My usual response is-"It means I will have an eternity to fuck with you-since you sure aren't getting into heaven at the rate you are going-hypocrite."

BLoved -> RE: About the "Flood" ... (2/23/2010 11:01:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun quote: ORIGINAL: BLoved Paul speaks of faith. Jesus spoke of works. "By their fruits will ye know them". Paul also speaks of works, and Jesus of faith. They aren't mutually exclusive. (In fact, faith and works go quite hand in hand). Matthew 7:21, 24-27 The emphasis is on doing that which one is instructed to do. Faith is not enough. The young prince who wanted to be perfect, he was told to give all he had to the poor and to follow Jesus, and he went away instead. It was not enough to have faith in Jesus, one must follow in his footsteps.

BLoved -> RE: About the "Flood" ... (2/23/2010 11:03:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Raiikun Nice of you to cut out the part where I addressed that. You want me to place my faith in you rather than the words of the bible which I quoted? Are you claiming to have the authority of a Prophet?

BLoved -> RE: About the "Flood" ... (2/23/2010 11:09:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Smutmonger The really amusing thing about Christanity is the fear trip involved. Heaven and hell. I am often asked.."What if you are wrong about there being no hell?" My usual response is-"It means I will have an eternity to fuck with you-since you sure aren't getting into heaven at the rate you are going-hypocrite." If revelations is correct, my father, my wife and my son are all slated for the lake of fire. How likely is it I'm going to worship a god who decided to treat my family in that way?

thishereboi -> RE: About the "Flood" ... (2/23/2010 11:12:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BLoved quote: ORIGINAL: Smutmonger The really amusing thing about Christanity is the fear trip involved. Heaven and hell. I am often asked.."What if you are wrong about there being no hell?" My usual response is-"It means I will have an eternity to fuck with you-since you sure aren't getting into heaven at the rate you are going-hypocrite." If revelations is correct, my father, my wife and my son are all slated for the lake of fire. How likely is it I'm going to worship a god who decided to treat my family in that way? You are so right. You shouldn't. In fact I don't think you should even talk about him. Don't want all that negative energy clouding up your day[:)]

Raiikun -> RE: About the "Flood" ... (2/23/2010 11:34:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BLoved You want me to place my faith in you rather than the words of the bible which I quoted? Yet another strawman. I didn't suggest that at all.

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